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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Zubac hit 50% of his mid range jumpers this year! 21 of 42. He also flashed some three point range in the Dleague, shooting 4 of 11 from three. His jumper is going to be a big strength for us going forward. I think he'll eventually be a stretch 5, capable of knocking down open threes.
I'm really disappointed he wasn't given the green light to fire some threes for the Lakers this year. He's probably a better three point shooter than Nance and Randle already, and they were given the green light.
Man, so excited about Zubac. If he can translate his high hoops IQ to the defensive end, he's going to be a damn good player. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Zubac's fate all depends on his ability to anchor a defense and be a competent pick and roll defender. No matter how great he comes offensively, if he's not there defensively, he would be no more than an empty stats guy just like a Brook Lopez or Nikola Vucevic. He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Zubac's fate all depends on his ability to anchor a defense and be a competent pick and roll defender. No matter how great he comes offensively, if he's not there defensively, he would be no more than an empty stats guy just like a Brook Lopez or Nikola Vucevic. He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. | defense is certainly the key for him. But I don't think having traditional center mobility will prevent him from being a solid defender. Marc Gasol has pretty mediocre mobility as well, he moves like a traditional center. But fundamentals and awareness combined with a strong 7 foot frame have made him one of the best defensive centers of his era. I don't think Zubac looks much slower than Gasol. Zubac just has to learn technique and improve his defensive awareness. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Jokic can't play a lick of defense either. |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. | Seroiously though, is Zuback really that much slower than a rookie Marc Gasol? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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dao wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. | Seroiously though, is Zuback really that much slower than a rookie Marc Gasol? |
Marc is the major exception. Just amazing defensive IQ. The basketball landscape sadly is littered with immobile big men who are Zub's size and weight. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the problem with Marc Gasol... he's the best case for Zubac and even he isn't ideal for the modern NBA. Also, Marc was in pretty poor shape when he entered the NBA. Zubac is already in better shape than Marc was. Still, Marc was the exception, not the rule, and banking on Zubac being another exception to the rule is pretty optimistic. It's the same kind of mentality that had people wanting Okafor over Russell, and continuing to want Okafor until as recently as early this season.
I think there is some putting the cart before the horse here when it comes to Zubac. It makes little sense for me to see him as an asset equal to Randle, no less Ingram or Russell. When you can only name one plodding big man as an acceptable example, you know you're grasping for a way to rationalize how Zubac will still make it against all odds. I hope we can get there, and I do believe its possible, but we should also be realistic. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | Jokic can't play a lick of defense either. |
But that's not due to physical limitations. He has the mobility where he could be... just a matter of him wanting to be and putting out the effort. That's a pretty big distinction. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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dao wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. | Seroiously though, is Zuback really that much slower than a rookie Marc Gasol? |
He is not slower than most centers as you can see him in transition, he is slow to react, something that has a lot to do with his stance.
Zubac played just about 600 minutes the entire season at the age of 19, clearly away from peak condition and still could post solid numbers per 36 and finished March when he had the opportunity to play with our starting PG with the best PER among our young players. He has to improve his pick and roll defense, so need our guards that use to keep our bigs exposed way to often, but he has very good instincts blocking shots at the rim and still has room to improve when he learns to use his offhand. By the way, using the offhand is something our young guys have to work on because Julius still avoids finishing with this right, Dlo is a modern PG that almost don't use his offhand to pass the ball and Zubac has the tendency to use his right to block shots even when it is a clearly situation when he should use his left. All correctable, in Zubac's case it can be easier since he is the youngest of the crop. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | Jokic can't play a lick of defense either. |
But that's not due to physical limitations. He has the mobility where he could be... just a matter of him wanting to be and putting out the effort. That's a pretty big distinction. |
He has good footwork but he is pretty slow. You can read all the scouting reports before the draft. He will never be a great PnR defender. He has just compensated with great offense. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Here's the problem with Marc Gasol... he's the best case for Zubac and even he isn't ideal for the modern NBA. Also, Marc was in pretty poor shape when he entered the NBA. Zubac is already in better shape than Marc was. Still, Marc was the exception, not the rule, and banking on Zubac being another exception to the rule is pretty optimistic. It's the same kind of mentality that had people wanting Okafor over Russell, and continuing to want Okafor until as recently as early this season.
I think there is some putting the cart before the horse here when it comes to Zubac. It makes little sense for me to see him as an asset equal to Randle, no less Ingram or Russell. When you can only name one plodding big man as an acceptable example, you know you're grasping for a way to rationalize how Zubac will still make it against all odds. I hope we can get there, and I do believe its possible, but we should also be realistic. |
Marc Gasol... aka a center with a post game, mid range game, that can play very good defense is VERY MUCH A FIT in the modern NBA. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | Here's the problem with Marc Gasol... he's the best case for Zubac and even he isn't ideal for the modern NBA. Also, Marc was in pretty poor shape when he entered the NBA. Zubac is already in better shape than Marc was. Still, Marc was the exception, not the rule, and banking on Zubac being another exception to the rule is pretty optimistic. It's the same kind of mentality that had people wanting Okafor over Russell, and continuing to want Okafor until as recently as early this season.
I think there is some putting the cart before the horse here when it comes to Zubac. It makes little sense for me to see him as an asset equal to Randle, no less Ingram or Russell. When you can only name one plodding big man as an acceptable example, you know you're grasping for a way to rationalize how Zubac will still make it against all odds. I hope we can get there, and I do believe its possible, but we should also be realistic. |
Marc Gasol... aka a center with a post game, mid range game, that can play very good defense is VERY MUCH A FIT in the modern NBA. |
If Zubac has his 3-pt shot, he will be fine. That is what makes the big difference. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | Jokic can't play a lick of defense either. |
But that's not due to physical limitations. He has the mobility where he could be... just a matter of him wanting to be and putting out the effort. That's a pretty big distinction. |
He has good footwork but he is pretty slow. You can read all the scouting reports before the draft. He will never be a great PnR defender. He has just compensated with great offense. |
Obviously all the scouting reports were wrong, or he wouldn't have been picked in the 2nd round, no less outside the top 5. Pre-draft scouting reports mean very little once players hit the NBA. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | LakerLogic wrote: | Jokic can't play a lick of defense either. |
But that's not due to physical limitations. He has the mobility where he could be... just a matter of him wanting to be and putting out the effort. That's a pretty big distinction. |
He has good footwork but he is pretty slow. You can read all the scouting reports before the draft. He will never be a great PnR defender. He has just compensated with great offense. |
Obviously all the scouting reports were wrong, or he wouldn't have been picked in the 2nd round, no less outside the top 5. Pre-draft scouting reports mean very little once players hit the NBA. |
Yeah they were wrong about his impact offensively, not his athleticism. That is the point. He's not an athlete and will likely never be a plus defender. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: |
Obviously all the scouting reports were wrong, or he wouldn't have been picked in the 2nd round, no less outside the top 5. Pre-draft scouting reports mean very little once players hit the NBA. |
That is true
My personal opinion about 7' is that before the recent class of KAT, Jokic and Embiid there is not a single skilled giant since ... I can't even remember. Dwight, DeAndre ... those guys are scrubs with god given physical atributes. Mark Gasol has a good, not great skillset and was one of the main reasons his team was competitive, but his major impact was on defense. Next season Zubac may get more playing time and develop his body, in about two or three years we are going to know if he is a viable player in modern NBA.
I'm not telling Zubac is going to be a dominant force, it is just that I don't think he is a worst prospect than other praised young guys we have. I mean, there is nobody looking like KAT here. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | MJST wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | Here's the problem with Marc Gasol... he's the best case for Zubac and even he isn't ideal for the modern NBA. Also, Marc was in pretty poor shape when he entered the NBA. Zubac is already in better shape than Marc was. Still, Marc was the exception, not the rule, and banking on Zubac being another exception to the rule is pretty optimistic. It's the same kind of mentality that had people wanting Okafor over Russell, and continuing to want Okafor until as recently as early this season.
I think there is some putting the cart before the horse here when it comes to Zubac. It makes little sense for me to see him as an asset equal to Randle, no less Ingram or Russell. When you can only name one plodding big man as an acceptable example, you know you're grasping for a way to rationalize how Zubac will still make it against all odds. I hope we can get there, and I do believe its possible, but we should also be realistic. |
Marc Gasol... aka a center with a post game, mid range game, that can play very good defense is VERY MUCH A FIT in the modern NBA. |
If Zubac has his 3-pt shot, he will be fine. That is what makes the big difference. |
Centers don't have to shoot threes and be stretch 5s. Being consistent from mid, pick and roll, the post and playing solid defense is enough. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | dao wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. | Seroiously though, is Zuback really that much slower than a rookie Marc Gasol? |
He is not slower than most centers as you can see him in transition, he is slow to react, something that has a lot to do with his stance.
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this article agrees with that. Zubac is not only physically slow, but also slow to react due to lack of awareness and poor defensive stance. Both of these things seem highly correctable though, since he seems to be a high IQ player and is highly coachable.
Lakers coach Luke Walton, who credited Zubac's hard work in practice and in the NBA Development League as the driving factors in pushing the then 19-year-old into the starting lineup, also pointed to the defensive side of the ball when asked about what areas to big Bosnian-born Croatian needed to work on entering the summer.
Walton said, "He needs to get defensively ready to make plays. His reactions are a little slow. I think it's because he's constantly standing upright. He needs to do a better job of staying low when he's away from the ball. When he's engaged in the play, he's pretty good as far as being active and reacting to what's happening. But a lot of times, he gets either fouls or beat because he has to react to once he sees the action, and that takes too long in this league."
The coach added, "I think he'll continue to get stronger, which will obviously help. He's got a real good feel for protecting the rim and getting block shots."
With regards to getting stronger, Zubac's offseason focus is precisely on building up his body. While the Croatian's pronunciation of the word "muscles" is endearing and forces an exercise in reporters' face muscles, the young center seems to understand that his offseason work in the weight room is of the utmost importance.
"We're going to work hard on my body, put on some muscles," Zubac tells NBCLA.com about his summer plans. "That's going to help me a lot to run faster, to move quicker, to jump higher. So that's where we should start. There's a lot of work to do. I think every part of my body needs improvement."
Zubac adds, "In Europe, I didn't do a lot (of weight training), maybe once a week or something like that. And it was very light. And now, I'm doing every day in the weight room. It's really different. I like it. It helps me a lot. I think this summer I'm going to spend a lot of time in weight room, and next season is going to be much better."
Asked how he can work on quickness and defensive speed over the summer, Zubac offers an answer that is the opposite of the sports cliché and yet sounds like the perfect response every coach and team would love to overhear from a player: "To be honest, I don't know. My coaches know. They're going to know everything. I just got to listen to them. They know what they do. I think that's the only way I can improve: to work hard, to listen to my coaches. Not to question anything."
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Ivica-Zubac-Lakers-Rookie-showing-promise-417238443.html
Gasol is also slow afoot, as is pretty much everyone with a 7 foot, 250+ frame. But he's quick mentally. He has excellent technique and is fast to react mentally to what's going on. That comes from natural feel for the game/hoops IQ combined with experience. Zubac also has great feel for the game. I think he'll eventually have excellent defensive awareness as well. He just needs the experience. I think he's a high IQ player. |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | dao wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | He has a pretty tough road to take in today's modern NBA, but rooting for him. | Seroiously though, is Zuback really that much slower than a rookie Marc Gasol? |
Marc is the major exception. Just amazing defensive IQ. The basketball landscape sadly is littered with immobile big men who are Zub's size and weight. | Zu also seems like a highly intelligent player for his age and level of experience. He's demonstrated natural feel and IQ on the offensive end. With time, I think we'll also see it on the defensive end. And if he can do that, his feet won't stop him from being a good defender. |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Here's the problem with Marc Gasol... he's the best case for Zubac and even he isn't ideal for the modern NBA. Also, Marc was in pretty poor shape when he entered the NBA. Zubac is already in better shape than Marc was. Still, Marc was the exception, not the rule, and banking on Zubac being another exception to the rule is pretty optimistic. It's the same kind of mentality that had people wanting Okafor over Russell, and continuing to want Okafor until as recently as early this season.
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Zubac is a better shot blocker than Gasol, so that works in his favor to some degree. And Gasol is one of the best defensive bigs in the NBA. Having a Marc Gasol defensive ceiling is not a bad thing, not at all, especially since Zubac is on track to be a better offensive player than him. Zubac gives great effort on D. A guy like Okafor doesn't even give a damn about playing tough defense. Giving a damn is the most essential ingredient to successful defense. Having high awareness and quick reactions is probably second most important. I think Zubac will have both of these bases covered. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40188 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious to see Zubac's improvement on the screen-roll in the summer league after a year of NBA speed and dropping weight. I distinctly remember how much space he was giving up. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | I'm curious to see Zubac's improvement on the screen-roll in the summer league after a year of NBA speed and dropping weight. I distinctly remember how much space he was giving up. |
That's the key. Being a good shot blocker with a man in front of you doesn't mean much if you're consistently letting players get behind you. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | DancingBarry wrote: | I'm curious to see Zubac's improvement on the screen-roll in the summer league after a year of NBA speed and dropping weight. I distinctly remember how much space he was giving up. |
That's the key. Being a good shot blocker with a man in front of you doesn't mean much if you're consistently letting players get behind you. |
It is tough for our bigs because our perimeter defense is so porous. JC and Dlo aren't proficient defenders and our bigs get exposed way to often. That where Nance helps us a lot, because he is great helping our perimeter guys. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | DancingBarry wrote: | I'm curious to see Zubac's improvement on the screen-roll in the summer league after a year of NBA speed and dropping weight. I distinctly remember how much space he was giving up. |
That's the key. Being a good shot blocker with a man in front of you doesn't mean much if you're consistently letting players get behind you. |
It is tough for our bigs because our perimeter defense is so porous. JC and Dlo aren't proficient defenders and our bigs get exposed way to often. That where Nance helps us a lot, because he is great helping our perimeter guys. |
That's a very chicken-egg argument. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | nash wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | DancingBarry wrote: | I'm curious to see Zubac's improvement on the screen-roll in the summer league after a year of NBA speed and dropping weight. I distinctly remember how much space he was giving up. |
That's the key. Being a good shot blocker with a man in front of you doesn't mean much if you're consistently letting players get behind you. |
It is tough for our bigs because our perimeter defense is so porous. JC and Dlo aren't proficient defenders and our bigs get exposed way to often. That where Nance helps us a lot, because he is great helping our perimeter guys. |
That's a very chicken-egg argument. |
I'm just giving you another perspective of the facts. Sometimes we have a biased opinion about a player, then we have to look at the whole picture. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | nash wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | DancingBarry wrote: | I'm curious to see Zubac's improvement on the screen-roll in the summer league after a year of NBA speed and dropping weight. I distinctly remember how much space he was giving up. |
That's the key. Being a good shot blocker with a man in front of you doesn't mean much if you're consistently letting players get behind you. |
It is tough for our bigs because our perimeter defense is so porous. JC and Dlo aren't proficient defenders and our bigs get exposed way to often. That where Nance helps us a lot, because he is great helping our perimeter guys. |
That's a very chicken-egg argument. |
I'm just giving you another perspective of the facts. Sometimes we have a biased opinion about a player, then we have to look at the whole picture. |
That's truly funny. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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