Go Bruins! T.J. Leaf on Lakers radar?
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Vic5150
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Damn he just got hurt. Hopefully it's not serious.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
I still think UCLA deserves a 1 seed. I thought this was interesting and it shows why I think getting a 1 seed is so important (and why a 2 seed instead of a 3 is so important).

http://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html


UCLA moves up to #3 in AP Top 25. Gonzaga drops to #4.
Both would be #1's if the rankings stayed as they were.


Rankings are irrelevant to the seedings though. The committee had UCLA ranked 15th when the ranking in the polls was much higher.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject:

He sprained the ankle and won't return in this game.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject:

The media's "bracketology" experts serve a market need more than they need to be accurate.

They must draw in the viewers or retain viewers on TV, or get clicks online. They don't have to be right about Western teams as often as they must feature teams often enough where their viewership resides. Their success plan dictates that as long as they are interesting enough to the voracious viewer populations in Eastern and MidWest regions, it's mission accomplished.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Saw this comment from a UCLA fan who makes the point that Lunardi is basically rolling with RPI.

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Duke's RPI is 13th. Notre Dame's is 22nd. Here are the top 16 teams by RPI per ESPN, and their seeds in Lunardi's bracket in parens:

1. Villanova (1)
2. Kansas (1)
3. Florida (4)
4. UNC (1)
5. Oregon (2)
6. Louisville (2)
7. Baylor (2)
8. Kentucky (2)
9. Arizona (3)
10. Butler (3)
11. Gonzaga (1)
12. FSU (4)
13. Duke (3)
14. Cincinnati (5)
15. UCLA (3)
16. Virginia (4)

There are a couple of outliers in there - Florida at 4, Gonzaga at 1. But he's almost in lockstep with the RPI rankings.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
The media's "bracketology" experts serve a market need more than they need to be accurate.

They must draw in the viewers or retain viewers on TV, or get clicks online. They don't have to be right about Western teams as often as they must feature teams often enough where their viewership resides. Their success plan dictates that as long as they are interesting enough to the voracious viewer populations in Eastern and MidWest regions, it's mission accomplished.


Just saw Lunardi defend his opinion that UCLA deserves a #3 seed. It was some pretty blatant trolling.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
The media's "bracketology" experts serve a market need more than they need to be accurate.

They must draw in the viewers or retain viewers on TV, or get clicks online. They don't have to be right about Western teams as often as they must feature teams often enough where their viewership resides. Their success plan dictates that as long as they are interesting enough to the voracious viewer populations in Eastern and MidWest regions, it's mission accomplished.


Just saw Lunardi defend his opinion that UCLA deserves a #3 seed. It was some pretty blatant trolling.


He cites that the actual committee had them lower a few weeks ago. It's like he doesn't realize they beat all 3 teams they've lost to since then. I think he's getting a lot of clicks from angry UCLA fans and he's doubling down on that. I mean, we did both just fall for that and he cant possibly be that dumb
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Its only the Pac-12 tournament but UCLA is losing to Arizona by a pretty big margin right now....
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:46 am    Post subject:

I think we (UCLA) probably get a 3 seed now. It's hard to get around the fact that between the big Pac-12 trio of Oregon/Arizona/UCLA, UCLA finished in 3rd place in the regular season league standings and also failed to make the conference tournament final. As we know, the other 2 did. I think the winner of the Oregon/Arizona final has a 2 seed locked up. The loser could still possibly get a 2, but will most likely get a 3.

I think we're looking at three of the four #1 seeds as Villanova, Kansas, and Gonzaga for sure. I think that North Carolina's grip on a 1 seed is tenuous right now. Yes, the ACC is tougher than the SEC, but it's tough to overlook the fact that Kentucky went into Chapel Hill and beat the Tar Heels 103-100 back in December. Doesn't that have to hold serious weight when debating those 2 teams? If Kentucky wins the SEC Tournament, I'd have them as a 1 with UNC dropping to the 2 line.

In looking at Joe Lunardi's brackets, here are the 3 biggest issues I have. Perhaps there will be an update tomorrow...

--He still has Baylor as a 2 seed, which I vehemently disagree with. I know they have played a tough schedule, but the fact is that they have been a .500 team since about the middle of January (6-6 in their last 12), lost in their first game of their conference tournament, and its best road win all year is at Kansas State (whom they just lost to in their tournament).

--He has Notre Dame as a 5, which is absurd. They had the same 12-6 ACC record as FSU and Louisville, and were one game ahead of Duke's 11-7 mark. Now they've reached the final, where they will play Duke. I can't see them as anything lower than a 4 seed, and if they beat Duke, they are at least a 3 in my estimation.

--Speaking of Notre Dame in this vein, he has Florida St two seeds up, on the 3 line, even though they were both 12-6 in the ACC and even though Notre Dame just beat them in the ACC Tournament. That has to change.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject:

3 Seed in the South. It would've been better to stay West for a little home court advantage but oh well.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject:

UCLA's gotta go thru Kentucky and UNC just to get to the Final Four.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I think we (UCLA) probably get a 3 seed now. It's hard to get around the fact that between the big Pac-12 trio of Oregon/Arizona/UCLA, UCLA finished in 3rd place in the regular season league standings and also failed to make the conference tournament final.


UCLA went undefeated in nonconference play though with 2 wins over conference champions. Those other two teams didn't do that. And UCLA finished ranked #2 in the country when they were in 3rd place. The fact UCLA finished in 3rd just shows how good Oregon and Arizona are IMO. All 3 are capable of making the Final 4.

I still remember a year when 3 teams from the same conference all got #1 seeds.


Last edited by Steve007 on Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
UCLA's gotta go thru Kentucky and UNC just to get to the Final Four.


I don't like the draw unless Kentucky suffers an upset. Even Cincinnati is a team to worry about. Compare this to what Arizona and Gonzaga got and it's a huge difference IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject:

Health concerns loom for UCLA far more than the draw.

With TJ Leaf still somewhat reduced (medium grade ankle sprain) and Lonzo Ball's left hand thumb sprain, UCLA's two best players will be hard pressed to carry the Bruins in their usual manner. Getting into the second weekend or beyond almost wholly sits on how well Ball and Leaf feel, how well they perform.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
UCLA's gotta go thru Kentucky and UNC just to get to the Final Four.


I don't like the draw unless Kentucky suffers an upset. Even Cincinnati is a team to worry about. Compare this to what Arizona and Gonzaga got and it's a huge difference IMO.


I'm quite concerned with Cincinnati. They play a very disciplined defense and have players who can take advantage of defensively deficient Bryce and Leaf. If Bryce's cold shooting continues, he needs to be yanked because he'll be absolutely useless out there (though doubtful Steve will ever pull his son out).
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
UCLA's gotta go thru Kentucky and UNC just to get to the Final Four.


I don't like the draw unless Kentucky suffers an upset. Even Cincinnati is a team to worry about. Compare this to what Arizona and Gonzaga got and it's a huge difference IMO.


I'm quite concerned with Cincinnati. They play a very disciplined defense and have players who can take advantage of defensively deficient Bryce and Leaf. If Bryce's cold shooting continues, he needs to be yanked because he'll be absolutely useless out there (though doubtful Steve will ever pull his son out).


Steve pulls Bryce fairly often, that's not an issue. And Hamilton is as bad if not worse defensively so whoever isn't shooting the ball well should sit some, not just Bryce. Holiday is the guy who needs to start playing better IMO, he's struggled for a while now.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject:

If Alford leaves for Indiana, UCLA fans will regret criticizing him so much. I'm a UCLA fan and I wouldn't even blame him for leaving for Indiana. Bruins fans need to start to understand John wooden isn't coming back and holding coaches to that standard year after year is ridiculous.

Steve don't leave man, you got a good thing going and will win over the boosters who refuse to give you credit soon enough!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
If Alford leaves for Indiana, UCLA fans will regret criticizing him so much. I'm a UCLA fan and I wouldn't even blame him for leaving for Indiana. Bruins fans need to start to understand John wooden isn't coming back and holding coaches to that standard year after year is ridiculous.

Steve don't leave man, you got a good thing going and will win over the boosters who refuse to give you credit soon enough!


He built an incredible roster this year. I am a SDSU Fan and we owned California for 5 years but not now, UCLA is back and USC is on the rise big time also while SDSU is trending the wrong direction.

I wouldn't want to lose Alford if I was UCLA and how about his son as one of the top UCLA scorers of all time? That is impressive, he is a good player.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
If Alford leaves for Indiana, UCLA fans will regret criticizing him so much. I'm a UCLA fan and I wouldn't even blame him for leaving for Indiana. Bruins fans need to start to understand John wooden isn't coming back and holding coaches to that standard year after year is ridiculous.

Steve don't leave man, you got a good thing going and will win over the boosters who refuse to give you credit soon enough!


He built an incredible roster this year. I am a SDSU Fan and we owned California for 5 years but not now, UCLA is back and USC is on the rise big time also while SDSU is trending the wrong direction.

I wouldn't want to lose Alford if I was UCLA and how about his son as one of the top UCLA scorers of all time? That is impressive, he is a good player.


What people don't realize is that great high school players will come to UCLA regardless. It's the location, name, and history. I have no doubt he will not be missed. The Ball brothers would've came regardless of who is the coach simply due to locale. If Alford leaves, and I hope he does, all UCLA will need to do is pickup some other, hopefully better coach, and that coach will still get the 5 stars through the door. Howland did it, even Lavin did it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
If Alford leaves for Indiana, UCLA fans will regret criticizing him so much. I'm a UCLA fan and I wouldn't even blame him for leaving for Indiana. Bruins fans need to start to understand John wooden isn't coming back and holding coaches to that standard year after year is ridiculous.

Steve don't leave man, you got a good thing going and will win over the boosters who refuse to give you credit soon enough!


He built an incredible roster this year. I am a SDSU Fan and we owned California for 5 years but not now, UCLA is back and USC is on the rise big time also while SDSU is trending the wrong direction.

I wouldn't want to lose Alford if I was UCLA and how about his son as one of the top UCLA scorers of all time? That is impressive, he is a good player.


What people don't realize is that great high school players will come to UCLA regardless. It's the location, name, and history. I have no doubt he will not be missed. The Ball brothers would've came regardless of who is the coach simply due to locale. If Alford leaves, and I hope he does, all UCLA will need to do is pickup some other, hopefully better coach, and that coach will still get the 5 stars through the door. Howland did it, even Lavin did it.


Alford is a great offensive coach. Recruiting isn't even his best quality and his style of play is extremely appealing to local high school players. Getting a "hopefully better coach" won't be easy. He's gone to 3 sweet sixteens in 4 years, he's been successful whether or not you and other UCLA fans want to admit it.

He's won every where that he has been. He is currently the coach of the most prestigious basketball school in America and has another historic school begging him to be there coach. He must be doing something right. People who understand the game think he's a high quality coach. Rich boosters who don't know jack and search for reasons to complain about UCLA not reaching outlandish expectations are the ones who don't like him. I'm gonna side with all the basketball people who consider him a great coach and actually have the credentials to make a judgement.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject:

UCLA will have no problems getting recruits, its putting together a winning team that is the problem. Even during the program's lean years they still had future NBA all star talent on their rosters.

You probably don't have to worry about the other 2 Ball brothers as well, they will be going to UCLA.
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They're going to continue to build it at UCLA, too, even if Alford returns to his Indiana Hoosier home. The Ball patriarch said he loves Alford, and Alford has thrown roses at the old man's feet, too. But as far as LiAngelo and LaMelo are concerned, LaVar said, "We're going to stick with UCLA even if you put Bobo the Clown in as coach."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18974996/lavar-ball-not-going-stop-talking-lonzo-ball-brothers-the-family-business
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
UCLA will have no problems getting recruits, its putting together a winning team that is the problem. Even during the program's lean years they still had future NBA all star talent on their rosters.

You probably don't have to worry about the other 2 Ball brothers as well, they will be going to UCLA.
Quote:
They're going to continue to build it at UCLA, too, even if Alford returns to his Indiana Hoosier home. The Ball patriarch said he loves Alford, and Alford has thrown roses at the old man's feet, too. But as far as LiAngelo and LaMelo are concerned, LaVar said, "We're going to stick with UCLA even if you put Bobo the Clown in as coach."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18974996/lavar-ball-not-going-stop-talking-lonzo-ball-brothers-the-family-business


Bobo the Clown could probably teach better defense and would utilize Bryce the way he should be. As a bench offensive guy ala John Paxson.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
rwongega wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
If Alford leaves for Indiana, UCLA fans will regret criticizing him so much. I'm a UCLA fan and I wouldn't even blame him for leaving for Indiana. Bruins fans need to start to understand John wooden isn't coming back and holding coaches to that standard year after year is ridiculous.

Steve don't leave man, you got a good thing going and will win over the boosters who refuse to give you credit soon enough!


He built an incredible roster this year. I am a SDSU Fan and we owned California for 5 years but not now, UCLA is back and USC is on the rise big time also while SDSU is trending the wrong direction.

I wouldn't want to lose Alford if I was UCLA and how about his son as one of the top UCLA scorers of all time? That is impressive, he is a good player.


What people don't realize is that great high school players will come to UCLA regardless. It's the location, name, and history. I have no doubt he will not be missed. The Ball brothers would've came regardless of who is the coach simply due to locale. If Alford leaves, and I hope he does, all UCLA will need to do is pickup some other, hopefully better coach, and that coach will still get the 5 stars through the door. Howland did it, even Lavin did it.


Alford is a great offensive coach. Recruiting isn't even his best quality and his style of play is extremely appealing to local high school players. Getting a "hopefully better coach" won't be easy. He's gone to 3 sweet sixteens in 4 years, he's been successful whether or not you and other UCLA fans want to admit it.

He's won every where that he has been. He is currently the coach of the most prestigious basketball school in America and has another historic school begging him to be there coach. He must be doing something right. People who understand the game think he's a high quality coach. Rich boosters who don't know jack and search for reasons to complain about UCLA not reaching outlandish expectations are the ones who don't like him. I'm gonna side with all the basketball people who consider him a great coach and actually have the credentials to make a judgement.

I agree with you. I've watched since Wooden's '70 teams. Gene Bartow was highly criticized for losing 9 games in 2 seasons, so he left. After 2 years, former assistant Gary Cunningham couldn't handle the pressure of not being Wooden. Larry Brown's 1980 finals team was 22-10 the season he lost the finals. Then we suffered through NIT level tears with Hazzard, Farmer, and a few other years until winning 20 years later.

22 more years after the only championship without Wooden, the program seems to be moving in the right direction. If ungrateful, near sighted people motivate Alford to leave, especially if they win a championship, the foolish ones who drove him away will make everyone else regret it. I don't need to have dinner with their family, I just want championship basketball.

Don't confuse getting a top recruit with top recruting classes. It's why Duke and Kentucky are at or near the top every year, despite the age of "one and done." UCLA doesn't automatically attract top recruiting classes nationally (next year's is #2 so far and you can expect to lose the top fwd recruit, Kris Wilkes). We conveniently forget when they relied on and or hoped guys like Reeves Nelson, Mike Moser, and the Wear twins were the best on their squad. Your best players after '95's championship were Baron (2 yrs), Westbrook (2 yrs) , and Love (1 year), but they lacked sufficient championship quality players around them. Meantime, this was the 1st squad completely recruited by Alford and it's not just Ball making a major difference. If Leaf hadn't decommitted from Arizona, this team wouldn't be nearly as good.

I don't understand the thinking. Are people spoiled, blind, or just too hateful to see how foolish they are? I'm amazed and ashamed to be associated with them.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
rwongega wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
If Alford leaves for Indiana, UCLA fans will regret criticizing him so much. I'm a UCLA fan and I wouldn't even blame him for leaving for Indiana. Bruins fans need to start to understand John wooden isn't coming back and holding coaches to that standard year after year is ridiculous.

Steve don't leave man, you got a good thing going and will win over the boosters who refuse to give you credit soon enough!


He built an incredible roster this year. I am a SDSU Fan and we owned California for 5 years but not now, UCLA is back and USC is on the rise big time also while SDSU is trending the wrong direction.

I wouldn't want to lose Alford if I was UCLA and how about his son as one of the top UCLA scorers of all time? That is impressive, he is a good player.


What people don't realize is that great high school players will come to UCLA regardless. It's the location, name, and history. I have no doubt he will not be missed. The Ball brothers would've came regardless of who is the coach simply due to locale. If Alford leaves, and I hope he does, all UCLA will need to do is pickup some other, hopefully better coach, and that coach will still get the 5 stars through the door. Howland did it, even Lavin did it.


Alford is a great offensive coach. Recruiting isn't even his best quality and his style of play is extremely appealing to local high school players. Getting a "hopefully better coach" won't be easy. He's gone to 3 sweet sixteens in 4 years, he's been successful whether or not you and other UCLA fans want to admit it.

He's won every where that he has been. He is currently the coach of the most prestigious basketball school in America and has another historic school begging him to be there coach. He must be doing something right. People who understand the game think he's a high quality coach. Rich boosters who don't know jack and search for reasons to complain about UCLA not reaching outlandish expectations are the ones who don't like him. I'm gonna side with all the basketball people who consider him a great coach and actually have the credentials to make a judgement.

I agree with you. I've watched since Wooden's '70 teams. Gene Bartow was highly criticized for losing 9 games in 2 seasons, so he left. After 2 years, former assistant Gary Cunningham couldn't handle the pressure of not being Wooden. Larry Brown's 1980 finals team was 22-10 the season he lost the finals. Then we suffered through NIT level tears with Hazzard, Farmer, and a few other years until winning 20 years later.

22 more years after the only championship without Wooden, the program seems to be moving in the right direction. If ungrateful, near sighted people motivate Alford to leave, especially if they win a championship, the foolish ones who drove him away will make everyone else regret it. I don't need to have dinner with their family, I just want championship basketball.

Don't confuse getting a top recruit with top recruting classes. It's why Duke and Kentucky are at or near the top every year, despite the age of "one and done." UCLA doesn't automatically attract top recruiting classes nationally (next year's is #2 so far and you can expect to lose the top fwd recruit, Kris Wilkes). We conveniently forget when they relied on and or hoped guys like Reeves Nelson, Mike Moser, and the Wear twins were the best on their squad. Your best players after '95's championship were Baron (2 yrs), Westbrook (2 yrs) , and Love (1 year), but they lacked sufficient championship quality players around them. Meantime, this was the 1st squad completely recruited by Alford and it's not just Ball making a major difference. If Leaf hadn't decommitted from Arizona, this team wouldn't be nearly as good.

I don't understand the thinking. Are people spoiled, blind, or just too hateful to see how foolish they are? I'm amazed and ashamed to be associated with them.


Preach, I won't be mad at Alford at all if he leaves. He's gonna go from a place with a bunch of ignorant fans who want him gone for no good reason to a place where he'll be a god. And yea Wilkes would be a Hoosier next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
UCLA will have no problems getting recruits, its putting together a winning team that is the problem. Even during the program's lean years they still had future NBA all star talent on their rosters.

You probably don't have to worry about the other 2 Ball brothers as well, they will be going to UCLA.
Quote:
They're going to continue to build it at UCLA, too, even if Alford returns to his Indiana Hoosier home. The Ball patriarch said he loves Alford, and Alford has thrown roses at the old man's feet, too. But as far as LiAngelo and LaMelo are concerned, LaVar said, "We're going to stick with UCLA even if you put Bobo the Clown in as coach."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18974996/lavar-ball-not-going-stop-talking-lonzo-ball-brothers-the-family-business


Bobo the Clown could probably teach better defense and would utilize Bryce the way he should be. As a bench offensive guy ala John Paxson.


What do you think is schematically wrong with his defensive principles?

This is typical UCLA fan stuff right here. Acting like you know what you are talking about without actually having any knowledge of what he's doing.
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