LeBron passes Shaq for 7th in all-time scoring
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject:

To be the GOAT, LeBron has to be better than Kareem and MJ. I don't think he is.
There's still Wilt, Oscar, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem and Shaq who all can be argued against LeBron
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focus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
focus wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
DGodRussell wrote:
The Logo wrote:
Gonna retire as the GOAT

That's a good joke
When it's all said and done, as much as I loathe Lebron, he'll be in the conversation of top 3-5.


For a lot of people, if not most, he's already there.


He's in the conversation for 8-12 slots for sure. If he repeats his great feat from last year a couple more times, he's definitely in the conversation for top 5-7, maybe more.


Lebron generates emotional reactions, especially on LG, and it can be difficult to gauge a player's ultimate ranking while his career is going full force. That said, most of the recent rankings I've seen from the big sports publications have routinely put Lebron in the top 5 already, with some putting him as high as 2.

I wouldn't go that high myself, but at this point I think he'd be a safe bet for top 5 if his career ended today. If "he repeats his great feat from last year a couple more times," the only debate would be whether Jordan is still ahead of him.


I agree there is a lot of emotion about him and always has been. I remember watching his very first rookie game and seeing a pass that blew my mind. A few years back I saw an instinctive touch pass he did that did the same. i might have said something about it here, but I don't remember. See my other reply about the 'great feat', I just meant rings.
The big sports pubs are creatures of the moment (like all pubs really, especially political) so they may change their mind when the next guy comes around but that is just to say it's a popularity contest and Kareem and Kobe were not merely dull or unquotable but often unpopular with the media at different stages. These rankings and specifically the criteria for them are always tough to pin down but to me Lebron has some distance to go to match up with the guys above him. And when people say top 2, with Kareem or MJ, I just think they are influenced strongly by recent events. As with politics, and definitely business. Actually just human nature.

He is a legend for sure. I think his defense from a career standpoint is underrated actually, and people do not make enough of Lebron's Magic ish passing IMO. I am glad his control of the game is well-regarded, knowing game flow, teammate predilections, and opponents who are getting mentally squirrelly. And I actually think getting to so many finals is a great plus overall, not a minus, but full disclosure I am with those that think teaming up with the great DWade made it relatively easy diminishing those two a bit. But you can't discount his always being there, playing with completely different teams, the huge stats, his influence on his teammates on and off the court and particularly in the playoffs how he gets them there.
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focus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
To be the GOAT, LeBron has to be better than Kareem and MJ. I don't think he is.
There's still Wilt, Oscar, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem and Shaq who all can be argued against LeBron


I get what you mean about Hakeem (I am a huge fan) but that's a tough argument. Duncan is one I forgot in my prior comments, and as I said, the popularity factor hurts some players in these rankings. I think he unfortunately will be one that people will just discount too because he was so quiet.
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject:

1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 Kobe Bryant 33,643
4 Michael Jordan 32,292
5 Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
6 DIRK NOWITZKI 30,260
7 LeBRON JAMES 28,787

Lebron's at about 1950 pts per season for the last 2 years, 1750 3 years ago, and 2000 the year before that. Let's call that 1900 per just to run the math

to catch MJ: 3505 pts difference, or 1.8 seasons
to catch Kobe: 4856 pts, or 2.5 seasons
to catch Malone: 8141 pts, or 4.28 seasons

Since catching Malone is 4+ years away, it's logical to think his yearly scoring total will go down between now and then, so it might take more like 5 years there.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 Kobe Bryant 33,643
4 Michael Jordan 32,292
5 Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
6 DIRK NOWITZKI 30,260
7 LeBRON JAMES 28,787

Lebron's at about 1950 pts per season for the last 2 years, 1750 3 years ago, and 2000 the year before that. Let's call that 1900 per just to run the math

to catch MJ: 3505 pts difference, or 1.8 seasons
to catch Kobe: 4856 pts, or 2.5 seasons
to catch Malone: 8141 pts, or 4.28 seasons

Since catching Malone is 4+ years away, it's logical to think his yearly scoring total will go down between now and then, so it might take more like 5 years there.


If you add in their Playoff scoring, here is their totals.

1. KAJ - 44,149
2. Malone - 41, 689
3. Kobe - 39,283
4. Jordan - 38,279
5. Wilt - 35,026
6. Lebron - 34,359
7. Dirk - 33,923
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Lebron is without a doubt one of the top 10 players of all time, but he's also one of the most overrated and overhyped players ever. People talk about how the truly great players "make their teammates better". Part of that is raising the level of your team's play in the championship series, even if you have to do it yourself. Lebron thus far has been really lackluster in the NBA finals, and he lacks the killer instinct or love for being the underdog and overcoming adversity that Magic/Bird/MJ/Kobe had. He can make us forget about that by winning the next two titles, but it'll be extremely hard with the Warriors being as great as they are and the Spurs being as strong as they've ever been.

I know people have different criteria for judging greatness, and that many fans these days are obsessed with stats and analytics, but I personally value what Wooden called "competitive greatness", playing your best when your best is really needed on the big stage. I guess watching Kobe do that for all those years spoiled me.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

Barring serious injury, he'll be able to end his career #2 on the list.
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nevitt_smrek
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Lebron is without a doubt one of the top 10 players of all time, but he's also one of the most overrated and overhyped players ever. People talk about how the truly great players "make their teammates better". Part of that is raising the level of your team's play in the championship series, even if you have to do it yourself. Lebron thus far has been really lackluster in the NBA finals, and he lacks the killer instinct or love for being the underdog and overcoming adversity that Magic/Bird/MJ/Kobe had. He can make us forget about that by winning the next two titles, but it'll be extremely hard with the Warriors being as great as they are and the Spurs being as strong as they've ever been.

I know people have different criteria for judging greatness, and that many fans these days are obsessed with stats and analytics, but I personally value what Wooden called "competitive greatness", playing your best when your best is really needed on the big stage. I guess watching Kobe do that for all those years spoiled me.


Oh yea, being 40% career shooter in the NBA finals is excellent. So great on the big stage. Couldn't imagine anybody doing better than that. My goodness. Kobe really attracts the non-saavy basketball fan, similar to how Apple attracts non-savvy tech people. Clueless.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
slavavov wrote:
Lebron is without a doubt one of the top 10 players of all time, but he's also one of the most overrated and overhyped players ever. People talk about how the truly great players "make their teammates better". Part of that is raising the level of your team's play in the championship series, even if you have to do it yourself. Lebron thus far has been really lackluster in the NBA finals, and he lacks the killer instinct or love for being the underdog and overcoming adversity that Magic/Bird/MJ/Kobe had. He can make us forget about that by winning the next two titles, but it'll be extremely hard with the Warriors being as great as they are and the Spurs being as strong as they've ever been.

I know people have different criteria for judging greatness, and that many fans these days are obsessed with stats and analytics, but I personally value what Wooden called "competitive greatness", playing your best when your best is really needed on the big stage. I guess watching Kobe do that for all those years spoiled me.


Oh yea, being 40% career shooter in the NBA finals is excellent. So great on the big stage. Couldn't imagine anybody doing better than that. My goodness. Kobe really attracts the non-saavy basketball fan, similar to how Apple attracts non-savvy tech people. Clueless.

Overall FG% can be deceptive sometimes. You have to look at the actual games one by one. I looked through Larry Bird's box scores from the finals and found that in almost half of those games he shot badly. Does that mean that Bird was massively overrated?

And BTW, Lebron's 2015 finals performance is said to be one of the greatest ever, but he shot 40% in that series and only shot well in game 1 of that series. What do you think about that?
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