The JULIUS RANDLE Thread
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Nice to see the mods cracking down on all the "hot take BS" in this thread and handing out weeklong suspensions to everyone who posts something critical of Randle.


Have ya seen him post again since then?

And this is like the 4th time you've (bleep) about this since you were suspended. No one's getting suspended for being critical of Randle. I'M critical of Randle. If you have a problem with how this thread is moderated, feel free to use the proper channels and if you can't we'll find other ways to resolve it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject:

If the mods banned everyone who was critical of Randle we'd have like 5 people left on this board.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Nice to see the mods cracking down on all the "hot take BS" in this thread and handing out weeklong suspensions to everyone who posts something critical of Randle.


Have ya seen him post again since then?

And this is like the 4th time you've (bleep) about this since you were suspended. No one's getting suspended for being critical of Randle. I'M critical of Randle. If you have a problem with how this thread is moderated, feel free to use the proper channels and if you can't we'll find other ways to resolve it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
zoom K083 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I was at the game last night, and my brother looked at me and laughed when this play happened. This is the type of play that drives me absolutely crazy with him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3jKNatjJRgKo8/giphy.gif


this is fixable?!?!


Idk if I'm not seeing something, but that play looked more like brewers fault than randle. Randle looked like he was trying to cut off I think it was Harkless as he was cutting to the basket.


It's not a question of it not being Brewer's fault. Fault isn't even really what I'm pointing out here, although yes it was primarily his fault.

What I'm pointing out here is that Randle doesn't even know what's happening until Vonleh's dunking. Brewer makes the primary mistake here, but perimeter players get beat on a regular basis, and if your 4 or 5 doesn't even see it until that late it's a problem.


Wrong play to make that critique. Last thing he sees before turning his head is the ball loose and going towards midcourt/sideline. 9999 out of 10000 players right there are thinking that no way Vonleh gets into the lane that quickly. For how bad Brewer, if he'd have just stopped where he was and simply played a light pole there, the time to merely go around him would have been the time for Randle to help and Nance to then try and help him. Why 9999 out of 10000 would have been Randle on that play. Since the least we can expect is that one merely plays a light pole. Worked out for him, since if had helped there, Harkness scores and the and 1 (foul on Nance from the weakside). Lastly, as I've said before, the problem with this team's defense is, as it's always been of late, non-existent guard defense. Say hello to one Corey Brewer with that play the defining moment of the no guard defense.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
If the mods banned everyone who was critical of Randle we'd have like 5 people left on this board.


Excuse me. Those 5 people are known as Randle Only Fans, or ROF for short.

Kinda like Lin Only Fans, but without bombarding you with every stat known to man.

ROF's don't make videos highlighting Randle eith... Ummm.... Well scratch that! ROF's make better and more entertaining YouTube videos highlighting the positive attributes of Julius Randle than LOF's.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject:

Randle would benefit from being more of a student of the game along with being a gym rat. Not everyone can be Kobe, but it just seems like mentally Randle is out there playing with a high school or AAU mentality half of the time. He needs to hit the books and videos and really try to understand the game, rather than try to brute force his way through them.

Right now, Randle is like a strong fighter with natural talent who's never studied martial arts. Beats people's asses his whole life until he finally makes it to a stage where people are just as strong and skilled as he is but also much more mentally engaged. Sure he wins some fights here and there, but when he loses, he just looks outclassed.

Can Randle improve? Sure. But at the same time overall intelligence is one of the hardest things for NBA players to improve upon, from what I've seen. It's what separates the Smush's from the Kidd's.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject:

Slappy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
zoom K083 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I was at the game last night, and my brother looked at me and laughed when this play happened. This is the type of play that drives me absolutely crazy with him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3jKNatjJRgKo8/giphy.gif


this is fixable?!?!


Idk if I'm not seeing something, but that play looked more like brewers fault than randle. Randle looked like he was trying to cut off I think it was Harkless as he was cutting to the basket.


It's not a question of it not being Brewer's fault. Fault isn't even really what I'm pointing out here, although yes it was primarily his fault.

What I'm pointing out here is that Randle doesn't even know what's happening until Vonleh's dunking. Brewer makes the primary mistake here, but perimeter players get beat on a regular basis, and if your 4 or 5 doesn't even see it until that late it's a problem.


Wrong play to make that critique. Last thing he sees before turning his head is the ball loose and going towards midcourt/sideline. 9999 out of 10000 players right there are thinking that no way Vonleh gets into the lane that quickly. For how bad Brewer, if he'd have just stopped where he was and simply played a light pole there, the time to merely go around him would have been the time for Randle to help and Nance to then try and help him. Why 9999 out of 10000 would have been Randle on that play. Since the least we can expect is that one merely plays a light pole. Worked out for him, since if had helped there, Harkness scores and the and 1 (foul on Nance from the weakside). Lastly, as I've said before, the problem with this team's defense is, as it's always been of late, non-existent guard defense. Say hello to one Corey Brewer with that play the defining moment of the no guard defense.


" see ball & man" is a fundamental taught in middle school. It's very important and most good defenders do it.
It's pretty much the reason why Randle is late on so many of his rotations, it takes effort/conditioning/want-to, to jog around on D with your head up and on a swivel.
Randle's gotta fix it one way or another

Brewer shouldn't have went for the steal, but the play still took advantage of Randle's critical flaw on defense. There's help defense for a reason, says Brewer.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Slappy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
zoom K083 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I was at the game last night, and my brother looked at me and laughed when this play happened. This is the type of play that drives me absolutely crazy with him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3jKNatjJRgKo8/giphy.gif


this is fixable?!?!


Idk if I'm not seeing something, but that play looked more like brewers fault than randle. Randle looked like he was trying to cut off I think it was Harkless as he was cutting to the basket.


It's not a question of it not being Brewer's fault. Fault isn't even really what I'm pointing out here, although yes it was primarily his fault.

What I'm pointing out here is that Randle doesn't even know what's happening until Vonleh's dunking. Brewer makes the primary mistake here, but perimeter players get beat on a regular basis, and if your 4 or 5 doesn't even see it until that late it's a problem.


Wrong play to make that critique. Last thing he sees before turning his head is the ball loose and going towards midcourt/sideline. 9999 out of 10000 players right there are thinking that no way Vonleh gets into the lane that quickly. For how bad Brewer, if he'd have just stopped where he was and simply played a light pole there, the time to merely go around him would have been the time for Randle to help and Nance to then try and help him. Why 9999 out of 10000 would have been Randle on that play. Since the least we can expect is that one merely plays a light pole. Worked out for him, since if had helped there, Harkness scores and the and 1 (foul on Nance from the weakside). Lastly, as I've said before, the problem with this team's defense is, as it's always been of late, non-existent guard defense. Say hello to one Corey Brewer with that play the defining moment of the no guard defense.


" see ball & man" is a fundamental taught in middle school.



not anymore, and you see the echo's of that nowadays in a lot of prospects.

That kind of skill is now considered as additional icing on the cake as opposed to the standard.


Same can be said of basic defensive stances and balances, and the slide drill. But you have professionals that can't slide their feet right, or drop into a basic defensive stance. They don't know how to force someone to their weak hand unless they also let him go to the basket. They don't know how to place their hands defensively so that when they come up they swipe the ball instead of swiping down and getting a foul called.

They don't know how to cross or slide their legs correctly or keep their hands at the ready. They don't know how to cut off the baseline by stepping one foot on the baseline which means they'd need to charge in order to get past you. They don't understand how to switch the rotation to intercept the second pass that's going to the the big when the player rotates. They don't understand ANY of that stuff and it's never taught to them unless by a specific kind of coach.

That kind of stuff is considered an additional strength, or a benefit nowadays, when it USED to be part of the basics and standard. But you got kids coming into the league now with none of that knowledge, and starting to have to learn and apply it when they get to the league as opposed to coming into high school with it, the way it used to be.

Sad, but it's true of the majority of today's players on the come up.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject:

I don't buy that whole narrative. I do think core fundamental's are taught in middle/high school. I just played in this AAU era, these things were taught universally. Help defense is taught universally.
Are these fundamentals actually enforced and coached well, maybe not, and maybe that's getting worse. And star players usually have more of a leash at lower levels (Julius did, he was hilariously bad defensively in high school)

But these things are taught.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:33 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I don't buy that whole narrative. I do think core fundamental's are taught in middle/high school. I just played in this AAU era, these things were taught universally. Help defense is taught universally.
Are these fundamentals actually enforced and coached well, maybe not, and maybe that's getting worse. But they are taught.



you see that's the point.

It's NOT enforced, and that's the problem. To me it's basically pointless to teach someone something and then have no intention of enforcing it.

It's more or less played like a tutorial level, an entry class, but is never enforced whatsoever nor is it required to continuously work on.

So to me, it being taught stops mattering once they get to high school and college because it's never enforced.

Teaching or 'telling' someone it isn't enough, you got to enforce it.


I could go all day telling someone how to fix their jump shot by putting their elbow a certain way or adjusting their gate. But if it's not being enforced whenever they make a mistake or are inconsistent, and it's not something repetitively worked on, then their shot isn't gonna improve and it's meaningless.

So in essence it's meaningless if there's no repetition towards continuing to progress with it, or nothing to enforce the continued progression of it.

And we see it more and more with each passing year.

Is Randle's stamina improving cause Luke said "hey, you know, if we do the drill 10 times harder and you changed your diet, your stamina would improve."

Or did it improve because that became a continuous commitment, and repetition and stuff that was worked on day in and day out for continued progress.


Same can be said of those "basics". The whole "eh we taught them so we can get that out of the way." mentality about the basics is something that needs to change.



We are in an era where PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS could shoot 20% from the free throw line, be told "You know.. if you do this you could be a 70-75% free throw shooter in a few seasons." and will answer "Yeah, but what if it looks silly.."

The stuff that used to be the norm and was enforced as such, is now known as the exception to the rule.

The fact you got centers coming into the NBA not even knowing how to execute a drop step or having a consistent hook shot is mind boggling. That's stuff as basic as a jump shot. But that's what happens when the basics of defense are considered 'obsolete for success and stardom' at the college and NBA level.

It's a "so what if you can't play defense and have no awareness of the basics on that end.. can you shoot threes and/or dunk and handle the ball?" kind of world now.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject:

I also don't know if I buy that argument. I really think that when you play 'help defense' for one season, at a high level of the sport - it is soooo pounded into your mind - these fundamentals become things that you never forget and know that you should do consistently - instinctually hopefully. Just from one season.
I firmly believe that.
Help defense is not rocket science at all. It's really, really not complex, at all. Julius knows where he has to be on the defensive side of the court at all times, half of the posters here know where he has to be at all times. It's not complicated, that's why effort is so important.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:55 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I also don't know if I buy that argument. I really think that when you play 'help defense' for one season, at a high level of the sport - it is soooo pounded into your mind - these fundamentals become things that you never forget and know that you should do consistently - instinctually hopefully. Just from one season.
I firmly believe that.
Help defense is not rocket science at all. It's really, really not complex, at all. Julius knows where he has to be on the defensive side of the court at all times, half of the posters here know where he has to be at all times. It's not complicated, that's why effort is so important.



Except the thing is like I said, that kind of stuff is NOT enforced in middle school, or high school, or college. It's stuff that kids START getting to learn when they get to the pros.

And no, it's more than "well if you hear it for the entire year, you understand it."

No, it isn't. that simple and people watching it don't understand that, it's easy for them to see on a TV screen, executing it against NBA speed as a 2nd year player that's first getting any kind of tutoring in it is a different animal entirely.


Everyone on this team has lost their man off ball on a consistent basic, Clarkson consistently loses his man off ball and more often than not helps the helper or one pass away too much leaving his man wide open. I've seen Ingram get beat by the same backdoor cut over and over again, and I see Nance still unable to deal with switches that aren't on the help side. And I've seen Clarkson get beat down the court 3 straight plays off a missed 3 by not paying attention to the guy he's supposed to be trailing.


Do you think it's ALL effort? No, it's not. THIS entire team is finally learning the concept of defense and actually getting actual mentorship and direction in that aspect THIS season because Byron didn't give them diddily.


LUKE even touched on how little this team knew about team defense and how little they understood it. HE essentially said that the kind of time it would take for them to even get close to being consistent is more than one season.

In understanding this is why he implemented the "switch everything" strategy, because that's how bad they were at understanding the basic defensive philosophies Luke wanted to install.


SO WHAT you are going to get from that, is some nights where guys are locked in defensively but will have miscues, and you'll have nights where guys aren't as locked in as they should be and is inconsistent.

That is what you see, NOT just with Randle, but with Clarkson, and with Russell and yes, with Nance who is Mr effort and hustle as christened by this site.

Is effort a part of it? Of course it is, but also the inconsistencies that come with learning new principles that the entire team suffers from, particularly when it's first being implemented.

We aren't ranked 30th in the league defensively giving up 113 points a game solely cause of Julius [expletive] Randle needing to work on his off ball defense and closeouts.

The ENTIRE TEAM needed drilling on defense, to the extent that Luke implemented a 'switch everything' strategy because of how far behind the guys were on the defensive end.

It's the after effects of 1) not learning a [expletive] thing from Byron. 2) learning these defensive principles and what's required of you on both a focus and effort standpoint as well as an understanding of these principles and applying them at NBA speed.

So you need to stop expecting progress as if they'd been getting this drilled into their head for 3 seasons when it's literally been less than one.

And Luke has called out Clarkson for his defensive lapses and effort on that end a helluva lot more than he has Randle.

mainly because he knows Randle is a fine man defender, and a good defender on switches. His weaknesses are his off-ball focus and attacking closeouts faster.

Seriously, that's it.

People need to stop [expletive] acting like he's James Harden and everyone else has been Kawhi.

When he played that good defense on Towns and had those key blocks during the game and played good defense, maybe one person that wasn't
anpherknee, J.C. or me, gave Julius credit for his defense or actually acknowledged it in this thread.

But he blows an assignment last night, you got about 2 pages worth of stuff talking about it.


People love blowing up one or two plays from Randle and trying to make it like that was his identity the entire game, till a poster like J.C. comes around and shows he played alright defense the majority of the game, and those moments where he got lost were no longer the norm as they had been earlier in the season.

But rather than see progression or acknowledge it, people when it comes to Randle OR Russell seem to like to focus on one or two things over the course of an entire game that drive them nuts or that they want to mainly vent about. There's nothing wrong with that if you're actually there to acknowledge the solid things they did defensively as well or the moments that they did the right thing.

And I ain't seeing that from the people that always got something to say when he blows an assignment.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:04 am    Post subject:

It is heavily enforced in college. High level defense is predicated on it. Julius played a lot of man defense at Kentucky - even though, interestingly enough Calipari strayed from his 'no zone defense' mentality for Julius' year - probably because man defense is more physically taxing/tiring - and Julius is just getting to a competent level of stamina. Just my guess/jab

Experience definitely helps. Most young defenders in the league are bad. You're right, experience is a big factor, and NBA speed is no joke - you have to know the other team's plays to not be behind the play.
Still though, not 'seeing ball & man' is a fundamental he was taught in high school -and was enforced enough in college and his rookie year. He knows he should be doing it. That really is an effort/stamina thing - I'm glad that issue/factor was verified. Personally I think it plays a role in this facet of guarding.
Being extremely attentive and engaged defensively takes effort/stamina.
I'm the biggest proponent of this dynamic.. so, that's my take on it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:12 am    Post subject:

Except when he played that good defense on Towns and had those key blocks during the game and played good defense, maybe one person that wasn't anpherknee, J.C. or me, gave Julius credit for his defense or actually acknowledged it in this thread where he did well/showed improvement.



But he blows an assignment last night....? you got about 2 pages worth of stuff talking about it.


People seem to really love blowing up one or two plays from Randle and trying to make it like that was his identity the entire game, till a poster like J.C. comes around and shows he played alright defense the majority of the game, and those moments where he got lost were no longer the norm as they had been earlier in the season.

But rather than see progression or acknowledge it, people when it comes to Randle OR Russell seem to like to focus on one or two things over the course of an entire game that drive them nuts or that they want to mainly vent about. There's nothing wrong with that if you're actually there to also acknowledge the solid things they did defensively as well or the moments that they did the right thing.

But I'm not seeing that from the people that always got something to say when he blows an assignment.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject:

I'd get Julius tested for ADD. I'm not kidding. It would explain a lot.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I'd get Julius tested for ADD. I'm not kidding. It would explain a lot.


ANTOINE-WALKER Deficiency Disorder???
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I'd get Julius tested for ADD. I'm not kidding. It would explain a lot.


ANTOINE-WALKER Deficiency Disorder???


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Can they lock him in a room and force him to watch Anthony Mason footage for 72 hours, A Clockwork Orange style?

Be like Mase. Be like Mase.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
zoom K083 wrote:
ahh ic. so what would be the best thing for Randle to do? See if Vonleh would throw the pass to Harkless? I guess if he was paying attention to Vonleh randle would have been in position to stop a pass or his drive?


The first priority is always to stop the ball. Then it's a teammate's job to help the helper from the weak side.


Man, it's been a long year.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I don't buy that whole narrative. I do think core fundamental's are taught in middle/high school. I just played in this AAU era, these things were taught universally. Help defense is taught universally.
Are these fundamentals actually enforced and coached well, maybe not, and maybe that's getting worse. And star players usually have more of a leash at lower levels (Julius did, he was hilariously bad defensively in high school)

But these things are taught.


And so is closing out. Almost religiously. I can't for the life of me figure out how these things are not ingrained, star player or no.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I'd get Julius tested for ADD. I'm not kidding. It would explain a lot.


Just go with MWP to his next appt
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I also don't know if I buy that argument. I really think that when you play 'help defense' for one season, at a high level of the sport - it is soooo pounded into your mind - these fundamentals become things that you never forget and know that you should do consistently - instinctually hopefully. Just from one season.
I firmly believe that.
Help defense is not rocket science at all. It's really, really not complex, at all. Julius knows where he has to be on the defensive side of the court at all times, half of the posters here know where he has to be at all times. It's not complicated, that's why effort is so important.



Except the thing is like I said, that kind of stuff is NOT enforced in middle school, or high school, or college. It's stuff that kids START getting to learn when they get to the pros.

And no, it's more than "well if you hear it for the entire year, you understand it."

No, it isn't. that simple and people watching it don't understand that, it's easy for them to see on a TV screen, executing it against NBA speed as a 2nd year player that's first getting any kind of tutoring in it is a different animal entirely.


Everyone on this team has lost their man off ball on a consistent basic, Clarkson consistently loses his man off ball and more often than not helps the helper or one pass away too much leaving his man wide open. I've seen Ingram get beat by the same backdoor cut over and over again, and I see Nance still unable to deal with switches that aren't on the help side. And I've seen Clarkson get beat down the court 3 straight plays off a missed 3 by not paying attention to the guy he's supposed to be trailing.


Do you think it's ALL effort? No, it's not. THIS entire team is finally learning the concept of defense and actually getting actual mentorship and direction in that aspect THIS season because Byron didn't give them diddily.


LUKE even touched on how little this team knew about team defense and how little they understood it. HE essentially said that the kind of time it would take for them to even get close to being consistent is more than one season.

In understanding this is why he implemented the "switch everything" strategy, because that's how bad they were at understanding the basic defensive philosophies Luke wanted to install.


SO WHAT you are going to get from that, is some nights where guys are locked in defensively but will have miscues, and you'll have nights where guys aren't as locked in as they should be and is inconsistent.

That is what you see, NOT just with Randle, but with Clarkson, and with Russell and yes, with Nance who is Mr effort and hustle as christened by this site.

Is effort a part of it? Of course it is, but also the inconsistencies that come with learning new principles that the entire team suffers from, particularly when it's first being implemented.

We aren't ranked 30th in the league defensively giving up 113 points a game solely cause of Julius [expletive] Randle needing to work on his off ball defense and closeouts.

The ENTIRE TEAM needed drilling on defense, to the extent that Luke implemented a 'switch everything' strategy because of how far behind the guys were on the defensive end.

It's the after effects of 1) not learning a [expletive] thing from Byron. 2) learning these defensive principles and what's required of you on both a focus and effort standpoint as well as an understanding of these principles and applying them at NBA speed.

So you need to stop expecting progress as if they'd been getting this drilled into their head for 3 seasons when it's literally been less than one.

And Luke has called out Clarkson for his defensive lapses and effort on that end a helluva lot more than he has Randle.

mainly because he knows Randle is a fine man defender, and a good defender on switches. His weaknesses are his off-ball focus and attacking closeouts faster.

Seriously, that's it.

People need to stop [expletive] acting like he's James Harden and everyone else has been Kawhi.

When he played that good defense on Towns and had those key blocks during the game and played good defense, maybe one person that wasn't
anpherknee, J.C. or me, gave Julius credit for his defense or actually acknowledged it in this thread.

But he blows an assignment last night, you got about 2 pages worth of stuff talking about it.


People love blowing up one or two plays from Randle and trying to make it like that was his identity the entire game, till a poster like J.C. comes around and shows he played alright defense the majority of the game, and those moments where he got lost were no longer the norm as they had been earlier in the season.

But rather than see progression or acknowledge it, people when it comes to Randle OR Russell seem to like to focus on one or two things over the course of an entire game that drive them nuts or that they want to mainly vent about. There's nothing wrong with that if you're actually there to acknowledge the solid things they did defensively as well or the moments that they did the right thing.

And I ain't seeing that from the people that always got something to say when he blows an assignment.


In comparison to other players in his experience level, Julius' feel for the game is very poor. While it hasnt helped that they haven't had a polished team around him on either side of the ball, it is painfully evident that his faults on defense outweigh his below average teammates.

He just doesn't seem to grasp the game on a macro level like we typically expect someone at the pro level to do.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I'd get Julius tested for ADD. I'm not kidding. It would explain a lot.


ANTOINE-WALKER Deficiency Disorder???


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JM
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject:

Please change the title of this thread to Julius "Fumbles" Randle.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject:

Julius has gone dormant like Mount Vesivius
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