Analysis: the criticism of Lebron passing to Korver at the end of G3 is ridiculous

 
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Analysis: the criticism of Lebron passing to Korver at the end of G3 is ridiculous

With our Lakers rebuilding for the future, my wife and I have been rooting hard for the Warriors in the playoffs during the past three years. We also really, really (really) do not care for Lebron James and any team he happens to be on (unless he becomes a Laker, of course).

With that said, I believe in objectivity and am shocked at how many critics and professional NBA analysts are slamming Lebron for passing the ball to Korver near the end of game three. He absolutely made the correct decision.

Here is the video of that play.

There are four realistic options for Lebron to choose from as he initiates the play above the three-point line slightly to the right on the court. Green is guarding him, while the rest of the Cavs are spread for Lebron's isolation decision making:

Option #1
Take the three. I don't believe anyone thinks this is the best option when he is streaky at that range, it is late in the game so he is tired, and Green's defense would definitely challenge it well. Let's move on.

Option #2
Drive to the strong side (right) and make a play. This would have been a poor choice, and Lebron knows it. After stepping below the three point line, he begins his cross-up pre-attack moves that result in him throwing out a jab step to his right. Green goes aggressively to defend that side by stepping so strongly towards that direction he ends up sliding another half step.

No way was Green allowing an easy entry vs. Lebron's dominant hand because he knows the help (Durant) isn't back there, and he knows the only other help on the strong side (Klay on Kyrie at the right corner three) doesn't want to leave his man.

So if Lebron tried it anyway, he would have been cut off by Green just below the FT line extended. A forced midrange hook/jumper is inefficient, and kicking it to Kyrie results in a hard challenge on this small guy by the best perimeter defender in the playoffs (if not the entire season). #2 is a bad option.

Option #3
Drive to the weak side (left) and finish near the rim. So back near the three-point line with Green protecting against a drive to the right, Lebron has to drive left unless he takes the three.

Going left is indeed what he does, and it gives him a step on Green. However, Durant easily comes over just in front of the rim behind Green to help protect the paint with his spaghetti arms, which slows down Lebron's acceleration. Draymond is able to recover to double team him at the basket with his spaghetti arms, an effective double team. That is way too much defense for Lebron to force up a shot of any kind. He realizes this as well, which brings us to the only viable option, #4.

Option #4
Drive to the weak side (left) and pass to Korver. Lebron chose this option after the jab step described above let him know Green was going to prevent an effective strong side drive. He knew by going left, it would draw Durant into the paint to defend with Green.

Lebron logically concluded that Kyle Korver, a player leading the league over the season and in the playoffs at hitting the three with accuracy in the left corner was a far better option than the other ones, especially since the defender on Kyle is Curry, the smallest Warrior on the court. Love's attempt to set a pick for Korver (nice job by Curry to fight through it), makes this decision even more defendable.

~~~~~~~

In the press conference afterwards, Lebron said he'd do it again and I agree. If you simulated all four options a thousand times, the Korver three is the only one with a chance at a +50% success rate. It just didn't fall for him this time. How in the world does someone argue against what seems to be an obvious progression of events once the Cavs decided to go iso?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject:

Yup. Must have seen it a dozen times. It was the right play to make. That's why Korver's in the game.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject:

Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Analysis: the criticism of Lebron passing to Korver at the end of G3 is ridiculous

joeblow wrote:

With that said, I believe in objectivity and am shocked at how many critics and professional NBA analysts are slamming Lebron for passing the ball to Korver near the end of game three. He absolutely made the correct decision. ?


Early in his career, there were times that Lebron was hesitant to take a key shot. Those days ended long ago, but there is probably some residue feeling that Lebron doesn't like to shoot in the clutch.

Beyond that, some people still believe that the superstar on the team should always be the one to take the key shot. They think that shooting is the only "clutch' action that matters and tend to dismiss clutch passes, rebounds and defense.

Also, Lebron is unique among GOAT level players in that he is both a scorer and a facilitator. Often than Magic, most of the GOAT level guys are shoot-first scorers who are more likely to lock onto the basket than pass to a teammate who has a better shot.

Finally, bashing Lebron, whether he deserves it or not, is one of the NBA's great spectator sports.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Analysis: the criticism of Lebron passing to Korver at the end of G3 is ridiculous

activeverb wrote:
joeblow wrote:

With that said, I believe in objectivity and am shocked at how many critics and professional NBA analysts are slamming Lebron for passing the ball to Korver near the end of game three. He absolutely made the correct decision. ?


Early in his career, there were times that Lebron was hesitant to take a key shot. Those days ended long ago, but there is probably some residue feeling that Lebron doesn't like to shoot in the clutch.

Beyond that, some people still believe that the superstar on the team should always be the one to take the key shot. They think that shooting is the only "clutch' action that matters and tend to dismiss clutch passes, rebounds and defense.

Also, Lebron is unique among GOAT level players in that he is both a scorer and a facilitator. Often than Magic, most of the GOAT level guys are shoot-first scorers who are more likely to lock onto the basket than pass to a teammate who has a better shot.

Finally, bashing Lebron, whether he deserves it or not, is one of the NBA's great spectator sports.



he definitely made the right play, thats why the cavs won. Great play, great play.

/s
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject:

Good pass, Korver just needs to make that shot.

On a side note, that 3 Durant took was very gutsy. If he missed everyone would've been talking about how boneheaded he was. Instead, we're talking about Lebron because his teammate missed a shot.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Analysis: the criticism of Lebron passing to Korver at the end of G3 is ridiculous

marga86 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
joeblow wrote:

With that said, I believe in objectivity and am shocked at how many critics and professional NBA analysts are slamming Lebron for passing the ball to Korver near the end of game three. He absolutely made the correct decision. ?


Early in his career, there were times that Lebron was hesitant to take a key shot. Those days ended long ago, but there is probably some residue feeling that Lebron doesn't like to shoot in the clutch.

Beyond that, some people still believe that the superstar on the team should always be the one to take the key shot. They think that shooting is the only "clutch' action that matters and tend to dismiss clutch passes, rebounds and defense.

Also, Lebron is unique among GOAT level players in that he is both a scorer and a facilitator. Often than Magic, most of the GOAT level guys are shoot-first scorers who are more likely to lock onto the basket than pass to a teammate who has a better shot.

Finally, bashing Lebron, whether he deserves it or not, is one of the NBA's great spectator sports.



he definitely made the right play, thats why the cavs won. Great play, great play.

/s



Silly, silly boy. You can make the right play and lose, and make the wrong play and win. Over time, you'll win more by making the right play. But you know that, silly, silly boy.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject:

Option 2 he could have forced his way into getting free throws
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject:

If Korver makes that shot, Lebron is lauded as the greatest passer since Magic Johnson, making everyone on the court better. If Lebron scores in that situation, Lebron will be lauded as the greatest force since Michael Jordan, carrying his team to victory. And if Lebron misses or passes the ball away, he is a choke artist and someone who shrinks in big game, clutch situations.

Big deal, the hyperbolic hype is now woven in the fabric of the NBA, especially the Finals. I don't see why anyone should be upset or surprised, one way or the other.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!


Go look at the stat sheet and look at the contributions of his teammates other than Kyrie in game 3. Lebron can't do everything by himself. Nobody compared him to Kobe or MJ in this. You can't win games if other players who were supposedly "all-stars" at one point in their career give absolutely minimal contribution to the team. The Warriors throughout this series have played better team ball and have a much more evenly distributed contributions because of the overall talent is above that of the Cavs. You can't question that. The Warriors were the favorites to win it all, nobody is disputing that.
Not sure how much basketball you even watch, but its clear this series is more than just one play that determines the W or L. The Warriors have done that. The Cavs, well they have stretches where they have zero offense and others where they get hot. So don't give me this BS excuse that it was one play that lost them that game. It was a series of boneheaded possessions that got them the L.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

!



I think Lebron has a great team around him. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

They're simply not in a class with the Warriors. No one is right now.

The Warriors have two recent MVPs, two more all-NBA players; were #1 in the league in offense and #2 in defense, won 67 games, and have gone 15-0 in the playoffs.

I think the Warriors will go down as one of the best teams in NBA history.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject:

Seems like whoever is trying to challenge the Warriors are thinking of picking enough firepower to outscore them....
I think that would be the wrong approach, not to mention it would be very hard to do considering the level of offensive players would put any team way over the cap.
Any team might have to do what the Pistons did in the past. Get players that play great team defense. You won't be able to outscore the Warriors, but if you get players that ugly it up and make them work for every single offensive possession you might be able to have a fighting chance at winning games. Keep the Warriors out of their offensive element.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!


Are you sure about that?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

El BJ brought that type of criticism on himself with all his self-hype and arrogance.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

encina1 wrote:
marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!


Are you sure about that?

That was the first thing I thought of, and this was the second. In the end, just simply make the right play and live with the results.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Option 2 he could have forced his way into getting free throws

Nope. It's the end of the game and the refs prefer to swallow their whistles. 'Bron is also going against the defensive player of the year who is moving his feet to take away a drive to James' right because the help is on the weak side.

Throwing up a shot in the paint by driving left against Green AND Durant makes no sense either, especially when Korver is in his sweet spot (left corner three) with Curry guarding him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!


Go look at the stat sheet and look at the contributions of his teammates other than Kyrie in game 3. Lebron can't do everything by himself. Nobody compared him to Kobe or MJ in this. You can't win games if other players who were supposedly "all-stars" at one point in their career give absolutely minimal contribution to the team. The Warriors throughout this series have played better team ball and have a much more evenly distributed contributions because of the overall talent is above that of the Cavs. You can't question that. The Warriors were the favorites to win it all, nobody is disputing that.
Not sure how much basketball you even watch, but its clear this series is more than just one play that determines the W or L. The Warriors have done that. The Cavs, well they have stretches where they have zero offense and others where they get hot. So don't give me this BS excuse that it was one play that lost them that game. It was a series of boneheaded possessions that got them the L.


I've seen how polar opposite performances in the 1st and 2nd half.

He dug this hole for himself. All i'm saying is people need to pick a script.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

They lost the game long before that shot.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
encina1 wrote:
marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!


Are you sure about that?

That was the first thing I thought of, and this was the second. In the end, just simply make the right play and live with the results.


I knew people would bring that one up.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Option 2 he could have forced his way into getting free throws

Nope. It's the end of the game and the refs prefer to swallow their whistles. 'Bron is also going against the defensive player of the year who is moving his feet to take away a drive to James' right because the help is on the weak side.

Throwing up a shot in the paint by driving left against Green AND Durant makes no sense either, especially when Korver is in his sweet spot (left corner three) with Curry guarding him.


He coulda taken 6 steps and not get called for a travel like usual.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject:

marga86 wrote:
joeblow wrote:
encina1 wrote:
marga86 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Easy to pile on Lebron, but look at the teammates who didn't show up.
Deron, Love, Tristan, theres plenty of blame to go around.


It's also SUPER easy to defend him by claiming he has no help.

Game one was a SMASH and no one seems to think that 15pts 21 rebs from Love in that game was a contribution, or the 24pts from Kyrie existed. They also forget that although his teammates had bad games.. so did he.

Game two, love had a great game, actually had a better +/- than lebron and scored 27pts on some efficient shooting. Kyrie had a good pts, but a bad shooting night.

Game 3, Kyrie had a great game, JR had a very formidable game.. still lost.


Yea cool, not taking that shot was "wise"... but let me ask you a rhetorical question... Would kobe have taken that shot? Would MJ have taken it? AND who would YOU want to take it? In my opinion, there is no way kobe or MJ would pass up an opportunity to take that shot..


It's easy to sit and hide behind lebrons overall stats, but people ignore (bleep) awful 2nd half play, his awful defense on Durant (40 seconds left, GSW won 2, tell me what happens).. AND most importantly, the lack of performance for the cavs is coming from the bench.. and the guy that HE lobbied to get that ridiculous contract.


Stop giving him passes; i constantly hear... "lebron makes the players around im better!!!", but when they lose, these same people throw those players under the bus! Pick a narrative, he either makes them better or he doesn't!


Are you sure about that?

That was the first thing I thought of, and this was the second. In the end, just simply make the right play and live with the results.


I knew people would bring that one up.


That's the one we all remember. Thought that Paxson got one too in '93, but it was just a set Phil called the Blind Pig in which all players touched the ball - Jordan inbound to BJ to Jordan to Pippen to Grant to Paxson FTW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnAr4I3-Z48
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
El BJ brought that type of criticism on himself with all his self-hype and arrogance.




The actual play in this case was the right one, but the criticism is part of the overall package when you are the self-proclaimed chosen one.
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