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P.K.
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 Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | The problem with hiring another Arizona guy, in my opinion, is that they all trained in the Lute Olson school of bball. That's getting pretty "uni-toned" from the coaching staff. Getting some diverse voices in there with different experience would have been better.
and again, I'd have seriously preferred a top defensive coach before anyone else. That, and hiring KAJ as the big man coach too, of course. |
I respectfully disagree with this take. In addition to Lute Olson, Miles Simon played for Chuck Daly in Orlando, arguably one of the top three NBA coaches in the late 80s/early 90s. And perhaps the best defensive coach in that time. Not to mention Simon's stint with the Dakota Wizards coached by Dave Joerger, who turned out to be a pretty decent NBA coach in his own right. I can't speak to the quality of coaches he had playing overseas, but based on his American resume, I don't think it's fair to act like he hasn't had exposure to other coaches/schools of thought. |
Simon played in exactly 5 games for Orlando. He was a tail end of the bench player.
If you go back and read my post, I never said I had a problem with Simon himself - I actually like the guy. I question the logic of a majority of your staff being from Arizona (and I say that even though I went to Arizona). Miles attended AZ, and then was an assistant coach for Lute Olson for 3 years. That's a lot of Lute years
Combined with Jesse, Jud, and Luke that's 4 out of 7 coaches from the Lute Olson school of bball - yeah, Lute was great. But that's still a lot of 'Cats, and a more broad background might have been a better choice.
And, a defensive expert coach is something everyone can see we need. Miles might have been a good defender - but the simple fact that no team hired him to coach after Lute retired in 2008 kind of puts a damper on the idea that he'd be some kind of recognized defensive coaching expert, doesn't it?
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AC Green's V-Card
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Joined: 09 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | The problem with hiring another Arizona guy, in my opinion, is that they all trained in the Lute Olson school of bball. That's getting pretty "uni-toned" from the coaching staff. Getting some diverse voices in there with different experience would have been better.
and again, I'd have seriously preferred a top defensive coach before anyone else. That, and hiring KAJ as the big man coach too, of course. |
I respectfully disagree with this take. In addition to Lute Olson, Miles Simon played for Chuck Daly in Orlando, arguably one of the top three NBA coaches in the late 80s/early 90s. And perhaps the best defensive coach in that time. Not to mention Simon's stint with the Dakota Wizards coached by Dave Joerger, who turned out to be a pretty decent NBA coach in his own right. I can't speak to the quality of coaches he had playing overseas, but based on his American resume, I don't think it's fair to act like he hasn't had exposure to other coaches/schools of thought. |
Simon played in exactly 5 games for Orlando. He was a tail end of the bench player.
If you go back and read my post, I never said I had a problem with Simon himself - I actually like the guy. I question the logic of a majority of your staff being from Arizona (and I say that even though I went to Arizona). Miles attended AZ, and then was an assistant coach for Lute Olson for 3 years. That's a lot of Lute years
Combined with Jesse, Jud, and Luke that's 4 out of 7 coaches from the Lute Olson school of bball - yeah, Lute was great. But that's still a lot of 'Cats, and a more broad background might have been a better choice.
And, a defensive expert coach is something everyone can see we need. Miles might have been a good defender - but the simple fact that no team hired him to coach after Lute retired in 2008 kind of puts a damper on the idea that he'd be some kind of recognized defensive coaching expert, doesn't it? |
P.K. you seem like a good guy, but you gotta go beyond a quick glance at a box score. You are correct. Simon played 5 games for the Magic. And he was also drafted by them and spent the entire season on the roster. Are you saying a player can't learn from a coach because they don't see consistent game action? I don't think you are because that would be an absolutely silly point to make.
You completely glossed over the Dave Joerger point, of which Miles spent two seasons with him. Is that not a good coach to learn from in your estimation?
As for your "too many Wildcats" point, the Warriors had three on their staff last year (Kerr, Luke, and Fraser). Is there an acceptable threshold for non-same coaching tree guys on a staff? Do you have any reservations about Miles Simon as a coach beyond this surface level similarity?
I don't think you nor I can say with any certainty why Simon wasn't hired to be a coach immediately after Sean Miller was hired. There are literally dozens of potential reasons why. Did he even want to coach? Did he want to concentrate on broadcasting? Did he want to bang hookers and do blow for a few years? I think you're reading too much into this hire, and it seems like you've already made your mind up without seeing what he can do.
Last edited by AC Green's V-Card on Fri May 26, 2017 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DoubleClutch
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | The problem with hiring another Arizona guy, in my opinion, is that they all trained in the Lute Olson school of bball. That's getting pretty "uni-toned" from the coaching staff. Getting some diverse voices in there with different experience would have been better.
and again, I'd have seriously preferred a top defensive coach before anyone else. That, and hiring KAJ as the big man coach too, of course. |
I respectfully disagree with this take. In addition to Lute Olson, Miles Simon played for Chuck Daly in Orlando, arguably one of the top three NBA coaches in the late 80s/early 90s. And perhaps the best defensive coach in that time. Not to mention Simon's stint with the Dakota Wizards coached by Dave Joerger, who turned out to be a pretty decent NBA coach in his own right. I can't speak to the quality of coaches he had playing overseas, but based on his American resume, I don't think it's fair to act like he hasn't had exposure to other coaches/schools of thought. |
Simon played in exactly 5 games for Orlando. He was a tail end of the bench player.
If you go back and read my post, I never said I had a problem with Simon himself - I actually like the guy. I question the logic of a majority of your staff being from Arizona (and I say that even though I went to Arizona). Miles attended AZ, and then was an assistant coach for Lute Olson for 3 years. That's a lot of Lute years
Combined with Jesse, Jud, and Luke that's 4 out of 7 coaches from the Lute Olson school of bball - yeah, Lute was great. But that's still a lot of 'Cats, and a more broad background might have been a better choice.
And, a defensive expert coach is something everyone can see we need. Miles might have been a good defender - but the simple fact that no team hired him to coach after Lute retired in 2008 kind of puts a damper on the idea that he'd be some kind of recognized defensive coaching expert, doesn't it? |
He's been coaching with the U17 national team the last few years. Tells me he's good at relating to young players. Maybe not an X's and O's guy, but that's not what you need from the 3rd chair.
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crucifixion
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Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 909
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow he has the same career averages as Dlo. |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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If Luke doesn't hire a Defense Coach or improve the Defense, I can't see him lasting more than 2 more years...
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Really a joke of a coaching staff in terms of assistants. Is Mike Bibby coming next? |
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jdm43390
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 1264
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Really a joke of a coaching staff in terms of assistants. Is Mike Bibby coming next? |
 ...That would siiick. Bibby, Simon, maybe they can bring in A.J. Bramlet  |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17682
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Sighs. Looking for actual coaching upgrades this summer on the staff and not just Luke Arizona buds. |
Frankly a bit laughable that people seem to think that's how little Luke thinks of the job -- that he would just hire an Arizona guy over a qualified assistant. Just because you don't see this guy's resume on Wikipedia doesn't mean this wasn't a good hire. Former scout Ed Isaacson (now a director of recruiting at a basketball talent/management agency) said this was a "fantastic move" by the Lakers and that Simon "has built [an] excellent reputation in player development between USA basketball and AAU."
https://twitter.com/Ed3PtSports/status/867902355521634308
So it's a guy that Luke knows, trusts, and has a reputation in player development. And the issue is? |
Thanks for posting.
Great to read some real and positive info as opposed to the half-baked theories from the "Everything sucks" crowd who would pass on a night with a supermodel because she had a birthmark on the bottom of her left foot. |
Okay, I'm more concerned with the subpar coaching staff Luke put together this past season & is hoping for more expireneced coaches on the staff next season.
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panamaniac
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Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 11239
Location: PTY
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| From what I gather, his main function will be in player department, an area where we haven't exactly set the world on fire. So I'll wait and see for results. |
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legend825
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 2496
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Hopefully players develop under his watch... |
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legend825
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| Still wondering who the defensive guru on the staff is. |
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LAkers 4 Life
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| So Miles Simon essentially replaces Theo Robertson's role on the team. He supposedly has a good reputation for player development, but I haven't really seen it much at the collegiate level with UofA. Luke still needs a veteran defensive coach and a great strategist on staff. Preferably a former head coach since that would mean they've been around the block. The Lakers could sorely use some veteran presence on the coaching front. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Can we hire Mike Brown? |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| That's the guy who was incredible in college but then became nothing at the NBA level right? Kinda like the Jimmer of his time. |
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Lovefool
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | If Luke doesn't hire a Defense Coach or improve the Defense, I can't see him lasting more than 2 more years... |
Lets be real about the defense...
You can have the best defensive coaches on your staff but it starts and ends with what the players do. Great defense is all about heart, effort, communicating, accountabilty, and staying true to the team's defensive principles that are implemented in training camp. To take a leap forward, the team needs to talk to each other. Know the strategy for every possible situation. Knowing what tendencies, strengths and weaknesses. And taking things away from an opponents available options. This is where analytics can really help. It is up to the players to do their homework and become students of the game. Watching film, and knowing exactly what to do. Knowing what your teammates will do. All communication. Players taking responcibilty and holding each other accountable. At the very core of playing great defense, is committing to it and leaving everything on the court. Missing assignments, is a lack of focus. You have to have that drive to want to defend. Talent surely helps. Coaching, well its their job. But you have to put the onus on the players on the court. They either want to defend and take that collective challenge or they dont. Hopefully, Luke learned a little bit about championship level defense when he was with the warriors. I know he didnt learn or practice it much under phil from what ive read about in the past. I hope they split practice up to equally address both sides of the ball. I think defense will help the fast break offense tremendously. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Lovefool wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | | If Luke doesn't hire a Defense Coach or improve the Defense, I can't see him lasting more than 2 more years... |
Lets be real about the defense...
You can have the best defensive coaches on your staff but it starts and ends with what the players do. Great defense is all about heart, effort, communicating, accountabilty, and staying true to the team's defensive principles that are implemented in training camp. To take a leap forward, the team needs to talk to each other. Know the strategy for every possible situation. Knowing what tendencies, strengths and weaknesses. And taking things away from an opponents available options. This is where analytics can really help. It is up to the players to do their homework and become students of the game. Watching film, and knowing exactly what to do. Knowing what your teammates will do. All communication. Players taking responcibilty and holding each other accountable. At the very core of playing great defense, is committing to it and leaving everything on the court. Missing assignments, is a lack of focus. You have to have that drive to want to defend. Talent surely helps. Coaching, well its their job. But you have to put the onus on the players on the court. They either want to defend and take that collective challenge or they dont. Hopefully, Luke learned a little bit about championship level defense when he was with the warriors. I know he didnt learn or practice it much under phil from what ive read about in the past. I hope they split practice up to equally address both sides of the ball. I think defense will help the fast break offense tremendously. |
Interesting. I actually think it's the opposite.
I think defense is mostly coaching. The majority of NBA level players have the athletic means and smarts to play it, it's just a matter of being told how. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Can we hire Mike Brown? |
Can we just hire him to hire all the assistants. Seriously, he ruled at that. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Really a joke of a coaching staff in terms of assistants. Is Mike Bibby coming next? |
Next bigman coach: Sean Rooks. |
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Yumyumcha
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Why would good experienced coaches go to a team that has a rookie coach? They either want to go to a team that has a coach he can learn things from or a championship level team. Luke and the Lakers offer neither one. Luke doesn't have the gravitas yet to pull people in. And you don't want hire an assistant coach who might be going to the press, the front office or players behind your back. Leaders need people they can trust. Those people Luke is hiring from Arizona probably gives him a degree of comfort and a small decorum of loyalty. Are they the best or worst for the position. We won't know until the season rolls out. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Yumyumcha wrote: | | Why would good experienced coaches go to a team that has a rookie coach? They either want to go to a team that has a coach he can learn things from or a championship level team. Luke and the Lakers offer neither one. Luke doesn't have the gravitas yet to pull people in. And you don't want hire an assistant coach who might be going to the press, the front office or players behind your back. Leaders need people they can trust. Those people Luke is hiring from Arizona probably gives him a degree of comfort and a small decorum of loyalty. Are they the best or worst for the position. We won't know until the season rolls out. |
You'd have to look at the staffs of other first time coaches to see if that's true. I suspect that he is hiring who he thinks are the best people in his orbit. It's just that his orbit is probably very small. |
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Yumyumcha
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Yumyumcha wrote: | | Why would good experienced coaches go to a team that has a rookie coach? They either want to go to a team that has a coach he can learn things from or a championship level team. Luke and the Lakers offer neither one. Luke doesn't have the gravitas yet to pull people in. And you don't want hire an assistant coach who might be going to the press, the front office or players behind your back. Leaders need people they can trust. Those people Luke is hiring from Arizona probably gives him a degree of comfort and a small decorum of loyalty. Are they the best or worst for the position. We won't know until the season rolls out. |
You'd have to look at the staffs of other first time coaches to see if that's true. I suspect that he is hiring who he thinks are the best people in his orbit. It's just that his orbit is probably very small. |
Agreed. I think that's a part of it too. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | So Miles Simon essentially replaces Theo Robertson's role on the team. He supposedly has a good reputation for player development, but I haven't really seen it much at the collegiate level with UofA. Luke still needs a veteran defensive coach and a great strategist on staff. Preferably a former head coach since that would mean they've been around the block. The Lakers could sorely use some veteran presence on the coaching front. |
And the FO, Pelinka is the only one involved with the game in the last decade.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Yumyumcha wrote: | | Why would good experienced coaches go to a team that has a rookie coach? They either want to go to a team that has a coach he can learn things from or a championship level team. Luke and the Lakers offer neither one. Luke doesn't have the gravitas yet to pull people in. And you don't want hire an assistant coach who might be going to the press, the front office or players behind your back. Leaders need people they can trust. Those people Luke is hiring from Arizona probably gives him a degree of comfort and a small decorum of loyalty. Are they the best or worst for the position. We won't know until the season rolls out. |
You'd have to look at the staffs of other first time coaches to see if that's true. I suspect that he is hiring who he thinks are the best people in his orbit. It's just that his orbit is probably very small. |
As a head coach you bring in people who you are comfortable with and who you know will support your vision.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | Really a joke of a coaching staff in terms of assistants. Is Mike Bibby coming next? |
Next bigman coach: Sean Rooks. |
I think he's waiting for Channing Frye to retire. |
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DancingBarry
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Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40203
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | Really a joke of a coaching staff in terms of assistants. Is Mike Bibby coming next? |
Next bigman coach: Sean Rooks. |
Died last year. R.I.P.  |
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