Westbrook chasing history
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Westbrook is not playing with scrubs. Westbrook hasn't drug some talent ridden team to the postseason.


This is a common message board phenomenon. When comparing two players, the opposing factions trash their favored player's teammates. We used to see this all the time with the Kobe vs. Lebron threads. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

For what it's worth, I'd say that Harden has marginally better teammates. I doubt that will make any difference in the MVP voting. I expect Westbrook to win because he made some big shots and had some particularly big games down the stretch. It's the recency effect. The NBA must be loving the fact that Harden and Westbrook will go head to head in the first round, while this argument is still raging.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
rebirthoftheM wrote:
Right now, the thunder are 46-34 with Westbrook (he missed tonights game). Solid 6th seed. But when Westbrook sits (as the data shows), they are one of the worst teams in the league. That is "impact"...


It's hard to separate this from "environmental" factors. OKC's average margin of victory is +0.8. Houston's average margin of victory is +5.8. Under those circumstances, you would expect Westbrook's absence to have a greater impact than Harden's. Just for sake of discussion, assume that they are both worth +4.0 (which is a number I just plucked out of the air). Houston would be +1.8 without Harden, and OKC would be -3.2 without Westbrook. Does that mean that Westbrook is more valuable? In a sense, it does, but that isn't what most people consider to be the essence of the MVP award.


Yeah. In one sense, it's like saying a player less is valuable if he has a better backup because the team doesn't lose as much when he takes a rest. Not a factor in mvp for me.
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focus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject:

Deleted - duplicate

Last edited by focus on Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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focus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
focus wrote:

Ryan Anderson is a great shooter


And he sucks on defense. Roberson is a great defender that sucks on offense.

focus wrote:
Eric G a very talented starter Level pg.


And yet worse than Oladipo.

focus wrote:

Lou now nene quality experienced guys. Capela.


And Adams, Kanter and Taj aren't?

Neither guy is playing with elite talent. However, near everyone had the OKC talent above the Houston talent preseason. Same for predicted win totals.

Westbrook is not playing with scrubs. Westbrook hasn't drug some talent ridden team to the postseason.


I can't do the point by point quote quickly, sorry for that.

Adams and Kanter are what 24, 25? Not really wise ol dudes. Taj you have a point, though he integrated late in the season. Still useful in the playoffs.
I am not up on their current seasons, but EGordon was a pretty quality guy in his prime. Never though of Oladipo as the same, but as I say, not up currently. Beverly is a great defender that is solid enough on offense.
Trevor Ariza has more experience than all of the other guys. Also MDA's system is the best teammate a Harden could ever have, like a Nash. Two offensive star talents with significant liabilities.

But I bet you anything if Harden gets to the WCF, and puts up similar or even lesser numbers next year on a contending team (as Phx was), he will get the Nash system-blessed, offense only, defense optional MVP treatment.

I am hassling you slightly in fun - he's had a great season and I am impressed with what he did this season (has continued to grow) on a not unbelievably talented team. Nash had Amare, Marion and others. But WB gets my vote. I admit a personality bias toward WB over Harden, given Harden's career D rep relative to WB's more blatantly obvious effort.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/04/12/oscar-robertson-to-attend-thunder-regular-season-finale/

Quote:
Oscar Robertson to attend Thunder regular-season finale


OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oscar Robertson plans to attend Wednesday night’s regular-season finale between the Thunder and the Denver Nuggets, where he will get to see Thunder guard Russell Westbrook play in person.

Westbrook broke Robertson’s single-season record for triple-doubles on Sunday. The Thunder confirmed Robertson’s expected appearance in an email, saying Robertson will attend as part of the Thunder’s effort to honor Westbrook’s season. ESPN first reported Robertson’s plans.

Robertson set the record of 41 triple-doubles for the Cincinnati Royals during the 1961-62 season. Westbrook broke it with a 50-point, 16-rebound, 10 assist performance in Denver on Sunday, and his buzzer-beating, game-winning 3-pointer knocked the Nuggets out of the playoffs. Westbrook also is the first player since Robertson to average a triple-double for an entire season.
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