OFFICIAL TIMOFEY MOZGOV THREAD
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BobbyB wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This is pretty simple.

Bad contract.

Next year, he still probably starts at center.

Would I rather have the 16m/year back? Absolutely.


Bad contract. But still serviceable player. On same tier as plenty of centers with similar contract numbers.

We lack players at his position with size.

IMO Deng's contract is way worse because we have players that are better than him at position at this point. Randle/Nance.


That's fine, but obviously in hindsight, most of us would rather have 16m/year back.


For sure Its nice to have flexibility. Lets see what the Lakers are able to do this summer.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject:

It's like paying premium $$$ to watch Godfather 3 on opening night and then watching the movie and saying...damn, I want my $ back.
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davidse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
^^^ exactly. The piss poor GM's that gave those horrible contracts got fired for doing so. Justifying our dead weight because other idiots did the same is a fallacy for an argument.

It's a horrible contract for his level of talent. He is a replacement lev talent that we are paying Superstar money to. Money that could have been used elsewhere or saved for this year.

Absolute recklessness in spending a scarce resource


This will always be the bottom line

Bogut
Aldrich
Monroe
Dedmon
Maybe even Nene/Hibbert

Would have all been better short term fits when you include the contract than giving Mozgov 4y/64M. Especially when you realize Mozgov would only be playing 20MPG.


None would have been better, none of them played decently this season except maybe Dedmon.

I'm guessing you didn't pay much attention to Monroe who has improved on defense this season. But as long as you include Mozgov with list of not playing decently.


Monroe has not improved on defense. I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Because of 1 game in the playoffs were he played ok and took a charge people are claiming he can play defense. the guy is one of the worst defenders at the C position in the NBA and comes off the bench. Go back and watch game 1 there are plenty of situations were he was lost or messed up PnR coverage.

this is the media driven BS.


No it isn't.

It's a claim I made months ago about his defensive game (particularly disruptions and steals) and his passing being underrated.
one thing that he's not though is a shotblocker if you want to argue that.
But this isn't new and it isn't b.s. for anyone who has followed him this season.
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
^^^ exactly. The piss poor GM's that gave those horrible contracts got fired for doing so. Justifying our dead weight because other idiots did the same is a fallacy for an argument.

It's a horrible contract for his level of talent. He is a replacement lev talent that we are paying Superstar money to. Money that could have been used elsewhere or saved for this year.

Absolute recklessness in spending a scarce resource


This will always be the bottom line

Bogut
Aldrich
Monroe
Dedmon
Maybe even Nene/Hibbert

Would have all been better short term fits when you include the contract than giving Mozgov 4y/64M. Especially when you realize Mozgov would only be playing 20MPG.


None would have been better, none of them played decently this season except maybe Dedmon.

I'm guessing you didn't pay much attention to Monroe who has improved on defense this season. But as long as you include Mozgov with list of not playing decently.


Monroe has not improved on defense. I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Because of 1 game in the playoffs were he played ok and took a charge people are claiming he can play defense. the guy is one of the worst defenders at the C position in the NBA and comes off the bench. Go back and watch game 1 there are plenty of situations were he was lost or messed up PnR coverage.

this is the media driven BS.


I didn't even see the first game or hear anything about the first game.

"Greg Monroe has a 19.6% defensive turnover rate per Synergy! Heís forcing a turnover 20% of the time!"
https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/851952528119955456

"Greg Monroe Has Become A Defense-First Player"
http://behindthebuckpass.com/2016/11/09/greg-monroe-become-defense-first-player/

"The Bucks' defense has improved since the break. Giannis Antetokounmpo and Greg Monroe are leading the charge"
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/milwaukee-bucks-defense-giannis-antetokounmpo-greg-monroe-032917

"All Hands on Deck"
http://www.espn.com/blog/milwaukee/post/_/id/1220/all-hands-on-deck

He clearly isnt an above average defender, but he has improved. And it's not like Mozgov set the bar high this past year. They had the exact same % defending the rim (53.8% vs 53.5%) and both are liabilities in the PnR
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject:

Thats fine.

Its like me making a claim that Mozgov is on the same tier as Greg Monroe (which he is ) and other posters shutting it down.
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davidse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject:

Same tier ?
Wat ?

ok, time to bow out.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject:

First off Monroe Comes of the bench and his playing time was inconsistent this season.

Secondly the Bucks have a crazy Defensive team. With so much length and activity.

Thon maker was insane first game
Snell- super long
Giannis
Dellevadova - you can lol but hes a legit scrappy defender.

Are perimeter defense was so bad that it created a lot of tough situation for MOZ.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
Same tier ?
Wat ?

ok, time to bow out.


Exactly.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:14 am    Post subject:

2017 Player Capsule: Timofey Mozgov




Quote:
Season Summary:
It was an underwhelming debut season for Timofey Mozgov, who averaged 7.4 points and 4.9 rebounds in 20.4 minutes before sitting the final five weeks in order to give more minutes to the teamís younger players. Mozgov admitted to hearing ďa lotĒ of fan criticism and said that it was tough for him to not play at the end of the year. When he was on the floor, he shot 51.5 percent from the field and was the teamís last line of defense.



http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170420-player-capsule-timofey-mozgov
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Sina
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:01 am    Post subject:

I don't minded to keep Mozgov for 1-2 more season as Zubac is still too raw. We need an experienced 7 footer
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject:

Moz is the better of the two to keep, between Him and Deng. Moz can keep mentoring and training Zubac for another season or two. Moz can start and play 26-28 minutes a game and let Zubac play the balance of minutes next season. That's pretty decent depth, although we will have problems with small ball centers.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
I don't minded to keep Mozgov for 1-2 more season as Zubac is still too raw. We need an experienced 7 footer


Agreed. I think that Moz is still serviceable, and bigs do get payed. Deng otoh is someone I'm dying to trade.
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
I don't minded to keep Mozgov for 1-2 more season as Zubac is still too raw. We need an experienced 7 footer


Zubac isnt raw he just needs to learn the game more, I wouldn't mind if we get another big though.
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject:

^^^
Maybe not raw but 25 pounds of muscle needs to be filled out first.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject:

Mozgov played fine when he got playing time. He's a veteran we should keep. Till Zubac is ready to start, and then Mozgov would be his backup, probably the best backup we could ever ask for for Zubac tbh.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:51 am    Post subject:

Mozgov + Houston's pick for Biyombo.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:

The Grind wrote:
Sina wrote:
I don't minded to keep Mozgov for 1-2 more season as Zubac is still too raw. We need an experienced 7 footer


Agreed. I think that Moz is still serviceable, and bigs do get payed. Deng otoh is someone I'm dying to trade.


Exactly. Bigs get payed! regardless of what fans perspective of them are.

I wouldn't say I'm dying to trade Deng. But he should be the one to go if we are looking to create salary cap space. The reasoning, is we have multiple players who are at his position. Its that simple.

You just don't get rid of Mozgov for no reason. We are going to need a big and if you look around the league all centers are making ridiculous money. And none are itching to come to a losing team where the coach prefers small ball.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:


You just don't get rid of Mozgov for no reason.



Unfortunately, however, that reality doesn't exist. The reason we get rid of him is the 3 years still remaining on his sizable contract and the 3 years remaining on Deng's. If you can undo one of those deals and it has to be Mozgov, you do it. No questions asked, no other reasons needed.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
BobbyB wrote:


You just don't get rid of Mozgov for no reason.



Unfortunately, however, that reality doesn't exist. The reason we get rid of him is the 3 years still remaining on his sizable contract and the 3 years remaining on Deng's. If you can undo one of those deals and it has to be Mozgov, you do it. No questions asked, no other reasons needed.


Nope I'm asking question and I need reasons,

why Mozgov over Deng.

WE are stacked at the PF position. Which according to many is where Deng would be most successful playing.

We have absolutely no one at C besides Zubac. And IMO along with many others I have read. We cannot depend on ZUbac to give us 82 games against the best centers in the league.

Tarik Black and small ball work in small samples. There's a reason why our defense was so horrible this year. Its because of the amount of small ball Luke tried to play.

IMO Deng should be the one to let go.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject:

I'm saying I doubt we have the luxury or the choice to get rid of one or the other. If you can get rid of one, you get rid of whomever you can don't worry about fit. Neither moves the bar enough to even worry about it.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
I'm saying I doubt we have the luxury or the choice to get rid of one or the other. If you can get rid of one, you get rid of whomever you can don't worry about fit. Neither moves the bar enough to even worry about it.


Well at first you said it has to be Mozgov so that's what I responded with.

I agree though if there's a deal where you can get rid of Mozgov or Deng that makes sense you have to do it.

For example: if we are doing a trade with Indiana for PG and they for some reason prefer Mozgov over Deng. That wouldn't hold up the deal haha.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject:

Yeah, I think if you read my comment too fast you can easily skip over the part where I say "AND it has to be Mozgov."
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Yeah, I think if you read my comment too fast you can easily skip over the part where I say "AND it has to be Mozgov."


that's exactly what I did!
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Sina wrote:
I don't minded to keep Mozgov for 1-2 more season as Zubac is still too raw. We need an experienced 7 footer


Zubac isnt raw he just needs to learn the game more, I wouldn't mind if we get another big though.


We have Mozgov, Zubac, Randle and Nance playing the center spot. Who else do we need?
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Sina wrote:
I don't minded to keep Mozgov for 1-2 more season as Zubac is still too raw. We need an experienced 7 footer


Zubac isnt raw he just needs to learn the game more, I wouldn't mind if we get another big though.


We have Mozgov, Zubac, Randle and Nance playing the center spot. Who else do we need?


randle and NAnce cannot be asked to play Center all the time. There position is PF...There are times we can go small but to depend on that is not the right move imo.

Our defense was terrible when we went small this season.
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