Does anyone think David Stern is the main reason why Mitch and Jim got fired?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
misterrunon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1904

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject:

They got fired because of their unforgivable mistakes - Hiring Mike Brown, waving Pau around trade talks (which disgruntled him), and eventually letting his contract expire while getting nothing out of it. And then the last straw, at least for me, was signing Deng and Mozgov to 4 years, and essentially bidding against themselves.

Jim Buss is also hard-headed and petulant. If Kevin Ding's article is true, he has cost us some really good opportunities (re-signing Bazemore and losing out on signing Whiteside because Jim drafted Sacre and was infatuated with him - he's the reason why Sacre took a roster spot for 4 years.

And had he listened to Dr. Buss's request to trade Bynum to get CP3, we would have had no Dwight Howard and owed NO picks to the Suns or Magic (why trade for Nash if you have CP3?). If they truly understood the new CBA, they would not have offered their first rounders with such little protection.

Then we move on to how slow they were with adapting with Analytics, and the lack of relationships that Mitch and Jim had around the league. Remember when Lamarcus Aldridge spoke on his meeting with the FO, and how surprised at how incompetent they were? That reflected on Mitch and Jim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
E_Wulf420
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 1051
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
E_Wulf420 wrote:
Veto trade > Achilles > Present
If it wasn't for that trade, kobe never tears his Achilles and he would STILL be playing right now averaging about 20-23 points alongside CP3. It's a shame that deal never went through.

this chain of thoughts is the one i try not to think about the most.

If that trade goes down, Lakers win a title or two by 2013. Try to "Reload" the next two years. Then they Definitely would've made a splash for a 3rd or 4th star player in summer 2016 with the rise of the cap. Last but not least, Kobe would be chasing Kareem for most points also trying to surpass MJ and get his 7th ring, retiring at years end averaging 22/5. It's a shame that deal never went through, the possibilities are endless.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
KobeDunk wrote:
we would have had a potential lineup of :

Howard (Bynum trade)
D.West (free agent)
Metta
Kobe
CP3 (VETOed Trade)

I would think this could have made a major difference in the history of the franchise and NBA since 2011
anyone saying otherwise is just someone that was on the "fire jim" or "fire mitch" bandwagon. they never really gave serious thought to how much the nixed deal destroyed the lakers present back then and their future til now. People try to say well..so...that was years ago by now things should have changed. I ask. How so. No one ever has that answer.

I know. I do my best to keep a positive outlook and hope for the best in the future, but why do I have to ignore how severe that event was? I don't remember the details, but just to compare how teams and the league overall reacts to big moves...remember when pau came here out of the blue? Nobody expected that, and i forgot what the spurs did, but they definitely freaked out and did some major moves almost immediately after, and maybe a couple other teams also. It was like, oh s---, now pau is with kobe...and odom and bynum, oh damn.
the reason people CHOSE to blame jim and some blamed mitch as well. shoot, some blamed vitti for the injury bugs that we never had up until it got completely crazy.

thats because people in general need to find a person they can see to blame. they couldn't see dan gilbert, jordan, mark cuban every day. and they couldn't see stern everyday. but they could see the lakers and they know who runs the lakers. since jeanie wasnt in charge of basketball. who was? jim, mitch, and vitti was the guy who was supposed to keep guys healthy. so all 3 of those guys caught hell post nixed deal.

people still fail to realize the reason we could not move gasol for anything worth a darn was because we already showed our hand once the deal was nixed. now the world knew we needed to move a disgruntled/hurt gasol.

just like odom losing his mind after the trade didnt go thru. we had to hurry up and get that guy out of here. while every team knew it. what do you think happens when you play cards and everyone can see your hand now?

On top of the fact we did that deal right when the new "small market" friendly cba was signed. that was the smartest thing to do. was to pull that sneak move right then and get that last good deal for a big market team to pair 3 greats for one last run (cp3, kobe, dwight(since drew's knees were bad.)

Truth is if you want to blame someone blame the injury bug too. Who knew bynum's knees would go out like that? No one. only those who knew his teammates would crash into his knees twice giving him two severe injuries. Do you guys realize bynum was our future? we would've never had to deal for dwight. it would've been cp3 only. or even when that deal went bad we could've flipped gasol and Lo for someone else. or even chump change and been okay. then kobe goes down with severe injury after severe injury back to back to back. good grief.

think about the chain of events.

our future in bynum died with constant knee injuries. so we had to trade him for the next best thing. the current #1 big in the nba who just had back issues and wanted. we were smart enough to get rid of gasol and odom before they got to old to play well enough to win it all. not get into the offs or get to the wcf's. but win it all. they were at that point where they were about to be on the downside of their careers. we saw it vs dallas. we saw it since with lamar when he left. we saw it with gasol. the little defense he had as a laker was completely gone once he left. sure he can score in the post sometimes. but he aint the gasol we once loved.

not only did bynum's knees go to hell and not only did old man kobe fall off a cliff due to injuries. but then every team we put together got hurt like crazy. nash with the fluke injury that ended his career. most dont remember he was still an allstar the year prior. so dont say 'but i knew he was going to get old that year." lies.

I have never in my life watching the nba seen a team go thru what we have. on top of the fact we just won multiple rings prior to all of this happening. and that team was just on the downside of things. once you get to the finals 3 or 4 times in a row. guys start aging out. why do you think bron jumped ship. he already knew. wade is aging with all these finals appearances. and so is the supporting cast.

so all of the worse case scenarios popped up all at once and people decided to place the blame on those they could see jim, mitch, and vitti, and even kobe's contract.

kobe was retired, vitti was retired. so it was all on jim and mitch.

they did what you have to do in this new cba. Bottom out. people talka bout how we botched the conversation with aldridge. the guy was never coming anyway. so who cares.
melo was never coming. so again...who cares.

non of those fa's were coming and if they did we would be stuck in the playoffs with a good team that was never going to be good enough to win it all. because no one is chasing melo for a title. no one is chasing lamarcus for a title either. the guys they follow are the new guys. KD, maybe paul george, and bron. if steph ran some where they might follow him too. thats about it. the rest of these guys are not attracting people. they are aging guys that couldnt do it with their own teams(melo in his prime couldnt get er done and neither could aldridge. that was a blessing in disguise that non of those guys wanted to come here. thank goodness. so we could bottom out like all teams have to in the new cba. Unless you get lucky like the spurs and you had a young team with duncan, parker, and gino grow together. then you pick up KL and he never gets severely injured(bynum anyone). so he can be the future you build around when the old guys retire. non of those guys got severely injured. thats how the spurs kept it going for so long.

now here we are, with a nice young core and possible another top pick. and watch magic get all the credit for the "NEW LAKERS" once the kids grow up. lol, and i like magic. all of a sudden everyone is talking patience. lol. same team we just had with mitch and jim. now its ok to be patient.


if we turn things around, then he should get all the credit. if all of the sudden we're being more successful at getting FAs, then should Jim Buss get the credit? if we're terrible the next few years, I'll rip Magic a new one just like I did with Jim. We need to be competing for a playoff berth next year, otherwise I'll be disappointed with Magic.

and how do you know LMA was never coming here? is it because it's easy for you to say that to shift blame off Buss (both of them)? Durant was never coming here because he never even met with us. LMA we had a chance.

LMA even said he liked Kobe's presentation but didn't like the rest of the FO's presentation. Not saying we were super close to getting LMA, but he met with us and Kobe. We had a chance there. We're so unattractive that some FA won't even meet with us. That's a bad sign. That falls on both Jim and Jeanie. One of them had to go since they were bickering and had their head up their butt.

We made bad FA signings in Deng and Mozgov. Why? Just to make a move? Any clown could see coming a mile away those were bad signings. What do you have to say about those 2 signings? Were they a good move? Why or why not?

It ended up being Jim getting fired. Let's see what Magic and Rob can do. I personally think it will be hit or miss. Since Magic and Rob may be in over their heads. Who knows.

understand what i'm saying here. and let me give the disclaimer. I am a huge magic homer. always have been, always will be. as much as i love the mamba. Magic will always be my favorite laker. Always. and Yes i believe he will do a great job at this position.

With that said. I do know that the moment we start balling he will get all of the credit without any going to the guys that got the young guns to begin with.

The talent that magic inherited was not his. it was mitch's/jim's. These kids will grow up into adult ballers. at worse they will all be solid contributors on a nba team. Magic can't take credit if guys are at worse as good of an asset as say Lou Williams. Magic didn't draft these guys. We dont know what magic would've done after dealing with all the above stuff i mentioned. He may have rushed into things and maybe his ways with FA would've got us melo or alrdidge. lets say that happened.

Do you realize that would make us a 6 to 8 seed in the west AT BEST. and that is limbo. No thank you. NO team is going to give you an upstart young talented about to be a star or actual star player for an aging melo or aging aldridge. so you would be stuck with these types of FA's. stuck meaning you're too good to suck enough to get a high pick, yet you're not good enough to beat OKC (pre trade) or Gstate(pre or post trade) nor would you beat the cavs.

Mitch and Jim were part of attempting to reload and got turned down by the nba in a way that has never happened to any other team before. all the while the cba keeps changing to hinder the laker type of large market teams. this is not the fault of mitch and jim. How many GM's basketball operations guys would've been humble enough to realize its time to bottom out? THink about that for a moment. Look at Dallas all these years. they smacked us that one time and they've been in limbo ever since.

Now it looks as if they are thinking about calling it a day and bottoming out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HOF Rookie
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject:

I'll say the opposite of what most are saying. The CP3 trade saves their jobs.

That one really good decision essentially keeps them from making a bunch of bad decisions (Nash trade, deng contract, mozgov contract, coaching turnstile, self imposed deadline)

I also think they buy additional goodwill from the fans, and there's less pressure from jeannie to make a change.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
I'll say the opposite of what most are saying. The CP3 trade saves their jobs.

That one really good decision essentially keeps them from making a bunch of bad decisions (Nash trade, deng contract, mozgov contract, coaching turnstile, self imposed deadline)

I also think they buy additional goodwill from the fans, and there's less pressure from jeannie to make a change.
not buying this logic at all.

the same people that put together the cp3 deal put together the dwight deal. which was about to save the lakers a ton of cash on top of get us the best pg in the nba and the best center to pair with the best sg in the league.

the nash trade was an excellent comeback trade to the devastation of the cp3 nixed deal. nash was an allstar the year prior.

luke walton wasnt even seen as a legit option when we hired mike brown, mda, or even bscott. time had to take place before luke was ready. he had a chance to be head coach for half the season or so due to kerr's back issues. all those things had to lineup for us to get our perfect fit with the youth coach.

name a coach that was a NBA coach that would've fit better than luke has. You can't. And since you can't. that means there was no other coach to have.

The other coaches were here for the vets early on.

No phil. meant who were the next two best coaches available. one of those guys retired the year or so after mike brown became our head coach. rick adelman. so he was already saying goodbye to the game. no need for a coach that was already tired.

mda was the best coach available when we got him. Byron scott was here for the tank job and to hopefully give the team a hard nose approach since we lacked that with mda.

but truth scott and mda couldnt do but so much with the kids and the injuries.

the deng and mos contracts were mostly about the new cba where they had to pay SOMEONE a ton of cash that didnt deserve it since we have so many guys on rookie contracts on the team. and their were no better players available that was coming here. deng was a vet to show the kids how to be a solid vet. not many guys that we call a solid vet that was available and willing to play 2nd fiddle to the kids once we got close to the allstar break.

Mos was/is actually happy for BIg Zubac. He has helped Zu along very well if you ask me. another solid vet role guy thats also a champion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
I'll say the opposite of what most are saying. The CP3 trade saves their jobs.

That one really good decision essentially keeps them from making a bunch of bad decisions (Nash trade, deng contract, mozgov contract, coaching turnstile, self imposed deadline)

I also think they buy additional goodwill from the fans, and there's less pressure from jeannie to make a change.
not buying this logic at all.

the same people that put together the cp3 deal put together the dwight deal. which was about to save the lakers a ton of cash on top of get us the best pg in the nba and the best center to pair with the best sg in the league.

the nash trade was an excellent comeback trade to the devastation of the cp3 nixed deal. nash was an allstar the year prior.

luke walton wasnt even seen as a legit option when we hired mike brown, mda, or even bscott. time had to take place before luke was ready. he had a chance to be head coach for half the season or so due to kerr's back issues. all those things had to lineup for us to get our perfect fit with the youth coach.

name a coach that was a NBA coach that would've fit better than luke has. You can't. And since you can't. that means there was no other coach to have.

The other coaches were here for the vets early on.

No phil. meant who were the next two best coaches available. one of those guys retired the year or so after mike brown became our head coach. rick adelman. so he was already saying goodbye to the game. no need for a coach that was already tired.

mda was the best coach available when we got him. Byron scott was here for the tank job and to hopefully give the team a hard nose approach since we lacked that with mda.

but truth scott and mda couldnt do but so much with the kids and the injuries.

the deng and mos contracts were mostly about the new cba where they had to pay SOMEONE a ton of cash that didnt deserve it since we have so many guys on rookie contracts on the team. and their were no better players available that was coming here. deng was a vet to show the kids how to be a solid vet. not many guys that we call a solid vet that was available and willing to play 2nd fiddle to the kids once we got close to the allstar break.

Mos was/is actually happy for BIg Zubac. He has helped Zu along very well if you ask me. another solid vet role guy thats also a champion.

splash mountain, you are speaking truth, no doubt. I mean, we can't know for sure until FO says otherwise, and even then sometimes. But at least what you are saying is sound and reasonable. I don't know how some of these other ideas remotely make sense.
just as a sidenote, in the recent statement from the fo, they were talking about how we only missed the playoffs twice in 30 years, you know that whole thing. I wish they would say that differently...it's not that we always made the playoffs, big whoop. I don't think laker fans care that much about making playoffs. The thing to say is that we made the Finals 15 times...every other year basically. I'd rather they focus more on that factoid. Or that we won in 10 times in 30 years, or once every 3 years. Forget the playoffs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Frank The Tank
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:


what's weird is that Jerry Buss during the CBA before the veto was vocally in favor of parity, which has always seemed strange to me. WHy would he be? He'd have to be a saint of a nice guy to really be for it, and he could be, but it's weird. Because there was only one team dominating, the Lakers, so parity would have meant ( and has meant, as we can see now) in the destruction of ALL the magnificent Laker momentum. SO I never understood that.


One of the reasons Jerry Buss supported that CBA deal was to go all in and win one last championship for Kobe.

At that point, the Lakers were still one of the top teams and you still had prime Kobe. But, that window was closing with only a year or two left for prime Kobe.

And, Buss didn't want to waste that window and a prime Kobe with a long, protracted lockout. The CBA would hurt the Lakers in the long run, but not so much for the next few seasons when the Lakers still had prime Kobe.

So, the expected hit the Lakers would take with the CBA was going to happen after our championship window had closed and we no longer had prime Kobe.

It was like the Lakers going all in and trading away all those draft picks for Steve Nash and Dwight Howard where we sacrificed our future in order to win Kobe one last championship.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2800

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject:

On the contrary. It actually gave them a crutch to lean on. It's too bad we didn't get to see how much a failure the Paul signing would have been.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject:

Frank The Tank wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:


what's weird is that Jerry Buss during the CBA before the veto was vocally in favor of parity, which has always seemed strange to me. WHy would he be? He'd have to be a saint of a nice guy to really be for it, and he could be, but it's weird. Because there was only one team dominating, the Lakers, so parity would have meant ( and has meant, as we can see now) in the destruction of ALL the magnificent Laker momentum. SO I never understood that.


One of the reasons Jerry Buss supported that CBA deal was to go all in and win one last championship for Kobe.

At that point, the Lakers were still one of the top teams and you still had prime Kobe. But, that window was closing with only a year or two left for prime Kobe.

And, Buss didn't want to waste that window and a prime Kobe with a long, protracted lockout. The CBA would hurt the Lakers in the long run, but not so much for the next few seasons when the Lakers still had prime Kobe.

So, the expected hit the Lakers would take with the CBA was going to happen after our championship window had closed and we no longer had prime Kobe.

It was like the Lakers going all in and trading away all those draft picks for Steve Nash and Dwight Howard where we sacrificed our future in order to win Kobe one last championship.

what you're saying kind of makes sense, except for one part. WHen the Dr was vocally supporting the CBA, he must have at the same time been working on that CP3 deal (and possibly dwight). The way I see that is he's going around publicly in support of the CBA and all that parity stuff, knowing full well it is worse for the Lakers that way, but he still had that deal locked up at the same time.

so doing it to shorten the lockout makes sense. But Nash and dwight weren't really in the picture I don't think, as that was an emergency plan B after the CBA and veto had taken place already.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Frank The Tank
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

what you're saying kind of makes sense, except for one part. WHen the Dr was vocally supporting the CBA, he must have at the same time been working on that CP3 deal (and possibly dwight). The way I see that is he's going around publicly in support of the CBA and all that parity stuff, knowing full well it is worse for the Lakers that way, but he still had that deal locked up at the same time.

so doing it to shorten the lockout makes sense. But Nash and dwight weren't really in the picture I don't think, as that was an emergency plan B after the CBA and veto had taken place already.


I agree that Buss probably didn't have Nash and Howard in mind when he agreed to the CBA.

I only brought Nash and Dwight Howard that up as another, separate example of the Lakers mindset as to why Jerry Buss would have been in favor of that CBA- We've got to win one more championship for Kobe, and worry about the consequences later on.

Jerry Buss could have supported greater parity in the NBA, where the Lakers couldn't outspend other teams as much, and still want the Lakers to win as much as possible. When people talk about parity, its usually in reference to money.

Jerry Buss knew that the CBA would limit what moves we could make after Kobe's window had closed, but I don't think he realized how bad it would be. He probably still thought LA would be a destination for free agents and that our front office would still outwork other teams.

(One of the biggest reasons the CP3 trade go nixed was because small market teams were outraged that we were getting a superstar in CP3
AND going to pay less luxury taxes).

I don't think Jerry Buss could imagine how bad the Lakers were going to be and how many times we missed the playoffs after all the success we previously enjoyed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
TrueBlueLakers
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
It definitely had an impact. When you look back at that moment, it could be argued that it affected so much more

1. CP3 would've saved Kobe's legs, maybe meaning he never gets his achilles injury
2. Would've got something for Pau instead of nothing
3. Probably still would've got Dwight, who arguably wouldn't have left
4. Wouldn't have had to give up those picks for Nash
5. Team would've remained in contention, and arguably would be a bigger draw for free agents over last couple of years.

For me, this was the moment where I lost a little bit of love for the game, it turned my perception of how the league is run, I just think it was morally wrong and a huge conflict of interest, I still can't understand how the league allowed that to happen. For me, that tarnished Sterns reputation beyond repair.

I don't think this is the single reason we are where we are, there were a lot of questionable moves by the team following that, but there is no denying the veto moment as something that had a massive impact.



Spot on! I agree 100%
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
AshesToAshes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject:

Huge impact and foreshadowed why it can't be run as a 2 headed snake where each is ignorant of the other.

How they hung pau out to dry over time afterwards showed how they would treat a champion and foundationally how they treated the best brand in sports for the rest of his tenure. The lack of action when action is desperately needed is worse than taking an action which is less that optimal. In both cases they waited for a big win that they never found.

They're "resigning kobe was a marketing decision" or leak... is the type of double talk and why a retired player like magic supports jeanie.

And after it all, once let go, what they tried todo to their own sister should make everyone realize their true colours without a doubt now and be glad he's been completely removed.

His settlement was undisclosed likely because it was related to an open betting account at the racetrack. I hope breeders start naming horses with laker references.
_________________
KOBE!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
laker4life
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

Gatekeeper wrote:
It was a major setback for us as a franchise, but not the reason for their firings. Mostly it had to do with the lack of communication between the basketball ops camp and business ops. Jim and Mitch demonstrated this just this week before the firings when they tried to trade for DeMarcus without telling Jeanie. It's a recurring theme, Jim being impetuous and doing things his own way often to disastrous results.


agreed.

Setback but his decisions to hire Brown and not hire Phil will be his biggest mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CRoost
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4790

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject:

laker4life wrote:
Gatekeeper wrote:
It was a major setback for us as a franchise, but not the reason for their firings. Mostly it had to do with the lack of communication between the basketball ops camp and business ops. Jim and Mitch demonstrated this just this week before the firings when they tried to trade for DeMarcus without telling Jeanie. It's a recurring theme, Jim being impetuous and doing things his own way often to disastrous results.


agreed.

Setback but his decisions to hire Brown and not hire Phil will be his biggest mistakes.


Whatever they did after the CP3 failed to materialize was the cause of the team demise. Hiring D Antoni to make our old horses run was the biggest mistake. His system did not fit the core of our team. Phil and the triangle was the best fit but of course Jim Buss wants to put a stamp on the team and dominoes fell after that. He should never made a basketball decision. I'm glad he is out. Mitch was a puppet. I think Jim was pulling the strings and Mitch did whatever the boss said so he can keep his job. Mitch did a lot of good moves and he drafted well but Lakers not making the playoff for how many years now, he's gotta go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB