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tox
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 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
I actually don't think that many people would disagree with your statement. I don't. I mean I think Russell is the better player, but in terms of tiers, they mostly sit at the same spot right now. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | tox wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Hezonja and Mudiay have both proven nothing in the NBA so far while Booker and Porzingis, the two guys who are interchangeable with Russell haven't sniffed the playoffs either. |
Nor has Towns, but he's a clear tier above everyone in his draft class. Which is why the whole "Well he's on a bad team" angle is super reductive. We can even criticize Towns for not playing much defense, but at the end of the day, that team lost 51 games in spite of Towns' performance. We can make evaluations on players even if they're on bad teams. |
Yeah the thing I was mainly refuting was the Mudiay and Hezonja compairsons when they've done nothing on non playoff teams. |
For sure you are right.
Although I do believe Mudiay is getting a bad rap here. But that's fine. He didn't really do much to improve his stock this season. But I think that's more attributed to the Nuggets being in competition for a playoff spot and him getting injured halfway through the season. I expect him given the opportunity to have a better season |
The irony is you make excuses for porky and mudiay but seem to give little latitude for DLo. I don't think that's very objective. |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
Gets too much love here? Good lord. This is a LAKERS site. When is that a sin?
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BobbyB
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | tox wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Hezonja and Mudiay have both proven nothing in the NBA so far while Booker and Porzingis, the two guys who are interchangeable with Russell haven't sniffed the playoffs either. |
Nor has Towns, but he's a clear tier above everyone in his draft class. Which is why the whole "Well he's on a bad team" angle is super reductive. We can even criticize Towns for not playing much defense, but at the end of the day, that team lost 51 games in spite of Towns' performance. We can make evaluations on players even if they're on bad teams. |
Yeah the thing I was mainly refuting was the Mudiay and Hezonja compairsons when they've done nothing on non playoff teams. |
For sure you are right.
Although I do believe Mudiay is getting a bad rap here. But that's fine. He didn't really do much to improve his stock this season. But I think that's more attributed to the Nuggets being in competition for a playoff spot and him getting injured halfway through the season. I expect him given the opportunity to have a better season |
The irony is you make excuses for porky and mudiay but seem to give little latitude for DLo. I don't think that's very objective. |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
Gets too much love here? Good lord. This is a LAKERS site. When is that a sin? |
 def not a sin. Just hard to have rational conversation sometimes. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Lol. I would argue that Dlo "supporters" tend to bring in facts and data whilst the detractors tend to argue non empirical things. Where is the lack of rationale?
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| The vast majority of "Russell love" in this thread is actually people defending him. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | LakersChamps04 wrote: | do people believe in "eye tests" any more?
watching the two, imho, booker is better than russel at this point and time in their careers
think of it this way. if you could choose between adding one of the two to your team, which would you choose? right now, i would choose booker and i think many teams in the league would do the same. maybe not every, but the majority. |
I prefer Booker and he has a higher ceiling. He is already an elite scorer in his 2nd year and having his Mamba moment to boot. With all that confidence and if the Suns surround him with the right supporting cast, hide him in defense and give him all that greenlight , he will be tearing it up. He is like a scoring assasin because a lot of times he's making it look easy and smooth. DLo can't breakdown defenders like Booker can.
Having said that, I will pick Dlo as a better 2nd or 3rd option. Better passer, better in catch and shoot and a better complimentary player. |
So you like scoring over defense, rebounding, and playmaking? If that is your thing then enjoy it, but I prefer the things that win ball games and titles. |
Hold on , no team has even sniff the playoff yet.
I just said Booker has a higher ceiling and already an elite scorer and that is why I think he's a better player. If you ask me who do I prefer as a 2nd option to Ingram then Dlo all day long. It's like Rick Fox and Glen Rice, Ricewas the better player but with the Lakers I prefer Foxy, way better defender and better complimentary player . |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
I actually don't think that many people would disagree with your statement. I don't. I mean I think Russell is the better player, but in terms of tiers, they mostly sit at the same spot right now. |
love DLO...don't love blind loyalty to a player |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Scoffs wrote: | | I think we have to keep Russell as bait for KAT, Simmons, or Booker when they become free agents. Stay patient. |
He is better than two of those players, so no. |
This is probably the only place on earth where you can find people who think Russell is better than Booker. |
Yes, some of us can ignore the hype machine that is ESPN. And I never mentioned Booker so you apparently agree and was ready to defend him. Caught in your own trap. |
Caught in what trap? What are you talking about? You said he was better than two of those players. He's not better than Kat, so that leaves Simmons and Booker.
I've already conceded the only place on earth was an exaggeration. But yes, I do believe he's overvalued here. And yes I think Booker is the better player at the moment. I also acknowledged that an argument can be made for Russell with analytics. In hindsight it seems to be a silly thing to be arguing about since neither have reached their ceiling. Projecting talent and potential is challenging. Analytics would tell you that Bron was better than Kobe. I will also admit there are issues with the "eye test". I might be wrong but as of now Booker looks like he's going to be a problem. Russell appears to be a trending towards being a solid guard. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | LakersChamps04 wrote: | do people believe in "eye tests" any more?
watching the two, imho, booker is better than russel at this point and time in their careers
think of it this way. if you could choose between adding one of the two to your team, which would you choose? right now, i would choose booker and i think many teams in the league would do the same. maybe not every, but the majority. |
I prefer Booker and he has a higher ceiling. He is already an elite scorer in his 2nd year and having his Mamba moment to boot. With all that confidence and if the Suns surround him with the right supporting cast, hide him in defense and give him all that greenlight , he will be tearing it up. He is like a scoring assasin because a lot of times he's making it look easy and smooth. DLo can't breakdown defenders like Booker can.
Having said that, I will pick Dlo as a better 2nd or 3rd option. Better passer, better in catch and shoot and a better complimentary player. |
So you like scoring over defense, rebounding, and playmaking? If that is your thing then enjoy it, but I prefer the things that win ball games and titles. |
Hold on , no team has even sniff the playoff yet.
I just said Booker has a higher ceiling and already an elite scorer and that is why I think he's a better player. If you ask me who do I prefer as a 2nd option to Ingram then Dlo all day long. It's like Rick Fox and Glen Rice, Ricewas the better player but with the Lakers I prefer Foxy, way better defender and better complimentary player . |
*screams into rage pillow* |
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crucifixion
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | tox wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
I actually don't think that many people would disagree with your statement. I don't. I mean I think Russell is the better player, but in terms of tiers, they mostly sit at the same spot right now. |
love DLO...don't love blind loyalty to a player |
Agree with all |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | tox wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Hezonja and Mudiay have both proven nothing in the NBA so far while Booker and Porzingis, the two guys who are interchangeable with Russell haven't sniffed the playoffs either. |
Nor has Towns, but he's a clear tier above everyone in his draft class. Which is why the whole "Well he's on a bad team" angle is super reductive. We can even criticize Towns for not playing much defense, but at the end of the day, that team lost 51 games in spite of Towns' performance. We can make evaluations on players even if they're on bad teams. |
Despite what a lot people on this board believe.
I think Porzignis is on the same tier as Towns as well.
Just a toxic situation in New York this Season.
I'm predicting Kristaps to have a monster year next season minus Anthony on that team. |
I don't see that at all. His play gets worse over the year. Could be fatigue or nagging injuries. KAT is much better now than Porky. But this is why it's silly to argue who is a bigger star in their 2nd years. |
Agree.
But to reply to your post, It is fatigue and injuries that worsen his play throughout the season. You are right. I also think playing with Anthony is not easy but what do I know haha.
Towns has stayed healthy and productive. |
And the prospects of injury were the main reason that the Lakers selected DLO over Porzingis. So far our FO was spot on. |
Is there a quote that says that. Or are you just implying that a 7'3 guy is more likely to be injured? |
That was the FO's train of thought, that a guy that frail and that big playing the perimeter typically leads to injury.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Scoffs wrote: | | I think we have to keep Russell as bait for KAT, Simmons, or Booker when they become free agents. Stay patient. |
He is better than two of those players, so no. |
This is probably the only place on earth where you can find people who think Russell is better than Booker. |
Yes, some of us can ignore the hype machine that is ESPN. And I never mentioned Booker so you apparently agree and was ready to defend him. Caught in your own trap. |
Caught in what trap? What are you talking about? You said he was better than two of those players. He's not better than Kat, so that leaves Simmons and Booker.
I've already conceded the only place on earth was an exaggeration. But yes, I do believe he's overvalued here. And yes I think Booker is the better player at the moment. I also acknowledged that an argument can be made for Russell with analytics. In hindsight it seems to be a silly thing to be arguing about since neither have reached their ceiling. Projecting talent and potential is challenging. Analytics would tell you that Bron was better than Kobe. I will also admit there are issues with the "eye test". I might be wrong but as of now Booker looks like he's going to be a problem. Russell appears to be a trending towards being a solid guard. |
All the numbers are pointing to Lebron as a better player. When it comes to eye test, Kobe has way better aesthetically pleasing game and has more complete offensive arsenal. And Kobe was clutch and fearless, zero fcuks given if he miss or not while Lebron is more grounded. Who's better and who do you prefer depends on what you like the most and value better. |
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governator
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Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | LakersChamps04 wrote: | do people believe in "eye tests" any more?
watching the two, imho, booker is better than russel at this point and time in their careers
think of it this way. if you could choose between adding one of the two to your team, which would you choose? right now, i would choose booker and i think many teams in the league would do the same. maybe not every, but the majority. |
I prefer Booker and he has a higher ceiling. He is already an elite scorer in his 2nd year and having his Mamba moment to boot. With all that confidence and if the Suns surround him with the right supporting cast, hide him in defense and give him all that greenlight , he will be tearing it up. He is like a scoring assasin because a lot of times he's making it look easy and smooth. DLo can't breakdown defenders like Booker can.
Having said that, I will pick Dlo as a better 2nd or 3rd option. Better passer, better in catch and shoot and a better complimentary player. |
So you like scoring over defense, rebounding, and playmaking? If that is your thing then enjoy it, but I prefer the things that win ball games and titles. |
Hold on , no team has even sniff the playoff yet.
I just said Booker has a higher ceiling and already an elite scorer and that is why I think he's a better player. If you ask me who do I prefer as a 2nd option to Ingram then Dlo all day long. It's like Rick Fox and Glen Rice, Ricewas the better player but with the Lakers I prefer Foxy, way better defender and better complimentary player . |
*screams into rage pillow* |
lol, breath mod breath. Somebody already said there's too much DLo love in here... breath |
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vlonethug
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | LakersChamps04 wrote: | do people believe in "eye tests" any more?
watching the two, imho, booker is better than russel at this point and time in their careers
think of it this way. if you could choose between adding one of the two to your team, which would you choose? right now, i would choose booker and i think many teams in the league would do the same. maybe not every, but the majority. |
I prefer Booker and he has a higher ceiling. He is already an elite scorer in his 2nd year and having his Mamba moment to boot. With all that confidence and if the Suns surround him with the right supporting cast, hide him in defense and give him all that greenlight , he will be tearing it up. He is like a scoring assasin because a lot of times he's making it look easy and smooth. DLo can't breakdown defenders like Booker can.
Having said that, I will pick Dlo as a better 2nd or 3rd option. Better passer, better in catch and shoot and a better complimentary player. |
So you like scoring over defense, rebounding, and playmaking? If that is your thing then enjoy it, but I prefer the things that win ball games and titles. |
Hold on , no team has even sniff the playoff yet.
I just said Booker has a higher ceiling and already an elite scorer and that is why I think he's a better player. If you ask me who do I prefer as a 2nd option to Ingram then Dlo all day long. It's like Rick Fox and Glen Rice, Ricewas the better player but with the Lakers I prefer Foxy, way better defender and better complimentary player . |
*screams into rage pillow* |
THE CEILING IS THE ROOF. |
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nash
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
I actually don't think that many people would disagree with your statement. I don't. I mean I think Russell is the better player, but in terms of tiers, they mostly sit at the same spot right now. |
+1 |
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nash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | tox wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Hezonja and Mudiay have both proven nothing in the NBA so far while Booker and Porzingis, the two guys who are interchangeable with Russell haven't sniffed the playoffs either. |
Nor has Towns, but he's a clear tier above everyone in his draft class. Which is why the whole "Well he's on a bad team" angle is super reductive. We can even criticize Towns for not playing much defense, but at the end of the day, that team lost 51 games in spite of Towns' performance. We can make evaluations on players even if they're on bad teams. |
Yeah the thing I was mainly refuting was the Mudiay and Hezonja compairsons when they've done nothing on non playoff teams. |
For sure you are right.
Although I do believe Mudiay is getting a bad rap here. But that's fine. He didn't really do much to improve his stock this season. But I think that's more attributed to the Nuggets being in competition for a playoff spot and him getting injured halfway through the season. I expect him given the opportunity to have a better season |
The irony is you make excuses for porky and mudiay but seem to give little latitude for DLo. I don't think that's very objective. |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
Gets too much love here? Good lord. This is a LAKERS site. When is that a sin? |
def not a sin. Just hard to have rational conversation sometimes. |
This |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
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What I think is unnecessary is the zero sum nature. Both DLo and booker can be great and in the same tier down the road. Not sure why some frame it as if we got a bust player when it's clearly no longer a question.
It's like watching them baby turtles hatch and get out to the see. For guys like Oak and Mudiay they may be fighting off the crabs while baby turtles KAT, porky, DLo, turner and booker are already in the water.
Now, whether they end up being badass Teenage Ninja Turtles? Too soon. 
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nash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lol. I would argue that Dlo "supporters" tend to bring in facts and data whilst the detractors tend to argue non empirical things. Where is the lack of rationale? |
Let's start under the premise that supporters and detractors are Lakers fans and they all want to see the team succeeding.
The so called detractors can have absolutely the same impressions about so called supporters.
Dave20 was a huge Clarkson supporter, but he was just one. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Scoffs wrote: | | I think we have to keep Russell as bait for KAT, Simmons, or Booker when they become free agents. Stay patient. |
He is better than two of those players, so no. |
This is probably the only place on earth where you can find people who think Russell is better than Booker. |
Yes, some of us can ignore the hype machine that is ESPN. And I never mentioned Booker so you apparently agree and was ready to defend him. Caught in your own trap. |
Caught in what trap? What are you talking about? You said he was better than two of those players. He's not better than Kat, so that leaves Simmons and Booker.
I've already conceded the only place on earth was an exaggeration. But yes, I do believe he's overvalued here. And yes I think Booker is the better player at the moment. I also acknowledged that an argument can be made for Russell with analytics. In hindsight it seems to be a silly thing to be arguing about since neither have reached their ceiling. Projecting talent and potential is challenging. Analytics would tell you that Bron was better than Kobe. I will also admit there are issues with the "eye test". I might be wrong but as of now Booker looks like he's going to be a problem. Russell appears to be a trending towards being a solid guard. |
All the numbers are pointing to Lebron as a better player. When it comes to eye test, Kobe has way better aesthetically pleasing game and has more complete offensive arsenal. And Kobe was clutch and fearless, zero fcuks given if he miss or not while Lebron is more grounded. Who's better and who do you prefer depends on what you like the most and value better. |
There is no "pressure" statistic.. It's kinda hard to argue against raw numbers. And that's why I referenced Bron vs Kobe.. You can't measure the kind of pressure Kobes aggression put on opposing teams, and how it created opportunities for his teammates. That pressure imprints on the game. I see the same dynamic with the Russ vs Booker discussion. Booker's pressure is more impactful in my opinion. |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | What I think is unnecessary is the zero sum nature. Both DLo and booker can be great and in the same tier down the road. Not sure why some frame it as if we got a bust player when it's clearly no longer a question.
It's like watching them baby turtles hatch and get out to the see. For guys like Oak and Mudiay they may be fighting off the crabs while baby turtles KAT, porky, DLo, turner and booker are already in the water.
Now, whether they end up being badass Teenage Ninja Turtles? Too soon. |
You almost make me feel sympathy towards them |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: |
There is no "pressure" statistic.. It's kinda hard to argue against raw numbers. And that's why I referenced Bron vs Kobe.. You can't measure the kind of pressure Kobes aggression put on opposing teams, and how it created opportunities for his teammates. That pressure imprints on the game. I see the same dynamic with the Russ vs Booker discussion. Booker's pressure is more impactful in my opinion. |
You can. Kobe's offensive RAPM scores were always higher than his "OBPM" (the best offensive box score in my estimation) scores would estimate. That's the general sign of a player undersold by box score stats.
http://public.tableau.com/views/BPMvs_RAPM/BoxPlusMinusvs_14YearRAPM?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no&:display_count=y&:display_static_image=y&:bootstrapWhenNotified=true
Defense is another story, but that doesn't surprise anyone since Kobe didn't give a (bleep) about defense in the regular season post-Shaq.
You'll note that offensively Kobe and LeBron are actually quite close on ORAPM, though LeBron still comes out ahead (7.2 to 6.2).
And yes, via ORPM (the best estimate to RAPM that we have), Booker comes out ahead of Russell. +1.25 to +.76. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lol. I would argue that Dlo "supporters" tend to bring in facts and data whilst the detractors tend to argue non empirical things. Where is the lack of rationale? |
Let's start under the premise that supporters and detractors are Lakers fans and they all want to see the team succeeding.
The so called detractors can have absolutely the same impressions about so called supporters.
Dave20 was a huge Clarkson supporter, but he was just one. |
He offered no facts just continuous drivel that spread into every thread about why the whole world from Dlo to Luke Walton were holding down Jc. Please don't equivocate with folks like GT who offer a basis for his support.
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SocalDevin
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: |
There is no "pressure" statistic.. It's kinda hard to argue against raw numbers. And that's why I referenced Bron vs Kobe.. You can't measure the kind of pressure Kobes aggression put on opposing teams, and how it created opportunities for his teammates. That pressure imprints on the game. I see the same dynamic with the Russ vs Booker discussion. Booker's pressure is more impactful in my opinion. |
You can. Kobe's offensive RAPM scores were always higher than his "OBPM" (the best offensive box score in my estimation) scores would estimate. That's the general sign of a player undersold by box score stats.
http://public.tableau.com/views/BPMvs_RAPM/BoxPlusMinusvs_14YearRAPM?:embed=y&:showVizHome=no&:display_count=y&:display_static_image=y&:bootstrapWhenNotified=true
Defense is another story, but that doesn't surprise anyone since Kobe didn't give a (bleep) about defense in the regular season post-Shaq.
You'll note that offensively Kobe and LeBron are actually quite close on ORAPM, though LeBron still comes out ahead (7.2 to 6.2).
And yes, via ORPM (the best estimate to RAPM that we have), Booker comes out ahead of Russell. +1.25 to +.76. |
I'm going to have to correct you.. "I can't" but you You certainly can lol, I'm a novice in all things advanced analytics. I'll have to look more into it. |
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2019
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Posts: 10812
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | tox wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
I actually don't think that many people would disagree with your statement. I don't. I mean I think Russell is the better player, but in terms of tiers, they mostly sit at the same spot right now. |
+1 |
which is the next tier of young players:
Tier 1: Towns, Giannis, healthy Embiid, Davis
Tier 2: Jokic, Wiggins, DLO, Booker, KP, Ingram, Parker, Turner
**Simmons- we'll see where he ends up
Having a guy in that group of young players with huge upside is fantastic. Maybe once people start realizing not everyone is Kobe or LeBron, they can still be fantastic players and eventually have those types of years. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | tox wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: |
I'll clarify.
I like Dlo but I think he gets to much love here. Hes on same tier as Booker impossible to say whos better or not at this point. They both have strengths and weakness. |
I actually don't think that many people would disagree with your statement. I don't. I mean I think Russell is the better player, but in terms of tiers, they mostly sit at the same spot right now. |
+1 |
which is the next tier of young players:
Tier 1: Towns, Giannis, healthy Embiid, Davis
Tier 2: Jokic, Wiggins, DLO, Booker, KP, Ingram, Parker, Turner
**Simmons- we'll see where he ends up
Having a guy in that group of young players with huge upside is fantastic. Maybe once people start realizing not everyone is Kobe or LeBron, they can still be fantastic players and eventually have those types of years. |
Parker with that second knee injury. Not sure I have him in that group anymore. Sad.
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