And you are probably right he can work on some areas to fix his form so can many other players. But when you say he has a lot of things to do to fix his form, it makes it sound like its completely broken which IMO its not.
But I think most of his bad % is attributed to just being young.
I expect him to be around 32-33% on 3's next season with around 75% ft
His knees lock before his elbow which locks before his wrist flick on his FTs, and that's before looking at things like his hand positioning on the ball and other things that are hard to see on TV.
He wasn't a 62% FT shooter after being a 68% FT shooter at Duke because he's young, nor was he a sub-30% 3pt shooter for that reason either. He's hardly the first young guy to play in the NBA. There have been 45 seasons of players his age and younger, and his FT% ranks 40th amongst them. Of the guys his age and younger who've shot at least 50 3PAs, he ranks 25th out of 37.
How's that even possible? His elbow locks before he snaps his wrist? Even grade schoolers instinctually synchronize those, no?
That's how you know it's an unnatural shot pocket. It is natural to have those things synched.
Either in length/duration of the shot pocket or height, it's unnatural.
If you try having a really quick/concise shot pocket, you're going to try to Aim the ball instead of Shoot it - a naturally elongated motion takes care of the aim.
You should go from point A(cocked in the beginning of the shot pocket) to point B(arm extended ball begins in the air) without mentally/forcefully aiming at the hoop(point C) ---- point A to B should take care of that very naturally. But when you have an overly concise shot pocket, it doesn't - and you try to aim after the fact
Questions/teaching is great because you learn things on the fly. I knew his shot pocket was overly concise since he changed his stroke(like trying to be Klay Thompson), and now I just realized that makes you over-aim. Natural aim occurs in a long enough stroke. And I'm not advocating super long strokes here, just naturally long. Too long of a stroke can also cause over-aiming, maybe that's easier to visualize for ya'll.
Food for thought on this: Boogie and Paul George talking about how his long arms dictate his shooting stroke, and KD's shooting stroke
Ingram's stroke is too concise for his long arms. And this is actually a result of the change he made to his stroke midway through the year. He raised his shot-pocket, therefor shortening the length of the shot pocket
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:31 pm Post subject:
Roon wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
It's clearly apparent what his shortcomings are, It's not like he's the first rookie to ever have struggles shooting or with defense.
No reason not to expect him to improve in those areas, just like we expect Russell to also improve in those areas.
Yeah there's no reason for a young guy can't improve their shooting and defense. Russel, Ingram, or Randle no reason they all can't get better right?
No reason at all.. Unless you're not that high on one of those players. Then it might be a really big deal, and the odds of them improving aren't so good lol.
We have LMA to thank for getting Ingram. It's amazing how things work out for the Lakers. If we had gotten Aldridge, he'd be looking slow and tired today and we wouldn't have Ingram.
Unfortunately Ingram's lack of twitch limits what his very good handle manifests.. Athletic improvement is key for him.
That move, ^ especially the set-up move, that's top 1% for a SF his age. He also has all the little change of pace hesitations in the P/R. Just lacks the quickness right now to get an advantage with his handle.
He's very good with his timing on catch/go, and that's how he drives so much right now. He's got great feel
His ball handling improved a lot, he was keeping the ball a lot lower late in the season and he was starting to figure out how to turn corners, something he was terrible in college and starting the season. Keeping the ball high finishing at the rim was another thing he vastly improved. Jumping from one foot was another point.
His defensive awareness in transition is terrible and he has a tough time covering his man in ISO, his shot still lacks a consistent form and a fast release and he has so much to learn in terms of footwork, but he improved his balance as the season progressed.
I was never one of the guys telling Ingram was ready, I had him as a long term prospect and it hasn't changed a bit, three years is the name of the game for him IMHO.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:00 am Post subject:
SocalDevin wrote:
It's clearly apparent what his shortcomings are, It's not like he's the first rookie to ever have struggles shooting or with defense.
No reason not to expect him to improve in those areas, just like we expect Russell to also improve in those areas.
I watched all of the games this year all of them- BI looked like a different player the last month of the season. He switched over to Gianis mode with this dunking and aggressive moves to the hoop. I can not tell y'all enough about how excited I am for this kid going forward.
A summer of working on his footwork with Kobe will be amazing for him. I already saw him incorporate a Kobe-like turnaround jumper that is basically unguardable with his length in the last month of the season. I can't wait see what other moves he can introduce in October! _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
I hope not. This is the one young guy I want them to keep, even over DLO. I think BI has a chance to be special.
The problem is, as we saw with Boogie, he's also coveted by other teams, more so than DLO. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I hope not. This is the one young guy I want them to keep, even over DLO. I think BI has a chance to be special.
The problem is, as we saw with Boogie, he's also coveted by other teams, more so than DLO.
They may want him but lakers need to make clear he is the one guy that's untouchable at this point. We have seen to many glimpses to trade him away. We have all the leverage in the potential George deal. IMO, if we get top 2 pick, would think about russell for george but that's it. Otherwise, it's randle and clarkson max. But keeping Ingram is a must. He is a future superstar and will be homegrown which does have some merit as well.
I hope not. This is the one young guy I want them to keep, even over DLO. I think BI has a chance to be special.
The problem is, as we saw with Boogie, he's also coveted by other teams, more so than DLO.
They may want him but lakers need to make clear he is the one guy that's untouchable at this point. We have seen to many glimpses to trade him away. We have all the leverage in the potential George deal. IMO, if we get top 2 pick, would think about russell for george but that's it. Otherwise, it's randle and clarkson max. But keeping Ingram is a must. He is a future superstar and will be homegrown which does have some merit as well.
This is why I wish I knew the mystery answer to the whole Boogie situation.
Was the final straw that Jim/Mitch didn't want to trade Ingram for Boogie?
Or was it that they DID want to trade Ingram for Boogie?
That sort of gives you a glimpse into what Magic/Jeannie think about Ingram as an untouchable asset. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I didn't see those guys play much but Ingram was pretty terrible when judging his entire rookie season. He does have loads of potential, certainly more than those guys.
I didn't see those guys play much but Ingram was pretty terrible when judging his entire rookie season. He does have loads of potential, certainly more than those guys.
Did you watch the games? I did, I watched all of them. Ingram was a beast that last month. Kid has a great work ethic so I expect him to continue to next season where he left off in April.
That said, Skal was actually pretty damn good, that guy has a lot of upside as well. Thon Maker too.. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
I didn't see those guys play much but Ingram was pretty terrible when judging his entire rookie season. He does have loads of potential, certainly more than those guys.
Did you watch the games? I did, I watched all of them. Ingram was a beast that last month. Kid has a great work ethic so I expect him to continue to next season where he left off in April.
That said, Skal was actually pretty damn good, that guy has a lot of upside as well. Thon Maker too..
That's the point. It was the last month. He was pretty terrible the other months. In the end who cares, b/c I think Ingram will be a really good player, but for purposes of all-rookie team, it will go against him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I didn't see those guys play much but Ingram was pretty terrible when judging his entire rookie season. He does have loads of potential, certainly more than those guys.
Did you watch the games? I did, I watched all of them. Ingram was a beast that last month. Kid has a great work ethic so I expect him to continue to next season where he left off in April.
That said, Skal was actually pretty damn good, that guy has a lot of upside as well. Thon Maker too..
Yes I watched every game. I'm speaking on the season as a whole not pieces of it. For the entire season I thought Ingram wasn't very good. You could certainly say he got better towards the end.
I didn't see those guys play much but Ingram was pretty terrible when judging his entire rookie season. He does have loads of potential, certainly more than those guys.
Did you watch the games? I did, I watched all of them. Ingram was a beast that last month. Kid has a great work ethic so I expect him to continue to next season where he left off in April.
That said, Skal was actually pretty damn good, that guy has a lot of upside as well. Thon Maker too..
Yes I watched every game. I'm speaking on the season as a whole not pieces of it. For the entire season I thought Ingram wasn't very good. You could certainly say he got better towards the end.
Got it! IMO if he were 25 then yes I would evaluate him based on the whole season. But since he was barely 19 when the season started I am placing way more emphasis on that last month. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
I hope not. This is the one young guy I want them to keep, even over DLO. I think BI has a chance to be special.
The problem is, as we saw with Boogie, he's also coveted by other teams, more so than DLO.
They may want him but lakers need to make clear he is the one guy that's untouchable at this point. We have seen to many glimpses to trade him away. We have all the leverage in the potential George deal. IMO, if we get top 2 pick, would think about russell for george but that's it. Otherwise, it's randle and clarkson max. But keeping Ingram is a must. He is a future superstar and will be homegrown which does have some merit as well.
This is why I wish I knew the mystery answer to the whole Boogie situation.
Was the final straw that Jim/Mitch didn't want to trade Ingram for Boogie?
Or was it that they DID want to trade Ingram for Boogie?
That sort of gives you a glimpse into what Magic/Jeannie think about Ingram as an untouchable asset.
Yes, if the whole boogie nixed trade was because of ingram, and that's why mitch/jim got axed, we got a major problem.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144469 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
textbook wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
textbook wrote:
They better not trade him.
I hope not. This is the one young guy I want them to keep, even over DLO. I think BI has a chance to be special.
The problem is, as we saw with Boogie, he's also coveted by other teams, more so than DLO.
They may want him but lakers need to make clear he is the one guy that's untouchable at this point. We have seen to many glimpses to trade him away. We have all the leverage in the potential George deal. IMO, if we get top 2 pick, would think about russell for george but that's it. Otherwise, it's randle and clarkson max. But keeping Ingram is a must. He is a future superstar and will be homegrown which does have some merit as well.
This is why I wish I knew the mystery answer to the whole Boogie situation.
Was the final straw that Jim/Mitch didn't want to trade Ingram for Boogie?
Or was it that they DID want to trade Ingram for Boogie?
That sort of gives you a glimpse into what Magic/Jeannie think about Ingram as an untouchable asset.
Jim wanted to trade Ingram and Mitch didn't. But I don't think that Magic or Jeanie knew enough about the young players to make that the final straw, I think that happened when Jim shut Magic out of what they were trying to do. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
At least Ingram had a good month, Simmons never had a good anything. I would say that Labisserie also had a good month, but if I have the correct Hernangomez, I can see where they would rate his season over Ingram's. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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Maybe Chad should have revised more of his previous draft predictions...
