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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90305 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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AY2043 wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | the cheapest airlines are almost always the worst (e.g., Delta, United, etc.). not surprised at all |
If you are paying rock bottom prices to fly, don't expect luxury service. The number of people they pack into an economy class cabin, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. You are literally being treated like cattle. |
I fly Southwest all the time and nothing like this has ever happened. They overbook quite often, but there's always enough people that take the vouchers. |
Yep. If Southwest can get me to where I'm trying to go, I'm flying with them. I've never not had a pain free, pleasant experience. |
Southwest oversold and deboarded more passengers than any other airline last year. 4 times as many as United by the figures I saw. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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lakerjoshua Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 11277 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Asian man gets random lottery style ass whoopin and it makes CNN..... |
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lakerjoshua Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2007 Posts: 11277 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
If he was black it'd be multiple felony charges. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:32 am Post subject: |
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lakerjoshua wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
If he was black it'd be multiple felony charges. |
If he was black they would've made sure he couldn't testify |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22839 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:16 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
He has something more powerful than the law on his side... social media, youtube. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25075
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:14 am Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons) |
Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.
Quote: | This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.
At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation. |
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8858
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:41 am Post subject: |
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lakerjoshua wrote: | Asian man gets random lottery style ass whoopin and it makes CNN..... |
yep, this just gone viral on Wechat (their version of FB) yesterday |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons) |
Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.
Quote: | This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.
At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation. |
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc |
I'm aware of the rules about interfering with a flight crew. My point is that this is not your typical "unruly passenger gets into it with overly-authoritative flight attendant" incident. The man did absolutely nothing wrong until the crew had Aviation Security forcibly remove the man, thus injuring him - an act that lead to that officer being put on leave.
My other point is that regardless of the fact that the airline has some legal language to justify the eviction of a paid and otherwise cooperative passenger, given the way this was handled, I don't think there are too many prosecutors who would want to muddy their case loads trying to convict a doctor and senior citizen who was merely trying to return home on a flight he paid for so he could return to work the next day to treat his patients. There's no jury that is going to give the prosecution a conviction on a case like this. {Particular;ly when the logical resolution to this situation was for the airline to tell one of their own employees that they were going to have a day off the next day because they couldn't get them to their destination. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons) |
Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.
Quote: | This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.
At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation. |
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc |
Assaults, threatens, or intimidates? Nope. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25075
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:52 am Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons) |
Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.
Quote: | This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.
At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation. |
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc |
I'm aware of the rules about interfering with a flight crew. My point is that this is not your typical "unruly passenger gets into it with overly-authoritative flight attendant" incident. The man did absolutely nothing wrong until the crew had Aviation Security forcibly remove the man, thus injuring him - an act that lead to that officer being put on leave.
My other point is that regardless of the fact that the airline has some legal language to justify the eviction of a paid and otherwise cooperative passenger, given the way this was handled, I don't think there are too many prosecutors who would want to muddy their case loads trying to convict a doctor and senior citizen who was merely trying to return home on a flight he paid for so he could return to work the next day to treat his patients. There's no jury that is going to give the prosecution a conviction on a case like this. {Particular;ly when the logical resolution to this situation was for the airline to tell one of their own employees that they were going to have a day off the next day because they couldn't get them to their destination. |
agreed on all points DMR. I just wanted to point out that over the years, the lawmakers wrote laws that protect airlines more than passenger. Whether this is justified or not (the law making) is debatable. I just felt that they allow the industry to becomes few big companies (less competition) and they allow them to police themselves |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | AY2043 wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | BadGuy wrote: | the cheapest airlines are almost always the worst (e.g., Delta, United, etc.). not surprised at all |
If you are paying rock bottom prices to fly, don't expect luxury service. The number of people they pack into an economy class cabin, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. You are literally being treated like cattle. |
I fly Southwest all the time and nothing like this has ever happened. They overbook quite often, but there's always enough people that take the vouchers. |
Yep. If Southwest can get me to where I'm trying to go, I'm flying with them. I've never not had a pain free, pleasant experience. |
Southwest oversold and deboarded more passengers than any other airline last year. 4 times as many as United by the figures I saw. |
Does that de-boarding stat include those who accepted vouchers and voluntarily gave up their seat?
All carriers oversell because many passengers don't show up for their flights or they miss. If you do that with Southwest or even if you cancel the flight all together, the passenger still keeps their flight credit (for up to a year). I'm guessing that's why they have the highest oversell rates.
But again, from my experience with them, there is always multiple travelers willing to take the free voucher and give up their seat. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: |
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The fact that he is Chinese has not been lost on the Chinese. It's gone viral in China too and many are calling discrimination on the part of United. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
He has something more powerful than the law on his side... social media, youtube. |
Next week no one will remember. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38775
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: |
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What a PR nightmare for United Airlines....this will take years for them to regain their trust from the customers back. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons) |
Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.
Quote: | This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.
At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation. |
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc |
I'm aware of the rules about interfering with a flight crew. My point is that this is not your typical "unruly passenger gets into it with overly-authoritative flight attendant" incident. The man did absolutely nothing wrong until the crew had Aviation Security forcibly remove the man, thus injuring him - an act that lead to that officer being put on leave.
My other point is that regardless of the fact that the airline has some legal language to justify the eviction of a paid and otherwise cooperative passenger, given the way this was handled, I don't think there are too many prosecutors who would want to muddy their case loads trying to convict a doctor and senior citizen who was merely trying to return home on a flight he paid for so he could return to work the next day to treat his patients. There's no jury that is going to give the prosecution a conviction on a case like this. {Particular;ly when the logical resolution to this situation was for the airline to tell one of their own employees that they were going to have a day off the next day because they couldn't get them to their destination. |
agreed on all points DMR. I just wanted to point out that over the years, the lawmakers wrote laws that protect airlines more than passenger. Whether this is justified or not (the law making) is debatable. I just felt that they allow the industry to becomes few big companies (less competition) and they allow them to police themselves |
Agreed. They have allowed far too much latitude to the airline industry. No paying customer should ever be forced to deplane for anything other than behavior or safety issues, and certainly not be kicked off so that an airline employee can be shuttled around. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: |
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And now some media outlets are smearing the passenger (no doubt with some prodding by United):
Media outlets smear victim of United Airlines brutality _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32752
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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The CEO is a dope. I read that email he sent out to the employees, and he really needs a better PR or PR crisis team. First off, he comes off as a defensive, disingenuous, arrogant prick. First off, enabling the cops to escalate the situation into a customer beat down was an obvious mistake, and he should have made an apology while distancing the airline to physical altercation. Second, he neglected the obvious social media-fed video, and news reports, none of which demonstrated or reported the behavior he attributed to his customer ("disruptive and belligerent"). The language used in the email would have made Kellyanne Conway proud, in describing the beat down as "re-accomodate" and that facts were "evolving" (just like "alternative facts"). |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | The CEO is a dope. I read that email he sent out to the employees, and he really needs a better PR or PR crisis team. First off, he comes off as a defensive, disingenuous, arrogant prick. First off, enabling the cops to escalate the situation into a customer beat down was an obvious mistake, and he should have made an apology while distancing the airline to physical altercation. Second, he neglected the obvious social media-fed video, and news reports, none of which demonstrated or reported the behavior he attributed to his customer ("disruptive and belligerent"). The language used in the email would have made Kellyanne Conway proud, in describing the beat down as "re-accomodate" and that facts were "evolving" (just like "alternative facts"). |
How China Could Kill United Airlines
Nearly $1 billion was wiped off of United's stock value on Tuesday.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/11/how-china-could-kill-united-airlines.html
Quote: | Given this new level of competition for United in China, in the realm of unintended consequences, Munoz’s statement is likely to turn out to be very costly. There is already an online chorus of people in China demanding that the Chinese should boycott United.
Munoz had already made a maladroit statement that resorted to the euphemism “having to re-accommodate these customers” when describing what happened, and said his airline was “reaching out” to the specific victim to “further address and resolve this situation.”
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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PRLakeShow Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 10460
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I hope everyone boycotts United. (bleep) them and (bleep) everyone who's actually siding with them. Worthless human beings. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13823 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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The CEO has to have been given his position via nepotism
The guy should not have said anything until he talked to several lawyers and especially a few Chinese ones..
They can't throw this on anyone but their own decision makers.. they told the authorities to remove the passenger
I just wish it would've been me they knocked out and dragged down the aisle... $$$$$$ |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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This website has been running for 20 years. It was one of the first consumer complaint websites.
http://untied.com/main.shtml |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25075
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | governator wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | governator wrote: | Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons) |
Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.
Quote: | This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)
We need new lawmakers |
You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.
At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation. |
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc |
Assaults, threatens, or intimidates? Nope. |
My point was that airline company has the law behind them that any passenger (even paying) that interfere with the flight crew can be charged criminally. What is the definition of interfere legally, prob wanna ask a lawyer but it's pretty broad. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | The fact that he is Chinese has not been lost on the Chinese. It's gone viral in China too and many are calling discrimination on the part of United. |
I thought I read that he is Vietnamese. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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