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activeverb
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 Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | Max Kellerman made a good argument today on First Take as to why LBJ should be the MVP. He said he could be every year but Michael Jordan could have been every year also.
Harden and Westbrook are great players but they're not on a Kobe, Michael, Magic, Bird and like, level. LeBron is.
I think the MVP should be given at regular seasons end. If Harden sends Westbrook home will that give him the edge? |
Voting for MVP and other regular season awards are finished before the playoffs started. So what happens in the playoffs doesn't affect the awards. The only award that is voted on after the regular season end is Finals MVP |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | Max Kellerman made a good argument today on First Take as to why LBJ should be the MVP. He said he could be every year but Michael Jordan could have been every year also.
Harden and Westbrook are great players but they're not on a Kobe, Michael, Magic, Bird and like, level. LeBron is.
I think the MVP should be given at regular seasons end. If Harden sends Westbrook home will that give him the edge? |
Voting for MVP and other regular season awards are finished before the playoffs started. So what happens in the playoffs doesn't affect the awards. The only award that is voted on after the regular season end is Finals MVP |
True. They know the outcome, we have to wait. LINK Hope the votes a vaulted. No way to change ones mind. I have a dim view of things already decided and kept secret.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | True. They know the outcome, we have to wait. LINK Hope the votes a vaulted. No way to change ones mind. I have a dim view of things already decided and kept secret. |
62 of the 100 votes are publicly known. Westbrook has a modest lead over Harden, but probably enough that it's in the bag. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | NBAFAN24 wrote: | | Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | NBAFAN24 wrote: | | Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | LeBron megastan awakes from its 2 year slumber to celebrate. Congrats little buddy! |
 You sound salty as hell. I feel your pain. It's not easy accepting another player being greater than your favorite player, but reality always win. |
Not salty, but happy that you found a place to celebrate! |
Thanks. I'm still celebrating and so should you. Up next, Mr. Kareem Abdul Jabbar. |
Oh you're welcome. fwiw while I've always respected LeBron's achievements, I don't celebrate him, or with his needy, nomadic fans. |
I don't see what's wrong with you being noncommittal and stand-offish regarding Bron's growth and development. After all, it was ok for his father, so what's the biggie?
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Telleris
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | NBAFAN24 wrote: | | LakersChamps04 wrote: | ^lol
no doubt that, lebron is something else..i've learned to appreciate him these past couple seasons while i hated him in his prime. i feel like those kobe haters who hated him during HIS prime and then learned to appreciate him later in his career..and they all felt regret that they didnt truly get to witness his prime...i kinda feel the same with lebron |
Yep. Kobe will always be the greatest all-around scorer ever no matter what the stats say, but I've never seen a more complete all-around player like LeBron. I don't know if it's just me, but Westbrook and Harden just don't seem to have that "IT" factor that LeBron has, Kobe had, etc.They're great players who can put up big numbers, but LeBron and Kobe has/had that "superhero" aura about them that I don't see from those guys. |
I think that Harden could get there. I read an article about him where he changed his mindset and is all bball while getting rid of peripheral things in his life that distracted him. Very Kobe-like. |
Because Lebron is gifted with top tier athleticism and basketball iq, whereas Harden and Westbrook have one of each but not the other.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | the association wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Congrats to LeBron. He turned a corner (after the loss in the first Miami season) and both his mentality and skill set have come to match his talent. I don't care who's greater than who, he's in the all time great discussion at the upper tier, and he deserves it. And I'm not even really a fan. That said, it doesn't detract a whit from what guys line Russell, bird, magic, Shaq, kobe, Jordan, etc., did in their eras, which is why as long as they are all grouped up top, who cares where someone else orders them from top to bottom? |
Agreed with the above. The players you mentioned (plus Kareem, Wilt and Tim Duncan) are all clustered in the Top 10/12 for me. The accomplishments of any of them don't diminish the accomplishments of the others.
LeBron seems like he's teetering in this awkward space where he's capable of some exceptional performances (e.g., last night), but also the inevitable march toward decline we all know is around the corner (and truth be told, it's probably already begun in earnest without us truly appreciating the degree of decline) ... I'm of the mind that each game we see like last night, the needle surges forward a bit more. I just don't think he can keep this up ... |
Inevitably, every player gets old and retires. That's simply a fact of life. You never know exactly how someone will decline or if they will get injured, but right now there isn't a reason to think Lebron can't continue at his current level for another 2-3 years.
At age 39, Karl Malone was still putting up 21-8-5, and while it's impossible to predict 7 years out it wouldn't shock me to see Lebron doing something like that.
I think it's really a question of whether he gets an injury than a matter of a natural physical decline, but that's what does in most players. |
Kobe was 34 when he tore his achillies. He was 78 games into a season where he averaged 27/6/5.
Lebron right now has played about the same amount of minutes, both regular season and playoffs as Kobe did at age 34. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | I have a dim view of things already decided and kept secret. |
For most awards, winners are decided long before they are announced -- sports awards, the Grammys, the Oscars, etc. They go through a voting process and then the winners are announced later for maximum effect and publicity.
This is show business, after all, not a matter of the public interest like an election. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I have a dim view of things already decided and kept secret. |
For most awards, winners are decided long before they are announced -- sports awards, the Grammys, the Oscars, etc. They go through a voting process and then the winners are announced later for maximum effect and publicity.
This is show business, after all, not a matter of the public interest like an election. |
Elections!! We talking bout two of the best of the best and you talkin bout elections!!! Not James Harden. Not Rusell Westbrook. You talkin bout elections!!
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | the association wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Congrats to LeBron. He turned a corner (after the loss in the first Miami season) and both his mentality and skill set have come to match his talent. I don't care who's greater than who, he's in the all time great discussion at the upper tier, and he deserves it. And I'm not even really a fan. That said, it doesn't detract a whit from what guys line Russell, bird, magic, Shaq, kobe, Jordan, etc., did in their eras, which is why as long as they are all grouped up top, who cares where someone else orders them from top to bottom? |
Agreed with the above. The players you mentioned (plus Kareem, Wilt and Tim Duncan) are all clustered in the Top 10/12 for me. The accomplishments of any of them don't diminish the accomplishments of the others.
LeBron seems like he's teetering in this awkward space where he's capable of some exceptional performances (e.g., last night), but also the inevitable march toward decline we all know is around the corner (and truth be told, it's probably already begun in earnest without us truly appreciating the degree of decline) ... I'm of the mind that each game we see like last night, the needle surges forward a bit more. I just don't think he can keep this up ... |
Inevitably, every player gets old and retires. That's simply a fact of life. You never know exactly how someone will decline or if they will get injured, but right now there isn't a reason to think Lebron can't continue at his current level for another 2-3 years.
At age 39, Karl Malone was still putting up 21-8-5, and while it's impossible to predict 7 years out it wouldn't shock me to see Lebron doing something like that.
I think it's really a question of whether he gets an injury than a matter of a natural physical decline, but that's what does in most players. |
Kobe was 34 when he tore his achillies. He was 78 games into a season where he averaged 27/6/5.
Lebron right now has played about the same amount of minutes, both regular season and playoffs as Kobe did at age 34. |
I'm not sure that minutes played is any predictor of whether a guy will get injured and how much longer his career will play out. You might be able to identify general trends, but there's just too much individual variability to guess what will happen with one specific player. |
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the association
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I recall reading a discussion a few years ago that discussed FT %age trends as an advance indicator of physical decline ... based on that general premise, LeBron's decline began two seasons ago and accelerated considerably during the 2016/2017 season. Remember, it's very possible that his postseason performances over the the past two seasons might have been delivered largely via sheer mental determination (and despite a substantial physical decline).
However, there are outliers that don't conform to this theory. And I'm as confident as ever that LeBron isn't playing beyond the age of 36 years old anyway, unless he happens to be on a defending championship team at the end of the 2020/2021 season. Even projecting that far into the future seems risky to me ... I could very easily see LeBron hanging 'em up sooner. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | I recall reading a discussion a few years ago that discussed FT %age trends as an advance indicator of physical decline ... based on that general premise . |
I'm not aware of any correlation between FT% and physical decline, but I'd be interested in seeing any evidence in support of that theory.
| the association wrote: | | Even projecting that far into the future seems risky to me ... I could very easily see LeBron hanging 'em up sooner. |
I'd never try to predict how long a player will play. Too many X factors, like injuries, records they might be chasing, and how much money is being dangled in front of them. All I can say is Lebron is only 32 and still playing at an MVP level, so right now I see no reason to anticipate his retirement any time soon. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | the association wrote: | | I recall reading a discussion a few years ago that discussed FT %age trends as an advance indicator of physical decline ... based on that general premise . |
I'm not aware of any correlation between FT% and physical decline, but I'd be interested in seeing any evidence in support of that theory. |
I remember seeing something about that, but I don't recall where. In fact, I think it was the opposite -- that FT% was an indicator that did not vary with physical decline and age. It was being contrasted with other stats that did decline with age. |
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the association
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | the association wrote: | | I recall reading a discussion a few years ago that discussed FT %age trends as an advance indicator of physical decline ... based on that general premise . |
I'm not aware of any correlation between FT% and physical decline, but I'd be interested in seeing any evidence in support of that theory. |
I remember seeing something about that, but I don't recall where. In fact, I think it was the opposite -- that FT% was an indicator that did not vary with physical decline and age. It was being contrasted with other stats that did decline with age. |
I haven't been able to track down the discussion I recalled, but I found one quickly that seems to be compatible with your memory ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3928819/ |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | the association wrote: | | I recall reading a discussion a few years ago that discussed FT %age trends as an advance indicator of physical decline ... based on that general premise . |
I'm not aware of any correlation between FT% and physical decline, but I'd be interested in seeing any evidence in support of that theory. |
I remember seeing something about that, but I don't recall where. In fact, I think it was the opposite -- that FT% was an indicator that did not vary with physical decline and age. It was being contrasted with other stats that did decline with age. |
I can certainly believe there are stats that decline with age. But that's different than saying there are stats which predict a player is about to have a sudden decline. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| NBAFAN24 wrote: |
Yep. Kobe will always be the greatest all-around scorer ever no matter what the stats say, but I've never seen a more complete all-around player like LeBron. I don't know if it's just me, but Westbrook and Harden just don't seem to have that "IT" factor that LeBron has, Kobe had, etc.They're great players who can put up big numbers, but LeBron and Kobe has/had that "superhero" aura about them that I don't see from those guys. |
Westbrook and Harden have never been the best player in the league, and certainly were never as good as Kobe was. I'd still take Durant over both of those guys. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | Where are all the haters who said his body would break down after he loses his athleticism? These same people said everything he has done in this league has been due to his freakish athleticism. No doubt he is still athletic, but you can tell the guy will adjusts his game as he gets older. |
People used to say the same thing here about Lebron. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | the association wrote: | | I recall reading a discussion a few years ago that discussed FT %age trends as an advance indicator of physical decline ... based on that general premise . |
I'm not aware of any correlation between FT% and physical decline, but I'd be interested in seeing any evidence in support of that theory. |
I remember seeing something about that, but I don't recall where. In fact, I think it was the opposite -- that FT% was an indicator that did not vary with physical decline and age. It was being contrasted with other stats that did decline with age. |
I haven't been able to track down the discussion I recalled, but I found one quickly that seems to be compatible with your memory ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3928819/ |
That's consistent with what I remember. Still, I do remember seeing something along the lines of what you're talking about. It might have been FTA, instead of FT%. |
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