“I just spoke to Dr. Jerry Buss who owns the Lakers and he has owned the ball club for an awful long time now. And he just told me that he can’t recall any Laker, maybe with the exception of Magic Johnson, over the course of the last month playing at the level that Kobe Bryant is playing at. He says it’s just stupefying to him and astonishing that this guy has done so well. And maybe other than Magic he can’t recall another Laker, including all of the great Lakers (Worthy, Jabbar, Cooper, Nixon) playing the way Kobe Bryant is playing.”
Source:
Paul Westphal (May 20th, 2001):
“Who is to say Kobe Bryant isn't going to be better than Michael Jordan? Let's get that out on the table right now. He's a lot better than Jordan was at the same age.”
“He's the closest thing to M.J. I've ever seen. Of course, M.J. didn't have a Shaq to play with him, which actually makes what Kobe did even more impressive."
“I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now. And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it." [Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?] "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
"He's the best player in the game right now," Utah guard Mark Jackson said last week, after Kobe went for 40 points to help the Shaqless Lakers beat the Jazz. "He's playing basketball that's as good as I've seen in my career."
"I don't see how he does it," O'Neal said. "He's a fabulous player, probably the best player that ever played the game, especially with all the stuff he's been going through. And it was a fabulous night for him, a memorable night."
**John Salley: I played with both Kobe and Michael. I would have to say that Kobe Bryant is the better player. Kobe has a much better shot, handles the ball better, and just has more tricks to go along with his game. And just look at his career...he already has 3 rings and he's going for his fourth this year.
*Chris Rose: Yea because he's playing with Shaq, the most dominant big man ever, right?
**John Salley: Wrong. Playing with Shaq of course makes it easier for Kobe, but I don't think Michael would have done as well as Kobe is, playing with another superstar. If you think about it, Jordan had someone who rebounded for him (Rodman) and brought leadership to the team (Pippen). Other than Jordan, the Chicago Bulls didn't have any real good offensive players. Jordan did the scoring all by himself. Where in Kobe's case, there's Shaq, who's another superstar that wants to score points, or else he gets upset as we've seen many times before. Kobe shares the ball with Shaq, and still puts up big numbers by himself, which is what amazes me. Kobe puts up the same numbers as Jordan did, and Kobe's playing with Shaq. If Kobe was on a team without Shaq, he would score 45 points per game.
*Chris Rose: O.K. You made some good points, but you agree that Jordan is a better defender, right? I mean, he won the defensive player of the year award several times.
**John Salley: No way, I don’t agree! Back in Jordan's days, you were allowed to put your elbows on the guy you were defending. Now in Kobe's days, even if you just touch a player like that, you get called for the foul.
*Chris Rose: O.K., whatever John. Well here's my last argument, and if you don't agree with me on this one, we're going to have to test you for drugs.
**John Salley: Man, shut up. I played with Jordan and Kobe. Did you?
*Chris Rose: No, but I do know that when it's late in the game, you want Jordan taking the final shot.
**John Salley: How can you say that? You just say that because Jordan made the game- winning basket on your sorry Cleveland Cav's team back in the early 90's. Man, for the next show, we should put a clip together showing Michael Jordan's game- winning shots and Kobe Bryant game- winning shots and compare the two. Jordan might have more game- winners, but Kobe still has 10 years left in this league, and he's not even at his best right now. Another thing of course is Kobe's trial case. I don't think anyone in the history of basketball could do what Kobe is doing traveling from court to court, scoring 30+ points.
"When I think about Kobe Bryant, I get very excited, and any coach would," Tomjanovich said. "This guy is phenomenal. He's versatile. He can do so many things. What he did this year, under the circumstances, to me is a tribute, not only to his physical toughness, but his mental toughness.... He has already done legendary things on the court. If he was finished today, people would still be talking about some of the things that that guy has done. I truly believe he has a chance to become the greatest player to ever play the game."
“Well, when we talk about Kobe Bryant, I never thought I would say it, playing against Michael Jordan for so long: But Kobe Bryant, at the end of the day, will go down as the greatest basketball player that has ever lived. 81 points, 62 at the end of the 3rd quarter, outscoring the Dallas Mavericks. Kobe Bryant will go down as the greatest basketball player that has ever lived.”
Source:
Mike Dunleavy (April 17th, 2006):
"From a talent standpoint, he may be better than Jordan was at this stage of his career."
“His offensive game is so good, so fundamentally sound in every aspect, that it may be time to debate whether or not he's the most complete offensive player in the history of the NBA. I'm not talking about the best player – there are plenty of players who rank well ahead of Bryant in that category. I'm simply wondering if there has ever been a player with a more complete skill set with footwork, ball handling, perimeter shooting and leaping ability.”
“He rates right there, probably, with Jordan. I mean, Jordan will always, to me, be the best of the best of the best. But you gotta’ put Kobe there. And that’s where Dwyane and LeBron and Carmelo and all these other guys one day would like to be considered in that group. But I don’t think anybody is ever going to be considered better than the guy that hung from the air. Never.”
Source:
Bill Simmons (June, 2008):
“I hate comparing anyone to Jordan, but what Kobe has shown over the past four months has been Jordanesque - not just his ability to raise his game in big moments (which he always had), but the way he picks his spots, keeps teammates involved and then arbitrarily takes over games and puts them away. If being an NBA superstar was like playing Grand Theft Auto, then that would be the final mission, right? The way Kobe single-handedly assassinated the Spurs in Games 1 and 5 was something we've only seen from a handful of players in NBA history. You can't say enough about it. He has become the player we always wanted him to be."
[Does Kobe have better basketball skills than MJ?]
“He does. I think that he has overall. Kobe’s outside shooting is perhaps better than Michael’s. The thing about Michael is that Michael would go on a scoring tear, he would go on like a retribution night where, ‘I gotta go after their leading scorer tonight because him and I are matched up and I need to take him down a notch to hurt this team’ type of thing . He wouldn’t do the kind of 50-point games sequence that Kobe did last year where he just obliterated the record books and just went out and had a hot tear where he just tore up the league. It was bizarre.”
Source:
Tex Winter (September 15th, 2008):
A few years back, the Lakers coaching staff concluded Bryant and Jordan were much alike, almost eerie, in fact, when it came to the alpha male qualities of their competitive natures. Kobe and Michael were ruthless when it came to winning, everyone agreed. And their skills were similar. Except Michael's hands were larger. The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan had played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was better prepared to play within a team concept.
In a statement that may surprise a lot of people, Winter told Lazenby that he doubted that Jordan would have been a good fit playing alongside Shaquille O'Neal. It will probably surprise Bryant's critics even more to learn that Winter said that his critical examination of game tape shows that Bryant's shot selection is quite good: "Actually, for the most part, he's not forcing up a lot of bad shots. When he gets hot, he does take shots that would be questionable for other players. But a lot of the shots he's taken go in." Winter concluded, "I tend to think how very much they're alike. They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."
Observers like to point out that Jordan played on a Chicago Bulls team with no great center, but Winter always countered that Jordan was a great post-up player and in essence was the premier post weapon of his time.
Bryant himself came into the NBA with amazingly good post skills, but there was never room for him to play in the post with Shaquille O'Neal occupying the lane during their years together with the Lakers.
In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said, except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post play - and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of the lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."
John Wooden [via Bob Einstein] (November 17th, 2009):
“I had the honor of having breakfast with John Wooden about 6 months ago. And I spent 2 hours with him. And I said, ‘Who is the greatest player you’ve ever seen?’ And he said, ‘Kobe Bryant.’ Which shocked me. Over Jordan. He said he’s never seen anybody work that hard on offense and defense and the complete game.”
Source:
Derek Fisher (January 2nd, 2010):
Fisher said he believes Bryant could average 50 points under the right circumstances, with a coach who ran the kind of offensive schemes geared exclusively toward getting the league's leading scorer more than his 30.6-point average.
"If he was in a situation where the coach said, `All right, here you go, do you. Every time we come down, we're going to run a screen-and-roll or an isolation,"' Fisher said. "Come on now, the dude might average 50. OK, maybe 46."
"He's the best closer in the history of the game if you ask me," Gentry said. "Yeah, that is including Michael Jordan. I just think what he's done this year, to have six game-winning shots that come on the last possession of the game, I don't know if anybody has ever done that.”
“He will never be greater than Jordan. So drop that thought. Hell, even that 10-game stretch we just witnessed wouldn't have cracked Jordan's top-10 playoff hot streaks. But still … he can beat Jordan on years. Let's say Kobe enjoys two more top-5 MVP seasons, then settles into a "Duncan 2009/2010" type phase for the next two, then he's washed up. The sheer volume of numbers will add up: rings, All-NBAs, All-Star appearances, points scored, games played -- it will be like nothing we've ever seen. At the very least, it will be a debate. And I will get angry and tell you to shut up, and that we need to stop comparing people to Jordan, but still, it's a debate. And there's going to come a point when someone can ask the question, "If you were starting a team and could have either guy for his entire career, would you rather take MJ from 1984 to 2003 (with the five missed years of games thrown in) or Kobe from 1997 to 2016 (with 0 missed years of games thrown in)?"
“To me Kobe is there with Michael. And if you saw that shot, the one he sank and went by and patted Alvin Gentry. I’m saying, “How did he do that? It’s not possible.” It was impossible. But he did it with somebody sort of hanging on him. And I do mean hanging. He has the capacity through his will and determination, which of course is accompanied by his intense conditioning and his incredible skill, to do what has to be done as part of and for the team.”
Source:
Horace Grant (November 22nd, 2010):
[Where does Kobe rank?]
“Wow! From the all-time great list, he’s somewhere in the top 5. I mean, Michael – from my era – was the best…and still is the best. But Kobe is right there. And I say that sincerely because his competitive spirit can only be taught by Michael Jordan’s competitive spirit.”
“If [Kobe] wins another championship they are going to have the same number aren’t they?…MVP’s depend on a bunch of media guys…[Kobe and Jordan belong in the same conversation]”
Michael Jordan [via Roland Lazenby] (January 17th, 2012):
Kobe's ultimate competition is MJ. That's why MJ watches him. MJ made people think what he was doing wasn't human. Ditto the Kobester.
I never said Kobe was better than MJ. MJ just told me Kobe's the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison.
Michael Jordan [via Roland Lazenby] (January 31st, 2012):
"Kobe had done the work. He [Jordan] was very aware and taking in great interest in Kobe Bryant's great work ethic. Michael Jordan's work ethic also is legendary. He said Kobe had done that work to deserve the comparison. He says Kobe's the only one to have done the work."
When asked after Saturday's 98-87 win in Atlanta whether Bryant brings extra electricity to the building, forward Andre Iguodala didn't hesitate.
"I think so," Iguodala said. "He's the best player in the game. Second-best player of all time, in my opinion."
No. 1?
"M.J., of course," Iguodala said, referring to Michael Jordan.
“Ever since Kobe was a rookie, the question of whether he would become ‘the next Michael Jordan’ had been the subject of endless speculation. Now that Kobe’s game had matured, this no longer seemed like a frivolous question. Even Jordan has said that Kobe is the only player who can be compared to him, and I have to agree. Both men have an extraordinary competitive drive and are virtually impervious to pain. Michael and Kobe have both played some of their best games under crippling conditions -- from food poisoning to broken bones -- that would sideline lesser mortals for weeks. Their incredible resilience has made the impossible possible, allowing each of them to make game-turning shots with packs of defenders hanging all over them.”
“I think Kobe Bryant is the best basketball player” [Better than LeBron?] “Yeah. [Better than Jordan?] I won’t say he’s better than Michael Jordan but he’s definitely the second best player. For me, personally, I think he’s the second best player to ever play basketball. In the NBA. Period.
Source:
Phil Jackson (August 24th, 2013):
[on Kobe & MJ]
“They’re just a standard that’s above in all cases. When I came to the Chicago Bulls Jerry Krause the General Manager and I talked a lot about our strategy towards winning. And he was always quick to tell me, ‘There’s never been a team driven by a 2-guard that’s won a championship in the NBA. You look at all the teams that won they’ve had Cousy & Russell, and they’ve had Oscar Robertson & Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and you’ve got Walt Frazier & Willis Reed, and you had Wilt Chamberlain & Jerry West. But there’s never been a 2-guard that’s been able to been the dominant force on the team that’s won.’ The reality is that I was able to have 11 championships working with 2-guards in each case. Now, that’s taking away a little bit of something from Shaquille O’Neal who’s a pretty darn good center. But Kobe was still a dominant force on that team and just coming into his own. But it says something about the dynamism of these two guards. In fact Michael compares Kobe as the only one that he can really say met his standards as a player and a guy that worked hard at his game. And that’s very true.”
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Kevin Durant (March 14th, 2014):
“Of course. He’s the greatest of all time. His skill is second to none. Him and [Michael Jordan] are neck and neck as far as skill. You can put in athleticism and be the best passer and strongest and quickest. But it’s about skill. I think that’s how his game is played. That’s why Kobe is the top two best ever in just having skill, footwork, shooting the three, shooting the pull up, posting up, dunking on guys and ball handling. It’s flat out skill. Him and Jordan are 1 and 1A. They’re neck and neck as far as the skills are concerned.”
“Michael Jordan had more “Help” winning his rings than Kobe. Kobe Had Shaq. MJ had Pippen, Dennis, Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, John Paxson, B. J. Armstrong. Kobe is really the greatest ever. MJ never won without Pippen. Kobe won 2 rings without another great on his team. Kobe is The Goat. People always telling me Kobe Bryant greatest is Tricky. But MJ supporting cast was better than Kobe’s. Hmm. It’s only one player compared to MJ, and that’s Kobe. Now Kobe change the mindset of a lot of players today. MJ & Tim Duncan both had better supporting cast than Kobe. Ron Harper is better PG, than any PG Kobe ever had. Scottie Pippen…. We don’t even have to say. Dennis Rodman… Come on now! Not even close. Y’all caught up in the moment look at the facts… This not about who’s better between MJ & Kobe. I just feel MJ supporting case was better. The debate wasn’t about who’s the better player. It was about who had the better Supporting Cast. Winning Rings.”
“It’s a big moment in basketball. I’m a basketball fan, we all are in here. What he just accomplished was so amazing. To score that many buckets in his career and pass Michael, who most of us in our era we all think he’s the greatest player of all time, and right behind him is Kobe. For him passing Mike tonight, honored to be a part of that. Honored to be a part of this team and be able to witness greatness.”
“Michael is 1 and Kobe is 1A. Michael, his will to win is second to none. Being competitive and being that ultimate leader, willing us to win all those championships. And Kobe is such a close second. They’re competitiveness. The ultimate competitors who just hate to lose. Only difference I would say is Michael spent three years in college, Kobe came out of high school. And Michael has six championships, Kobe has five. But all the other stuff they’re right there with each other.”
To me, he’s probably the greatest player I’ve faced. And I’ve faced some great players with Tim Duncan and Shaq and all these guys. But he was something else, just scoring-wise, the shot-making ability was incredible. I was always a big fan.”
“My favorite Kobe story was when we were going back and forth against Indiana and I had fouled out. So I’m thinking damn, here we go again. I [messed] up. Remember I was killing Rik Smits and I fouled out and they made that run? Everybody was worried, including [then-Lakers coach) Phil [Jackson]. And Kobe came up to me and said, ‘Don’t worry. I got it.’
“That’s when he put on that show. That’s when I got behind the podium after the game and said, ‘Kobe is the best player in the world!’
“I was nervous and he was like, ‘Big Fella, I’ll be here. You ain’t got to worry about [anything].’ That’s when I knew he was ‘real- real.’ I always knew he was real.
“But you know how [Michael] Jordan is real-real in the clutch? Magic Johnson is real-real in the clutch. That’s when I put Kobe in that category. He saved my ass.
“When people ask me about Kobe and MJ, I say I’m from the younger era and I feel you always have to give it up to the ones before you. I’ve got to go with MJ. Just like you always ask me — me or Wilt (Chamberlain)? Wilt. Me or Bill [Russell]? Gotta say Bill. Even with Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar]. I’m going to say Kareem. If it wasn’t for them, it would be no me. But I don’t mind. And Kobe is in the same breath as MJ.”
“I think he's in that category of Jordan, when you talk about his work ethic, you talk about a champion, an ambassador of the game and understanding how to play it at the highest level," Kidd said. "Not once a week, but every night.”
“He’s the best player I’ve ever played against. I played against Michael my rookie year. And going up against MJ my rookie year was quite frightening. And I also played him when he was with Washington. But Kobe at that time was in his prime, MJ was kind of on the back-door of his career. But playing against Kobe in his prime, I’m in my prime, there’s no doubt that he’s the best player that I’ve faced.”
“Great question. I mean, I played with a lot of great teammates. I don’t know. Probably Magic, Michael Jordan is one of my heros, and Shaq is in there and probably Tim Duncan, and Kobe. I mean, there’s a lot of great players.”
“You’ve never seen anyone with the footwork [Kobe] has, the athleticism, the shooting ability,” Kevin Durant tells me. “Being able to shoot the three off the dribble, off the catch and shoot, off the post. You’ve never seen that many skills in one person, outside of Michael Jordan. Of course, he doesn’t have six finals MVPs, or six titles, but skill for skill he’s unmatched.”
“If you gave any one of us guys that can score at a high level [such] one-on-one coverage, it’s to our advantage every time,” Durant says to me. “We don’t talk about that [in comparing Kobe and Jordan]. We only talk about hand checking and physicality. So imagine if the best scorers in our game today—Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, guys like that—played all one-on-one, all the time. Imagine the points they would score. Imagine the averages we would see. Once he was in his prime they started to breed the 6-8 super-athletic shooting guard, and he was out there holding his own against everybody,” Durant says. ”
“I never held true to that argument,” says former All-Star, Warriors coach and current ESPN on ABC analyst Mark Jackson. “And the fact of the matter is that there was Dr. J before Jordan. Jordan will tell you that. We don’t say there was no way Jordan could be better than Dr. J. because he emulated him. It makes no sense. At the end of the day, Kobe has put himself in the discussion because of his greatness, how hard he’s worked. You have to be that good. Larry Holmes isn’t Ali, not because he didn’t work his tail off. He’s just not Ali because he wasn’t as great as him. Let’s give Kobe his credit.
“With guys like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, the rules don’t matter,” says Mark Jackson. “So I wouldn’t dumb down their greatness and give any credit to rules.”
“Do you know the mindset that it takes to allow that to wear on you physically and mentally and still go out and do your job?” Jackson asks. In response to Kobe’s “sanctuary” argument, Jackson says, “It’s fine to say that’s where you express yourself. And there are guys that would feel the same way, but nobody would’ve done it like he did. I mean, he went out and still performed at an all-time great level in the process of going through it. And I would bet my last dollar that only two guys in the history of the game could’ve done it, and that’s Michael and Kobe. And one had the platform to do it, so we know he did it.”
“Probably the most memorable is, I think it was our first championship, going against Indiana. And the refs were giving me a hard time and I fouled out and if Indiana won the game they could tie it. And right before I fouled out Kobe looked at me, he didn’t have a worry in the world. He said, ‘I got you, big fella. I’m gonna’ take over.’ I think after that game I think that’s when I said ‘he’s the best player ever’.”
Source:
Steve Smith (April 13th, 2016):
“Nothing wrong with trying to be like Michael Jordan. Different eras, but close eras. I got a chance to guard both of them. I will say, for me, he’s the most athletic fundamentally sound player I ever played against. Then he was a mad scientist that could break down his game, your game, but he did it with a machete, because he’s trying to basically take your heart out. The way he approached each play was different than most superstars. In my opinion Michael kind of knew that he was going to will himself to a win. Kobe felt like ‘I had to win every play’. Both the same type of approach to this game with passion. But I think he was the most fundamentally athletic player I ever played against.”
Iverson recently sat down with rapper Jadakiss for a wide-ranging interview that touched on a number of topics, including his top five players of all-time -- though Iverson was hard-pressed to settle on a fifth.
"Mike [Jordan], Shaq [O'Neal], Kobe [Bryant], LeBron [James]. [The fifth one] could be a lot of dudes," he said.
“You don’t know how good you got something until it’s gone. When I left L.A. I got DWade, similar type of player. But when I went on after that I was like, ‘You know what? I had the greatest player ever.’ We could’ve won 6, 7 championships together. You live and you learn.”
[Best player since Jordan?]
“I’d probably have to go with the Kobester. ‘Cause his attitude was Jordan-like. He was able to take over games, especially in the 4th quarter. For example: when I tested Kobe out for his last game I said, ‘Kobe, I need you to hit 50.’ He said, “Nah, I’m not gonna’ do it.” But when he saw me there and he started going he said, ‘You know what? You want me to get 50, Big Dawg? I’ll do it for you.’ And he’s always had that ability. It’ll be times in the games, especially in the playoffs, where I’m not really going or I’m tired, and I’d be like, ‘Kobe, I need you to take over.’ And he would take over every time. 50 out of 50 times. It was never a time where I asked Kobe to take over the game and he didn’t perform. So, to answer your question I gotta’ go with the Kobester.”
Source:
Dwyane Wade (January 4th, 2017):
"For me, 1-2, however you want to put 'em, is him and Kobe," Wade said, via 16 Wins A Ring's Spencer Davies. "Obviously I've had to guard Kobe more, so I've been in that battle a little more with Kobe. But LeBron, we've never seen a player like him. We've seen Magic, they got a similar style, but what he does in a game, how he affects games, I haven't seen that. I haven't went against it. But him and Kobe for sure are the hardest and toughest guys that I've ever had to play against."
"I'd put MJ at the 1, Kobe at the 2, Ray Allen at the 3, gotta space it out, got to have a spot up 4, so I'm probably going to go with KG, he's going to rim-run, do the dirty work. I'd put Shaq at the 5."
“You couldn’t have had a better player for that time than Kobe Bryant. He soaked up every bit of that and used that to what he is now. Which is one of the greatest, if not the greatest player of all time.”
Batguano, I don't know if you've convinced me of anything re: Kobe, but (bleep) if you haven't just sold me on your commitment to this suicide mission of yours. Good grief ... please tell me you at least keep these quotes compiled in a Word document somewhere, FFS ... !
Anyway, mercy ... you win ... I lack the energy to compete with your cut & paste skills. I'd say meticulously curating every morsel of confirmation bias you can find on the subject constitutes grounds for a 5150 hold, but to each his own. That's all I got ... no fusillade of links from me.
Lose an argument? The only thing that post proves is the level of dedication on Batguanos part is impressive.
Does anyone think there will be a day when we will all accept that the definition of "best" anything is entirely subjective since different people value different things differently?
There's no single, objectivrly best food. Best band. Best artist. Best NBA player. It would be better to rejoice in the idea that as fans, we all place Kobe among the greats, some higher than others and some lower. It's that that speaks to Kobe's greatness.
“I just spoke to Dr. Jerry Buss who owns the Lakers and he has owned the ball club for an awful long time now. And he just told me that he can’t recall any Laker, maybe with the exception of Magic Johnson, over the course of the last month playing at the level that Kobe Bryant is playing at. He says it’s just stupefying to him and astonishing that this guy has done so well. And maybe other than Magic he can’t recall another Laker, including all of the great Lakers (Worthy, Jabbar, Cooper, Nixon) playing the way Kobe Bryant is playing.”
Source:
Paul Westphal (May 20th, 2001):
“Who is to say Kobe Bryant isn't going to be better than Michael Jordan? Let's get that out on the table right now. He's a lot better than Jordan was at the same age.”
“He's the closest thing to M.J. I've ever seen. Of course, M.J. didn't have a Shaq to play with him, which actually makes what Kobe did even more impressive."
“I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now. And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it." [Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?] "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
"He's the best player in the game right now," Utah guard Mark Jackson said last week, after Kobe went for 40 points to help the Shaqless Lakers beat the Jazz. "He's playing basketball that's as good as I've seen in my career."
"I don't see how he does it," O'Neal said. "He's a fabulous player, probably the best player that ever played the game, especially with all the stuff he's been going through. And it was a fabulous night for him, a memorable night."
**John Salley: I played with both Kobe and Michael. I would have to say that Kobe Bryant is the better player. Kobe has a much better shot, handles the ball better, and just has more tricks to go along with his game. And just look at his career...he already has 3 rings and he's going for his fourth this year.
*Chris Rose: Yea because he's playing with Shaq, the most dominant big man ever, right?
**John Salley: Wrong. Playing with Shaq of course makes it easier for Kobe, but I don't think Michael would have done as well as Kobe is, playing with another superstar. If you think about it, Jordan had someone who rebounded for him (Rodman) and brought leadership to the team (Pippen). Other than Jordan, the Chicago Bulls didn't have any real good offensive players. Jordan did the scoring all by himself. Where in Kobe's case, there's Shaq, who's another superstar that wants to score points, or else he gets upset as we've seen many times before. Kobe shares the ball with Shaq, and still puts up big numbers by himself, which is what amazes me. Kobe puts up the same numbers as Jordan did, and Kobe's playing with Shaq. If Kobe was on a team without Shaq, he would score 45 points per game.
*Chris Rose: O.K. You made some good points, but you agree that Jordan is a better defender, right? I mean, he won the defensive player of the year award several times.
**John Salley: No way, I don’t agree! Back in Jordan's days, you were allowed to put your elbows on the guy you were defending. Now in Kobe's days, even if you just touch a player like that, you get called for the foul.
*Chris Rose: O.K., whatever John. Well here's my last argument, and if you don't agree with me on this one, we're going to have to test you for drugs.
**John Salley: Man, shut up. I played with Jordan and Kobe. Did you?
*Chris Rose: No, but I do know that when it's late in the game, you want Jordan taking the final shot.
**John Salley: How can you say that? You just say that because Jordan made the game- winning basket on your sorry Cleveland Cav's team back in the early 90's. Man, for the next show, we should put a clip together showing Michael Jordan's game- winning shots and Kobe Bryant game- winning shots and compare the two. Jordan might have more game- winners, but Kobe still has 10 years left in this league, and he's not even at his best right now. Another thing of course is Kobe's trial case. I don't think anyone in the history of basketball could do what Kobe is doing traveling from court to court, scoring 30+ points.
"When I think about Kobe Bryant, I get very excited, and any coach would," Tomjanovich said. "This guy is phenomenal. He's versatile. He can do so many things. What he did this year, under the circumstances, to me is a tribute, not only to his physical toughness, but his mental toughness.... He has already done legendary things on the court. If he was finished today, people would still be talking about some of the things that that guy has done. I truly believe he has a chance to become the greatest player to ever play the game."
“Well, when we talk about Kobe Bryant, I never thought I would say it, playing against Michael Jordan for so long: But Kobe Bryant, at the end of the day, will go down as the greatest basketball player that has ever lived. 81 points, 62 at the end of the 3rd quarter, outscoring the Dallas Mavericks. Kobe Bryant will go down as the greatest basketball player that has ever lived.”
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Mike Dunleavy (April 17th, 2006):
"From a talent standpoint, he may be better than Jordan was at this stage of his career."
“His offensive game is so good, so fundamentally sound in every aspect, that it may be time to debate whether or not he's the most complete offensive player in the history of the NBA. I'm not talking about the best player – there are plenty of players who rank well ahead of Bryant in that category. I'm simply wondering if there has ever been a player with a more complete skill set with footwork, ball handling, perimeter shooting and leaping ability.”
“He rates right there, probably, with Jordan. I mean, Jordan will always, to me, be the best of the best of the best. But you gotta’ put Kobe there. And that’s where Dwyane and LeBron and Carmelo and all these other guys one day would like to be considered in that group. But I don’t think anybody is ever going to be considered better than the guy that hung from the air. Never.”
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Bill Simmons (June, 2008):
“I hate comparing anyone to Jordan, but what Kobe has shown over the past four months has been Jordanesque - not just his ability to raise his game in big moments (which he always had), but the way he picks his spots, keeps teammates involved and then arbitrarily takes over games and puts them away. If being an NBA superstar was like playing Grand Theft Auto, then that would be the final mission, right? The way Kobe single-handedly assassinated the Spurs in Games 1 and 5 was something we've only seen from a handful of players in NBA history. You can't say enough about it. He has become the player we always wanted him to be."
[Does Kobe have better basketball skills than MJ?]
“He does. I think that he has overall. Kobe’s outside shooting is perhaps better than Michael’s. The thing about Michael is that Michael would go on a scoring tear, he would go on like a retribution night where, ‘I gotta go after their leading scorer tonight because him and I are matched up and I need to take him down a notch to hurt this team’ type of thing . He wouldn’t do the kind of 50-point games sequence that Kobe did last year where he just obliterated the record books and just went out and had a hot tear where he just tore up the league. It was bizarre.”
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Tex Winter (September 15th, 2008):
A few years back, the Lakers coaching staff concluded Bryant and Jordan were much alike, almost eerie, in fact, when it came to the alpha male qualities of their competitive natures. Kobe and Michael were ruthless when it came to winning, everyone agreed. And their skills were similar. Except Michael's hands were larger. The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan had played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was better prepared to play within a team concept.
In a statement that may surprise a lot of people, Winter told Lazenby that he doubted that Jordan would have been a good fit playing alongside Shaquille O'Neal. It will probably surprise Bryant's critics even more to learn that Winter said that his critical examination of game tape shows that Bryant's shot selection is quite good: "Actually, for the most part, he's not forcing up a lot of bad shots. When he gets hot, he does take shots that would be questionable for other players. But a lot of the shots he's taken go in." Winter concluded, "I tend to think how very much they're alike. They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."
Observers like to point out that Jordan played on a Chicago Bulls team with no great center, but Winter always countered that Jordan was a great post-up player and in essence was the premier post weapon of his time.
Bryant himself came into the NBA with amazingly good post skills, but there was never room for him to play in the post with Shaquille O'Neal occupying the lane during their years together with the Lakers.
In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said, except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post play - and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of the lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."
John Wooden [via Bob Einstein] (November 17th, 2009):
“I had the honor of having breakfast with John Wooden about 6 months ago. And I spent 2 hours with him. And I said, ‘Who is the greatest player you’ve ever seen?’ And he said, ‘Kobe Bryant.’ Which shocked me. Over Jordan. He said he’s never seen anybody work that hard on offense and defense and the complete game.”
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Derek Fisher (January 2nd, 2010):
Fisher said he believes Bryant could average 50 points under the right circumstances, with a coach who ran the kind of offensive schemes geared exclusively toward getting the league's leading scorer more than his 30.6-point average.
"If he was in a situation where the coach said, `All right, here you go, do you. Every time we come down, we're going to run a screen-and-roll or an isolation,"' Fisher said. "Come on now, the dude might average 50. OK, maybe 46."
"He's the best closer in the history of the game if you ask me," Gentry said. "Yeah, that is including Michael Jordan. I just think what he's done this year, to have six game-winning shots that come on the last possession of the game, I don't know if anybody has ever done that.”
“He will never be greater than Jordan. So drop that thought. Hell, even that 10-game stretch we just witnessed wouldn't have cracked Jordan's top-10 playoff hot streaks. But still … he can beat Jordan on years. Let's say Kobe enjoys two more top-5 MVP seasons, then settles into a "Duncan 2009/2010" type phase for the next two, then he's washed up. The sheer volume of numbers will add up: rings, All-NBAs, All-Star appearances, points scored, games played -- it will be like nothing we've ever seen. At the very least, it will be a debate. And I will get angry and tell you to shut up, and that we need to stop comparing people to Jordan, but still, it's a debate. And there's going to come a point when someone can ask the question, "If you were starting a team and could have either guy for his entire career, would you rather take MJ from 1984 to 2003 (with the five missed years of games thrown in) or Kobe from 1997 to 2016 (with 0 missed years of games thrown in)?"
“To me Kobe is there with Michael. And if you saw that shot, the one he sank and went by and patted Alvin Gentry. I’m saying, “How did he do that? It’s not possible.” It was impossible. But he did it with somebody sort of hanging on him. And I do mean hanging. He has the capacity through his will and determination, which of course is accompanied by his intense conditioning and his incredible skill, to do what has to be done as part of and for the team.”
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Horace Grant (November 22nd, 2010):
[Where does Kobe rank?]
“Wow! From the all-time great list, he’s somewhere in the top 5. I mean, Michael – from my era – was the best…and still is the best. But Kobe is right there. And I say that sincerely because his competitive spirit can only be taught by Michael Jordan’s competitive spirit.”
“If [Kobe] wins another championship they are going to have the same number aren’t they?…MVP’s depend on a bunch of media guys…[Kobe and Jordan belong in the same conversation]”
Michael Jordan [via Roland Lazenby] (January 17th, 2012):
Kobe's ultimate competition is MJ. That's why MJ watches him. MJ made people think what he was doing wasn't human. Ditto the Kobester.
I never said Kobe was better than MJ. MJ just told me Kobe's the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison.
Michael Jordan [via Roland Lazenby] (January 31st, 2012):
"Kobe had done the work. He [Jordan] was very aware and taking in great interest in Kobe Bryant's great work ethic. Michael Jordan's work ethic also is legendary. He said Kobe had done that work to deserve the comparison. He says Kobe's the only one to have done the work."
When asked after Saturday's 98-87 win in Atlanta whether Bryant brings extra electricity to the building, forward Andre Iguodala didn't hesitate.
"I think so," Iguodala said. "He's the best player in the game. Second-best player of all time, in my opinion."
No. 1?
"M.J., of course," Iguodala said, referring to Michael Jordan.
“Ever since Kobe was a rookie, the question of whether he would become ‘the next Michael Jordan’ had been the subject of endless speculation. Now that Kobe’s game had matured, this no longer seemed like a frivolous question. Even Jordan has said that Kobe is the only player who can be compared to him, and I have to agree. Both men have an extraordinary competitive drive and are virtually impervious to pain. Michael and Kobe have both played some of their best games under crippling conditions -- from food poisoning to broken bones -- that would sideline lesser mortals for weeks. Their incredible resilience has made the impossible possible, allowing each of them to make game-turning shots with packs of defenders hanging all over them.”
“I think Kobe Bryant is the best basketball player” [Better than LeBron?] “Yeah. [Better than Jordan?] I won’t say he’s better than Michael Jordan but he’s definitely the second best player. For me, personally, I think he’s the second best player to ever play basketball. In the NBA. Period.
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Phil Jackson (August 24th, 2013):
[on Kobe & MJ]
“They’re just a standard that’s above in all cases. When I came to the Chicago Bulls Jerry Krause the General Manager and I talked a lot about our strategy towards winning. And he was always quick to tell me, ‘There’s never been a team driven by a 2-guard that’s won a championship in the NBA. You look at all the teams that won they’ve had Cousy & Russell, and they’ve had Oscar Robertson & Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and you’ve got Walt Frazier & Willis Reed, and you had Wilt Chamberlain & Jerry West. But there’s never been a 2-guard that’s been able to been the dominant force on the team that’s won.’ The reality is that I was able to have 11 championships working with 2-guards in each case. Now, that’s taking away a little bit of something from Shaquille O’Neal who’s a pretty darn good center. But Kobe was still a dominant force on that team and just coming into his own. But it says something about the dynamism of these two guards. In fact Michael compares Kobe as the only one that he can really say met his standards as a player and a guy that worked hard at his game. And that’s very true.”
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Kevin Durant (March 14th, 2014):
“Of course. He’s the greatest of all time. His skill is second to none. Him and [Michael Jordan] are neck and neck as far as skill. You can put in athleticism and be the best passer and strongest and quickest. But it’s about skill. I think that’s how his game is played. That’s why Kobe is the top two best ever in just having skill, footwork, shooting the three, shooting the pull up, posting up, dunking on guys and ball handling. It’s flat out skill. Him and Jordan are 1 and 1A. They’re neck and neck as far as the skills are concerned.”
“Michael Jordan had more “Help” winning his rings than Kobe. Kobe Had Shaq. MJ had Pippen, Dennis, Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, John Paxson, B. J. Armstrong. Kobe is really the greatest ever. MJ never won without Pippen. Kobe won 2 rings without another great on his team. Kobe is The Goat. People always telling me Kobe Bryant greatest is Tricky. But MJ supporting cast was better than Kobe’s. Hmm. It’s only one player compared to MJ, and that’s Kobe. Now Kobe change the mindset of a lot of players today. MJ & Tim Duncan both had better supporting cast than Kobe. Ron Harper is better PG, than any PG Kobe ever had. Scottie Pippen…. We don’t even have to say. Dennis Rodman… Come on now! Not even close. Y’all caught up in the moment look at the facts… This not about who’s better between MJ & Kobe. I just feel MJ supporting case was better. The debate wasn’t about who’s the better player. It was about who had the better Supporting Cast. Winning Rings.”
“It’s a big moment in basketball. I’m a basketball fan, we all are in here. What he just accomplished was so amazing. To score that many buckets in his career and pass Michael, who most of us in our era we all think he’s the greatest player of all time, and right behind him is Kobe. For him passing Mike tonight, honored to be a part of that. Honored to be a part of this team and be able to witness greatness.”
“Michael is 1 and Kobe is 1A. Michael, his will to win is second to none. Being competitive and being that ultimate leader, willing us to win all those championships. And Kobe is such a close second. They’re competitiveness. The ultimate competitors who just hate to lose. Only difference I would say is Michael spent three years in college, Kobe came out of high school. And Michael has six championships, Kobe has five. But all the other stuff they’re right there with each other.”
To me, he’s probably the greatest player I’ve faced. And I’ve faced some great players with Tim Duncan and Shaq and all these guys. But he was something else, just scoring-wise, the shot-making ability was incredible. I was always a big fan.”
“My favorite Kobe story was when we were going back and forth against Indiana and I had fouled out. So I’m thinking damn, here we go again. I [messed] up. Remember I was killing Rik Smits and I fouled out and they made that run? Everybody was worried, including [then-Lakers coach) Phil [Jackson]. And Kobe came up to me and said, ‘Don’t worry. I got it.’
“That’s when he put on that show. That’s when I got behind the podium after the game and said, ‘Kobe is the best player in the world!’
“I was nervous and he was like, ‘Big Fella, I’ll be here. You ain’t got to worry about [anything].’ That’s when I knew he was ‘real- real.’ I always knew he was real.
“But you know how [Michael] Jordan is real-real in the clutch? Magic Johnson is real-real in the clutch. That’s when I put Kobe in that category. He saved my ass.
“When people ask me about Kobe and MJ, I say I’m from the younger era and I feel you always have to give it up to the ones before you. I’ve got to go with MJ. Just like you always ask me — me or Wilt (Chamberlain)? Wilt. Me or Bill [Russell]? Gotta say Bill. Even with Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar]. I’m going to say Kareem. If it wasn’t for them, it would be no me. But I don’t mind. And Kobe is in the same breath as MJ.”
“I think he's in that category of Jordan, when you talk about his work ethic, you talk about a champion, an ambassador of the game and understanding how to play it at the highest level," Kidd said. "Not once a week, but every night.”
“He’s the best player I’ve ever played against. I played against Michael my rookie year. And going up against MJ my rookie year was quite frightening. And I also played him when he was with Washington. But Kobe at that time was in his prime, MJ was kind of on the back-door of his career. But playing against Kobe in his prime, I’m in my prime, there’s no doubt that he’s the best player that I’ve faced.”
“Great question. I mean, I played with a lot of great teammates. I don’t know. Probably Magic, Michael Jordan is one of my heros, and Shaq is in there and probably Tim Duncan, and Kobe. I mean, there’s a lot of great players.”
“You’ve never seen anyone with the footwork [Kobe] has, the athleticism, the shooting ability,” Kevin Durant tells me. “Being able to shoot the three off the dribble, off the catch and shoot, off the post. You’ve never seen that many skills in one person, outside of Michael Jordan. Of course, he doesn’t have six finals MVPs, or six titles, but skill for skill he’s unmatched.”
“If you gave any one of us guys that can score at a high level [such] one-on-one coverage, it’s to our advantage every time,” Durant says to me. “We don’t talk about that [in comparing Kobe and Jordan]. We only talk about hand checking and physicality. So imagine if the best scorers in our game today—Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, guys like that—played all one-on-one, all the time. Imagine the points they would score. Imagine the averages we would see. Once he was in his prime they started to breed the 6-8 super-athletic shooting guard, and he was out there holding his own against everybody,” Durant says. ”
“I never held true to that argument,” says former All-Star, Warriors coach and current ESPN on ABC analyst Mark Jackson. “And the fact of the matter is that there was Dr. J before Jordan. Jordan will tell you that. We don’t say there was no way Jordan could be better than Dr. J. because he emulated him. It makes no sense. At the end of the day, Kobe has put himself in the discussion because of his greatness, how hard he’s worked. You have to be that good. Larry Holmes isn’t Ali, not because he didn’t work his tail off. He’s just not Ali because he wasn’t as great as him. Let’s give Kobe his credit.
“With guys like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, the rules don’t matter,” says Mark Jackson. “So I wouldn’t dumb down their greatness and give any credit to rules.”
“Do you know the mindset that it takes to allow that to wear on you physically and mentally and still go out and do your job?” Jackson asks. In response to Kobe’s “sanctuary” argument, Jackson says, “It’s fine to say that’s where you express yourself. And there are guys that would feel the same way, but nobody would’ve done it like he did. I mean, he went out and still performed at an all-time great level in the process of going through it. And I would bet my last dollar that only two guys in the history of the game could’ve done it, and that’s Michael and Kobe. And one had the platform to do it, so we know he did it.”
“Probably the most memorable is, I think it was our first championship, going against Indiana. And the refs were giving me a hard time and I fouled out and if Indiana won the game they could tie it. And right before I fouled out Kobe looked at me, he didn’t have a worry in the world. He said, ‘I got you, big fella. I’m gonna’ take over.’ I think after that game I think that’s when I said ‘he’s the best player ever’.”
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Steve Smith (April 13th, 2016):
“Nothing wrong with trying to be like Michael Jordan. Different eras, but close eras. I got a chance to guard both of them. I will say, for me, he’s the most athletic fundamentally sound player I ever played against. Then he was a mad scientist that could break down his game, your game, but he did it with a machete, because he’s trying to basically take your heart out. The way he approached each play was different than most superstars. In my opinion Michael kind of knew that he was going to will himself to a win. Kobe felt like ‘I had to win every play’. Both the same type of approach to this game with passion. But I think he was the most fundamentally athletic player I ever played against.”
Iverson recently sat down with rapper Jadakiss for a wide-ranging interview that touched on a number of topics, including his top five players of all-time -- though Iverson was hard-pressed to settle on a fifth.
"Mike [Jordan], Shaq [O'Neal], Kobe [Bryant], LeBron [James]. [The fifth one] could be a lot of dudes," he said.
“You don’t know how good you got something until it’s gone. When I left L.A. I got DWade, similar type of player. But when I went on after that I was like, ‘You know what? I had the greatest player ever.’ We could’ve won 6, 7 championships together. You live and you learn.”
[Best player since Jordan?]
“I’d probably have to go with the Kobester. ‘Cause his attitude was Jordan-like. He was able to take over games, especially in the 4th quarter. For example: when I tested Kobe out for his last game I said, ‘Kobe, I need you to hit 50.’ He said, “Nah, I’m not gonna’ do it.” But when he saw me there and he started going he said, ‘You know what? You want me to get 50, Big Dawg? I’ll do it for you.’ And he’s always had that ability. It’ll be times in the games, especially in the playoffs, where I’m not really going or I’m tired, and I’d be like, ‘Kobe, I need you to take over.’ And he would take over every time. 50 out of 50 times. It was never a time where I asked Kobe to take over the game and he didn’t perform. So, to answer your question I gotta’ go with the Kobester.”
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Dwyane Wade (January 4th, 2017):
"For me, 1-2, however you want to put 'em, is him and Kobe," Wade said, via 16 Wins A Ring's Spencer Davies. "Obviously I've had to guard Kobe more, so I've been in that battle a little more with Kobe. But LeBron, we've never seen a player like him. We've seen Magic, they got a similar style, but what he does in a game, how he affects games, I haven't seen that. I haven't went against it. But him and Kobe for sure are the hardest and toughest guys that I've ever had to play against."
"I'd put MJ at the 1, Kobe at the 2, Ray Allen at the 3, gotta space it out, got to have a spot up 4, so I'm probably going to go with KG, he's going to rim-run, do the dirty work. I'd put Shaq at the 5."
“You couldn’t have had a better player for that time than Kobe Bryant. He soaked up every bit of that and used that to what he is now. Which is one of the greatest, if not the greatest player of all time.”
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Love this list of quotes. I don't care if people agree or not, can we sticky this quotes
“You’ve never seen anyone with the footwork [Kobe] has, the athleticism, the shooting ability,” Kevin Durant tells me. “Being able to shoot the three off the dribble, off the catch and shoot, off the post. You’ve never seen that many skills in one person, outside of Michael Jordan. Of course, he doesn’t have six finals MVPs, or six titles, but skill for skill he’s unmatched.”
“If you gave any one of us guys that can score at a high level [such] one-on-one coverage, it’s to our advantage every time,” Durant says to me. “We don’t talk about that [in comparing Kobe and Jordan]. We only talk about hand checking and physicality. So imagine if the best scorers in our game today—Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, guys like that—played all one-on-one, all the time. Imagine the points they would score. Imagine the averages we would see. Once he was in his prime they started to breed the 6-8 super-athletic shooting guard, and he was out there holding his own against everybody,” Durant says. ”
This one in particular is ignored consistently by people comparing jordan to modern players _________________ Kobe
That's an impressive list batguano. I don't have Kobe over MJ or Kareem personally, nor probably Wilt, but he's over Lebron by a solid and probably settled margin, and these quotes are interesting. Well done.
wait wait... let's talk to John Salley. The guy that was on the team that beat jordan.
Mike's the goat right salley? Right?
John Salley thinks Isaiah Thomas is better than MJ. Dude has been all over the map. In facr, I'm pretty sure he has said MJ was the greatest ever AND not the greatest ever.
So cool thing is, if John Salley is truth then we can all be right.
Stop it... John Salley specificially stated he thinks I.thomas was the GOAT because he was as small as he was and dropped 40 in a crucial game on one leg.
It's somewhat how i feel about kobe vs jordan or bron.
I know it aint fair but its real. bron is by far the most hyper athletic player for his height/length/weight we have possibly ever seen maybe since wilt. but wilt didnt have handles(i know thats a skill. but thats somewhat a birth talent to be able to have that dribbling ability that early in his basketball life. he was a very good ball handler as a high school kid and he was already taller than most pgs at that point. he's not the guy that use to be a short guy placed at PG by coaches learned dribbling moves then shot up in height. nope. bron was a giant from day one.
so . we have jordan the most athletic and possibly the tallest/longest/guy with the largest hands at his position. right there tells me you're already ahead of everyone on paper before the ball is tossed up. thats real nice to be ahead of all your peers before you step on the court. now if you care about skills. you can end up being the "best player" in the nba at that spot a lot easier than others like a short I.thomas. I.thomas wasnt the most athletic guy at his spot(he was quick, but so was a lot of pg's), he surely wasnt the tallest, the strongest, the longest, the biggest...
Kobe bryant unlike bron or jordan. was never the tallest SG out there. he was never the most athletic SG out there. He was never the longest SG out there. he was never the strongest/biggest SG out there. He surely didnt have the largest hands(which gives you ultimate control over the basketball(EVERYONE KNOWS THIS IS AN ADVANTAGE.) again. not bron's or jordan's fault. just is what it is. They were born that way.
This is why people who really pay attention could conceivably give Allen iverson a lot more credit than his wacky fg% would reward him. You have to think, this little skinny guy was doing all of that all by himself pretty much. that is insane. same thing with I.thomas. which is why Salley said what he said. Same with kobe. Kobe was doing this vs vince carter, ray allen, T.prince, Durant, Lebron, Name yourself any other athletic freaks of nature or ultra long/tall guys... AK47 in his prime got that work from kobe too.
There wasnt a single guy as long as athletic that was defensive minded like a prime AK47 to guard jordan. Quiet as kept their isnt one out there right now like that to guard bron...maybe KL. and we know how he made bron look in the finals.
I.thomas, hakeem, Kobe had a more uphill battle at their positions. Than Jordan, bron, shaq, Wilt.
the 3 guys at the top had to have even more skill than the guys at the bottom to win.
i didn't know about those durant quotes...those are really good. his point about the emergence of super athletic tall guards is a great point.
that's something i've been telling people when the debate comes up.
But this quote from Phil himself is what i've been trying to explain to people. we never had the chance to see kobe as just the scorer since he never had a scottie on the team to be the guy to setup his teammates. kobe had to play the role of pippen/jordan. who do you think had it harder. jordan or kobe when you look at that reality.
jordan could just be himself 100% of the time. where kobe had to fight his own desires to score in order to get teammates involved. not just hit a teammate in a corner for a 3 ball. but seriously run the offense just to get guys touches so they wont be standing around watching him the rest of the night.
lets take a look at this phil quote again:
Quote:
Phil Jackson (May 30th, 2001):
“I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now. And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it." [Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?] "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
jordan could just be himself 100% of the time. where kobe had to fight his own desires to score in order to get teammates involved. not just hit a teammate in a corner for a 3 ball. but seriously run the offense just to get guys touches so they wont be standing around watching him the rest of the night.
not to mention that Kobe had to do that against double and triple teams _________________ Kobe
i didn't know about those durant quotes...those are really good. his point about the emergence of super athletic tall guards is a great point.
that's something i've been telling people when the debate comes up.
But this quote from Phil himself is what i've been trying to explain to people. we never had the chance to see kobe as just the scorer since he never had a scottie on the team to be the guy to setup his teammates. kobe had to play the role of pippen/jordan. who do you think had it harder. jordan or kobe when you look at that reality.
jordan could just be himself 100% of the time. where kobe had to fight his own desires to score in order to get teammates involved. not just hit a teammate in a corner for a 3 ball. but seriously run the offense just to get guys touches so they wont be standing around watching him the rest of the night.
lets take a look at this phil quote again:
Quote:
Phil Jackson (May 30th, 2001):
“I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now. And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it." [Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?] "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
this quote also shows how much Kobe also had to transform to the role the team needed. From this in the Shaq years to the do everything guy when Shaq left to the combo guy with pau ring years to ev n the pure point after that. I don't think Jordan had to get out of his role for pretty much his career after Pippen came.
Another aspect is my view that Kobe would have eventually thrived with another big time reliable scorer like Melo. Or a Wade or Kyrie. Pau was a great complement and Kobe did great w him but not the same type of scorer I mean here. Never got to see how that would have eased the burden physically and mentally which in turn may have extended his health and probably his success. It is really nice for Lebron to be able to have the stress relief of Kyrie and even more w Wade before in the 4th especially. Lebron has had the greater burden and skill setting up his teammates and passing though.
i didn't know about those durant quotes...those are really good. his point about the emergence of super athletic tall guards is a great point.
that's something i've been telling people when the debate comes up.
But this quote from Phil himself is what i've been trying to explain to people. we never had the chance to see kobe as just the scorer since he never had a scottie on the team to be the guy to setup his teammates. kobe had to play the role of pippen/jordan. who do you think had it harder. jordan or kobe when you look at that reality.
jordan could just be himself 100% of the time. where kobe had to fight his own desires to score in order to get teammates involved. not just hit a teammate in a corner for a 3 ball. but seriously run the offense just to get guys touches so they wont be standing around watching him the rest of the night.
lets take a look at this phil quote again:
Quote:
Phil Jackson (May 30th, 2001):
“I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now. And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it." [Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?] "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
this quote also shows how much Kobe also had to transform to the role the team needed. From this in the Shaq years to the do everything guy when Shaq left to the combo guy with pau ring years to ev n the pure point after that. I don't think Jordan had to get out of his role for pretty much his career after Pippen came.
Another aspect is my view that Kobe would have eventually thrived with another big time reliable scorer like Melo. Or a Wade or Kyrie. Pau was a great complement and Kobe did great w him but not the same type of scorer I mean here. Never got to see how that would have eased the burden physically and mentally which in turn may have extended his health and probably his success. It is really nice for Lebron to be able to have the stress relief of Kyrie and even more w Wade before in the 4th especially. Lebron has had the greater burden and skill setting up his teammates and passing though.
lebron has no burdens at all. his teammates have the burden of always bailing him out. without them, all he would do is brick and turnover.
i didn't know about those durant quotes...those are really good. his point about the emergence of super athletic tall guards is a great point.
that's something i've been telling people when the debate comes up.
But this quote from Phil himself is what i've been trying to explain to people. we never had the chance to see kobe as just the scorer since he never had a scottie on the team to be the guy to setup his teammates. kobe had to play the role of pippen/jordan. who do you think had it harder. jordan or kobe when you look at that reality.
jordan could just be himself 100% of the time. where kobe had to fight his own desires to score in order to get teammates involved. not just hit a teammate in a corner for a 3 ball. but seriously run the offense just to get guys touches so they wont be standing around watching him the rest of the night.
lets take a look at this phil quote again:
Quote:
Phil Jackson (May 30th, 2001):
“I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now. And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it." [Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?] "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."
this quote also shows how much Kobe also had to transform to the role the team needed. From this in the Shaq years to the do everything guy when Shaq left to the combo guy with pau ring years to ev n the pure point after that. I don't think Jordan had to get out of his role for pretty much his career after Pippen came.
Another aspect is my view that Kobe would have eventually thrived with another big time reliable scorer like Melo. Or a Wade or Kyrie. Pau was a great complement and Kobe did great w him but not the same type of scorer I mean here. Never got to see how that would have eased the burden physically and mentally which in turn may have extended his health and probably his success. It is really nice for Lebron to be able to have the stress relief of Kyrie and even more w Wade before in the 4th especially. Lebron has had the greater burden and skill setting up his teammates and passing though.
lebron has no burdens at all. his teammates have the burden of always bailing him out. without them, all he would do is brick and turnover.
Lebron has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy. =burden. He had no teammates bailing him out in Cleveland pre-Miami.
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: Re: Dr. Michael Eric Dyson: "Kobe is the Greatest Basketball Player of All-Time"
Batguano wrote:
Dr. Michael Eric Dyson was on First Take yesterday and he had this to say about Kobe:
Quote:
"Jordan can never be duplicated. What he did for the culture. What he represented. What he did in terms of taking the game global. What he did in terms of making it as sexy as possible. That's undeniable. And joining the culture of commerce to the culture of black athletic style. The man is incredible. Because people forget: the hoop earring, the shaved hair, the baggy shorts... That's not the hood, that's Michael Jordan. So there's no doubt about it. But, to me: basketball on the court, complicated shots, shooting over taller opponents, footwork with extraordinary grace. The élan vital of the athletic balladry that he put on that court, I think there has been nobody better than Kobe Bryant. I think with the kind of will to win and playing through injury. Here's Michael Jordan: he's sick in one game, has a temperature. Scottie Pippen has to take him off the court. "Oh my god, look at him." This man played with a broken finger and won a championship. Had to rotate the ball off of the broken finger. I'm not denying the genius of Michael Jordan, I'm saying Kobe Bean Bryant, in my estimation, was the greatest basketball player. Studied the game, was a student of the game, worked harder than anybody else, including Jordan, to do what he did. That's why I think he's the greatest of all time."
Quote:
- "Jordan never had to defer to a great player like Shaq."
Quote:
- "Phil Jackson was not trying to regulate on Michael Jordan the way he did on Kobe. Now we see what Phil Jackson is made of."
Quote:
- "Kobe is the Greatest of All Time. The GOAT. Not a derivative. Jesus was derivative of God but he still managed to be divine."
Quote:
- "He [Jordan] was never tested to that degree [08 Celtics]. Kobe is better because he came back from defeat."
Counterpoint:
And for the soul who was speaking of Kareem, watch him abuse Kareem as well. There's Wilt. Then there's everybody else, and it's not even close.
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Dr. Michael Eric Dyson: "Kobe is the Greatest Basketball Player of All-Time"
Slappy wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Dr. Michael Eric Dyson was on First Take yesterday and he had this to say about Kobe:
Quote:
"Jordan can never be duplicated. What he did for the culture. What he represented. What he did in terms of taking the game global. What he did in terms of making it as sexy as possible. That's undeniable. And joining the culture of commerce to the culture of black athletic style. The man is incredible. Because people forget: the hoop earring, the shaved hair, the baggy shorts... That's not the hood, that's Michael Jordan. So there's no doubt about it. But, to me: basketball on the court, complicated shots, shooting over taller opponents, footwork with extraordinary grace. The élan vital of the athletic balladry that he put on that court, I think there has been nobody better than Kobe Bryant. I think with the kind of will to win and playing through injury. Here's Michael Jordan: he's sick in one game, has a temperature. Scottie Pippen has to take him off the court. "Oh my god, look at him." This man played with a broken finger and won a championship. Had to rotate the ball off of the broken finger. I'm not denying the genius of Michael Jordan, I'm saying Kobe Bean Bryant, in my estimation, was the greatest basketball player. Studied the game, was a student of the game, worked harder than anybody else, including Jordan, to do what he did. That's why I think he's the greatest of all time."
Quote:
- "Jordan never had to defer to a great player like Shaq."
Quote:
- "Phil Jackson was not trying to regulate on Michael Jordan the way he did on Kobe. Now we see what Phil Jackson is made of."
Quote:
- "Kobe is the Greatest of All Time. The GOAT. Not a derivative. Jesus was derivative of God but he still managed to be divine."
Quote:
- "He [Jordan] was never tested to that degree [08 Celtics]. Kobe is better because he came back from defeat."
Counterpoint:
And for the soul who was speaking of Kareem, watch him abuse Kareem as well. There's Wilt. Then there's everybody else, and it's not even close.
nobody's better than wilt. once i learned he had a fadeaway, i was convinced there is just no way someone can be better than wilt. if someone was shaq's size, and hitting threes like curry, and getting 20 rebounds a game...then maybe that person would be better than wilt. and not even kareem...wilt didn't have a skyhook, but he had a hook shot, a very reliable one... like he'll just hit it casually from 15-20'.
however...wilt did acknowledge kareem as the best when kareem was a rookie and wilt was sort of on the older side...about 10 years difference.
The answer has been set in stone for almost half a century now.
Wilt's advocates: Wilt was the better individual talent, but Russell was surrounded by far better teammates. NBA basketball isn't a 1-on-1 game and even a player as great as Wilt couldn't beat a squad of 8 or 9 Hall of Famers with inadequate support.
Russell advocates: Russell cared more about winning and did things that helped his team win, while Wilt cared more about stats and showmanship. As an example, Red Auerbach would tell you that Wilt loved to swat the ball thunderously out of bound for the effect while Russell tried to block balls so his teammates could recover them -- that, to Red, epitomized the difference between them.
The answer has been set in stone for almost half a century now.
Wilt's advocates: Wilt was the better individual talent, but Russell was surrounded by far better teammates. NBA basketball isn't a 1-on-1 game and even a player as great as Wilt couldn't beat a squad of 8 or 9 Hall of Famers with inadequate support.
Russell advocates: Russell cared more about winning and did things that helped his team win, while Wilt cared more about stats and showmanship. As an example, Red Auerbach would tell you that Wilt loved to swat the ball thunderously out of bound for the effect while Russell tried to block balls so his teammates could recover them -- that, to Red, epitomized the difference between them.
it's not about "caring". your first point is it: wilt didn't have that celtics squad. you swap bill and russell, and, well, maybe the celtics win 15 championships. and i don't know how true that swatting thing is. of the few clips available, that doesn't seem to be the case. maybe he did that once in a while, but the clips show him controlling the ball...sometimes even just grabbing the ball with both hands (holy cow).
russell is a bit like lebron...he wasn't the "best" of his time, but he won a lot because his team was by far the best. being great at defense is waaaaaay easier than being great on offense.
The answer has been set in stone for almost half a century now.
Wilt's advocates: Wilt was the better individual talent, but Russell was surrounded by far better teammates. NBA basketball isn't a 1-on-1 game and even a player as great as Wilt couldn't beat a squad of 8 or 9 Hall of Famers with inadequate support.
Russell advocates: Russell cared more about winning and did things that helped his team win, while Wilt cared more about stats and showmanship. As an example, Red Auerbach would tell you that Wilt loved to swat the ball thunderously out of bound for the effect while Russell tried to block balls so his teammates could recover them -- that, to Red, epitomized the difference between them.
it's not about "caring". your first point is it: wilt didn't have that celtics squad. you swap bill and russell, and, well, maybe the celtics win 15 championships. and i don't know how true that swatting thing is. of the few clips available, that doesn't seem to be the case. maybe he did that once in a while, but the clips show him controlling the ball...sometimes even just grabbing the ball with both hands (holy cow).
russell is a bit like lebron...he wasn't the "best" of his time, but he won a lot because his team was by far the best. being great at defense is waaaaaay easier than being great on offense.
The swatting comment was from Red Auerbach not me. I heard him say it on the day Wilt died, which I thought was terribly insensitive, but that was Red. Anyway, if you have a complaint about it, take it up with Red (if you can figure out how, since he died a decade ago.)
The answer has been set in stone for almost half a century now.
Wilt's advocates: Wilt was the better individual talent, but Russell was surrounded by far better teammates. NBA basketball isn't a 1-on-1 game and even a player as great as Wilt couldn't beat a squad of 8 or 9 Hall of Famers with inadequate support.
Russell advocates: Russell cared more about winning and did things that helped his team win, while Wilt cared more about stats and showmanship. As an example, Red Auerbach would tell you that Wilt loved to swat the ball thunderously out of bound for the effect while Russell tried to block balls so his teammates could recover them -- that, to Red, epitomized the difference between them.
it's not about "caring". your first point is it: wilt didn't have that celtics squad. you swap bill and russell, and, well, maybe the celtics win 15 championships. and i don't know how true that swatting thing is. of the few clips available, that doesn't seem to be the case. maybe he did that once in a while, but the clips show him controlling the ball...sometimes even just grabbing the ball with both hands (holy cow).
russell is a bit like lebron...he wasn't the "best" of his time, but he won a lot because his team was by far the best. being great at defense is waaaaaay easier than being great on offense.
The swatting comment was from Red Auerbach not me. I heard him say it on the day Wilt died, which I thought was terribly insensitive, but that was Red. Anyway, if you have a complaint about it, take it up with Red (if you can figure out how, since he died a decade ago.)
i wasnt attacking you or anything. sheesh. all i as saying from all the video out there, i don't even think once he swats it in the way described. he always seems to want control and do the "right" thing. but as they say, only 2.5% of his plays are on video.
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