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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Goldenwest wrote: | the Lakers are still the marquee team in the NBA. they're just in a bit of a prolonged slumber; star and second tier FA's are waiting for them to open just one eye so to speak. |
I don't know whether this is really true in the modern era of the NBA, but we're going to find out over the next two years. |
I agree that the Lakers will always attract more attention, in part because people have strong feelings about Los Angeles itself, but I'm not sure that really matters to individual players, particularly superstars.
It seems like we're in an era where the stars are bigger than the teams they play for. There doesn't seem to be much correlation between the size of the market and a player's popularity, endorsements, and jersey sales.
Durant became a superstar in Oklahoma City and Lebron in Cleveland -- I doubt their personal fortunes would have changed much if they had started in Los Angeles or New York.
So the notion of "All other things being equal, the Lakers have an advantage" might not hold anymore. But even if it does the "all other things" matter more. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | So the notion of "All other things being equal, the Lakers have an advantage" might not hold anymore. But even if it does the "all other things" matter more. |
Sure, starting with state income taxes. While this effect has been greatly overstated in some of the prior threads on this board, the fact remains that the teams around the league are not on equal footing at the basic level of how much their offers are worth. In particular, the Texas and Florida teams are going to have a long term advantage, while the California and New York teams (among others) are going to have a long term disadvantage. Meanwhile, Toronto has a whole set of peculiar issues. |
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32 Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Posts: 73040
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: |
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With the new state of the art training and corporate facilities opening up this summer combined with stability of new management in basketball operations we have a great shot at luring top free agents. We have to get lucky with timing of cap space and availability of top free agents. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | activeverb wrote: | So the notion of "All other things being equal, the Lakers have an advantage" might not hold anymore. But even if it does the "all other things" matter more. |
Sure, starting with state income taxes. While this effect has been greatly overstated in some of the prior threads on this board, the fact remains that the teams around the league are not on equal footing at the basic level of how much their offers are worth. In particular, the Texas and Florida teams are going to have a long term advantage, while the California and New York teams (among others) are going to have a long term disadvantage. Meanwhile, Toronto has a whole set of peculiar issues. |
Taxes is a really complicated issue especially since you have to pay taxes to the state and city you play in for away games.
But the other things I was thinking about one more basic, such as quality of teammates in the ability to actually contend.
Weather Big City Life in LA or New York is a pro or con is in the eye of the beholder I suspect most players would rather be in Los Angeles then, say Minneapolis.
But things like being in a media center have become much less important in the social media age. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | activeverb wrote: | So the notion of "All other things being equal, the Lakers have an advantage" might not hold anymore. But even if it does the "all other things" matter more. |
Sure, starting with state income taxes. While this effect has been greatly overstated in some of the prior threads on this board, the fact remains that the teams around the league are not on equal footing at the basic level of how much their offers are worth. In particular, the Texas and Florida teams are going to have a long term advantage, while the California and New York teams (among others) are going to have a long term disadvantage. Meanwhile, Toronto has a whole set of peculiar issues. |
Taxes is a really complicated issue especially since you have to pay taxes to the state and city you play in for away games.
But the other things I was thinking about one more basic, such as quality of teammates in the ability to actually contend.
Weather Big City Life in LA or New York is a pro or con is in the eye of the beholder I suspect most players would rather be in Los Angeles then, say Minneapolis.
But things like being in a media center have become much less important in the social media age. |
Sure. I started with taxes because it is a basic, dollars and cents issue. For a major star getting a multi-year deal, we're talking about millions of dollars. Suppose that some future superstar is considering the Lakers, Mavs, and Heat. He is going to be taking a de facto pay cut to sign with the Lakers. This is going to be a long term issue. |
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Goldenwest Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2801
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | Quote: |
the Lakers are still the marquee team in the NBA. |
No they are not. We have to stop thinking like this. We don't have the most wins in history anymore nor do we don't have the most titles. We dont have the best training staff or the best coaching staff, or the best analytics department or the best scouting department or the best player development team.
What we do have is a massively inflated ego and a spinal injury from patting ourselves on the back every 5 seconds over our history and "exceptionalism." We don't even get courtesy FA meetings anymore. The past championships were great, but those and $5 gets you a latte in today's NBA. Greatness will not come find us. Our future successes will be a result of the work we put in to acquiring and developing players and building a new world class organization from the ground up. |
Sure the new FO needs to get going, But you're making it seem like the lakers need to climb Mount Everest. Real improvement is closer than you think. a lot of these players today grew up emulating Kobe and watching the lakers. They would love to join. They just need to be assured that the arrow is pointing up again. And With the money being equal a lot of them would take LA over most other cities. A trade in the offseason, signing a solid FA, maybe with the top 3 pick, suddenly the lakers are in the playoff hunt next year, and you'll see a lot of stars getting real interested again. |
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haji818 Rookie
Joined: 31 Mar 2017 Posts: 2
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: |
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My offseason plan.
Sign Jrue Holiday
Sign Mason Plumlee
Russel and Randle for Paul George
Trade #2 to Sacremento for 5 and 9
Draft Tatum, Markkenen, and Swanigan |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: |
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haji818 wrote: | My offseason plan.
Sign Jrue Holiday
Sign Mason Plumlee
Russel and Randle for Paul George
Trade #2 to Sacremento for 5 and 9
Draft Tatum, Markkenen, and Swanigan |
PG: Jrue
SG: Clarkson
SF: Paul George
PF: Deng
C: Plumlee
Can win 48-52 games if the team clicks. |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | haji818 wrote: | My offseason plan.
Sign Jrue Holiday
Sign Mason Plumlee
Russel and Randle for Paul George
Trade #2 to Sacremento for 5 and 9
Draft Tatum, Markkenen, and Swanigan |
PG: Jrue
SG: Clarkson
SF: Paul George
PF: Deng
C: Plumlee
Can win 48-52 games if the team clicks. |
Jrue and the best big in the league Anthony Davis can't even make the playoffs. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | haji818 wrote: | My offseason plan.
Sign Jrue Holiday
Sign Mason Plumlee
Russel and Randle for Paul George
Trade #2 to Sacremento for 5 and 9
Draft Tatum, Markkenen, and Swanigan |
PG: Jrue
SG: Clarkson
SF: Paul George
PF: Deng
C: Plumlee
Can win 48-52 games if the team clicks. |
Jrue and the best big in the league Anthony Davis can't even make the playoffs. |
Thats cause there depth sucks lol |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | haji818 wrote: | My offseason plan.
Sign Jrue Holiday
Sign Mason Plumlee
Russel and Randle for Paul George
Trade #2 to Sacremento for 5 and 9
Draft Tatum, Markkenen, and Swanigan |
PG: Jrue
SG: Clarkson
SF: Paul George
PF: Deng
C: Plumlee
Can win 48-52 games if the team clicks. |
Jrue and the best big in the league Anthony Davis can't even make the playoffs. |
Thats cause there depth sucks lol |
And so would ours if we traded R&R for Paul George. We would go from a young team with potential to low seed playoff team that would age rapidly. The Knicks of the West if you will. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | haji818 wrote: | My offseason plan.
Sign Jrue Holiday
Sign Mason Plumlee
Russel and Randle for Paul George
Trade #2 to Sacremento for 5 and 9
Draft Tatum, Markkenen, and Swanigan |
PG: Jrue
SG: Clarkson
SF: Paul George
PF: Deng
C: Plumlee
Can win 48-52 games if the team clicks. |
Jrue and the best big in the league Anthony Davis can't even make the playoffs. |
Thats cause there depth sucks lol |
And so would ours if we traded R&R for Paul George. We would go from a young team with potential to low seed playoff team that would age rapidly. The Knicks of the West if you will. |
That team might end up overachieving so you take that chance. |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: |
We would go from a young team with potential to low seed playoff team that would age rapidly. |
There is potential, but right now I am not seeing a lot of will from these guys. We need a modern day Nick Van Exel.
Oh and refill my prescription, I left several messages at your office. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | That team might end up overachieving so you take that chance. |
Any plan that relies on overachieving is doomed to failure. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | That team might end up overachieving so you take that chance. |
Any plan that relies on overachieving is doomed to failure. |
The same can be said about developing your players. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | tox wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | That team might end up overachieving so you take that chance. |
Any plan that relies on overachieving is doomed to failure. |
The same can be said about developing your players. |
Except the upside of developing young, talented players is higher than the upside of a mismatched assortment of borderline Top 10-15 players peaking together at the same time.
LeBron/ Wade/ Bosh lost in 2011. But Paul George/ Jimmy Butler/ Blake Griffin is going to lead us to the promised land?
Let me put it this way:
Curry > Butler
Durant > George
Green + Thompson > Griffin + whoever our 4th guy is.
And Golden State would have better depth than us.
At least if I'm going to fantasize about our young core, we have the flexibility to sign Anthony Davis in 2021, for example, right as Russell & Ingram (and Randle, Clarkson, Zubac et al.) enter their prime. |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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32 wrote: | With the new state of the art training and corporate facilities opening up this summer combined with stability of new management in basketball operations we have a great shot at luring top free agents. We have to get lucky with timing of cap space and availability of top free agents. | the only reasons we might get a new FA is because the right FA is up for grabs. meaning a person who wanted to come here is finally free after making a boat load of money in previous deals. in addition our kids are a bit older and more developed. so thats easier to trade for something worth something or thats easier for a FA vet to stomach. non of those things actually have anything to do with our new FO doing anything right or wrong. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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The Grind wrote: | He's right. The Lakers are still in LA and they will always have their heritage. Problem is the previous administration was clueless in knowing how to sell these qualities. |
Those qualities won't sell when your team is horrible and tanking every season. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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MoriArty Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Posts: 162
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | FYI if Pelinka and Magic..end up signing Griffin .. there will be many theories rather Mitch and Jim could have done the same thing. |
I seriously think this is going to happen. Randle will likely be shipped out along with Clarkson and other pieces for one of Jimmy Butler or Paul George should we acquire Blake. I think they're swinging for the fences with all the assets we have this offseason. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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MoriArty wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | FYI if Pelinka and Magic..end up signing Griffin .. there will be many theories rather Mitch and Jim could have done the same thing. |
I seriously think this is going to happen. Randle will likely be shipped out along with Clarkson and other pieces for one of Jimmy Butler or Paul George should we acquire Blake. I think they're swinging for the fences with all the assets we have this offseason. |
I'm more then willing to see what the young guys can fetch, but I hope we keep Zu and Ingram for long term building block. |
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dengman Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Mar 2017 Posts: 196
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: Lakers 2.ohhhh |
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Assumptions: PG13 will come here in free agency, no need to give away assets. Westbrook will have given 2 years w/o Durant and won't be a bad guy for leaving, WB also gets to pursue his fashion career, also come home. Harden will get to come home, actually, chase a chip, has a relationship with Rob and he can finish what he and Westbrook started. WB and Harden both have beef brewing against GSW. Harden is making so much on his Adidas deal, PG had a career threatening injury, and WB has vengeance in his eyes as well as Magic offering business tutoring as the reason they all take 4-5 million/year off a max deal.
Assets to get Rid of DenGov( To Sac/BKN, they both have large expiring deals coming up next summer):
Julius Randle
Jordan Clarkson
Tarik Black
Houston Pick
2020 First Rounder
Future 2nds
Keepers:
Ingram
D. Lo
Zubac
Nance
2017 First Rounder(J. Jackson)
2017 Offseason:
Punt Capspace
2018 Offseason:
Paul George
Russ Westbrook
2019 Offseason:
James Harden
PG: Russell Westbrook/D. Lo
SG James Harden/D. Lo/Nwaba
SF: PG13/Josh Jackson
PF: Ingram/Nance
C: Zubac/Anyone
Only thing I'm not sure about is D. Lo's cap number once his extension kicks in in summer 2019 and having capspace for Harden, if anyone has thoughts on that.....
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/238488/exec-expects-westbrook-harden-to-join-forces-with-lakers |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | activeverb wrote: | So the notion of "All other things being equal, the Lakers have an advantage" might not hold anymore. But even if it does the "all other things" matter more. |
Sure, starting with state income taxes. While this effect has been greatly overstated in some of the prior threads on this board, the fact remains that the teams around the league are not on equal footing at the basic level of how much their offers are worth. In particular, the Texas and Florida teams are going to have a long term advantage, while the California and New York teams (among others) are going to have a long term disadvantage. Meanwhile, Toronto has a whole set of peculiar issues. |
Taxes is a really complicated issue especially since you have to pay taxes to the state and city you play in for away games.
But the other things I was thinking about one more basic, such as quality of teammates in the ability to actually contend.
Weather Big City Life in LA or New York is a pro or con is in the eye of the beholder I suspect most players would rather be in Los Angeles then, say Minneapolis.
But things like being in a media center have become much less important in the social media age. |
Sure. I started with taxes because it is a basic, dollars and cents issue. For a major star getting a multi-year deal, we're talking about millions of dollars. Suppose that some future superstar is considering the Lakers, Mavs, and Heat. He is going to be taking a de facto pay cut to sign with the Lakers. This is going to be a long term issue. |
even with people making normal salaries, I have seen them move to LA or NY and become shocked by their actual take home pay after taxes (which often is not just state income taxes), so when you are planning for 60-70 years on 10-15 years labor....those few million matter, especially when their financial adviser is showing them data with interest and average rates of return on what that $2 Million today could be in 20 years....it is no longer just a couple million dollars. |
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