LeBron: "I don't believe I've played for a superteam"
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Krispy Kreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The Heat were a super team, the Cavs were not.



Ok, let's break it down. Your argument is that Wade/Bosh were noticeably better than Love/Irving, therefore Miami had a super team. And the Cavs did not.

Wade the year before Lebron arrived: 26/5/6

Bosh the year before Lebron arrived: 24/11/2

Irving the year before Lebron arrived: 21/4/6

Love the year before Lebron arrived: 26/12/4


Wade's #s are better than Irving. Love's #s are better than Bosh's.

As you can see, the numbers are similar. In terms of pure production:

Wade/Bosh: 50 PPG, 16 RPG, 8 APG

Irving/Love: 47 PPG, 16 RPG, 10 APG


Pretty much a tossup. Slight edge in points to Wade/Bosh. Slight edge in assists to Irving/Love.

All 4 players were the franchise players for their respective squads before playing with Lebron.

The numbers are a wash. All were franchise players. You may have a slight preference, but that's just a matter of opinion. The point is, from a numbers and franchise perspective, Lebron had very similar players in both cases. Oh yeah, all 4 players were either in their primes, or entering them.

Both were super teams.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject:

Lebron for 3.5 quarters is probably the best.

But when it's "onions" time and you need to close out the game, I want the MJs/Kobe/Magic/Birds over Lebron. It's not a coincidence that some of the most memorable winning time moments with Lebron is Ray Allen hitting a career defining 3 for LBJ, or Kyrie hitting the game winner in the Finals.
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2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Heat were a super team, the Cavs were not.



Ok, let's break it down. Your argument is that Wade/Bosh were noticeably better than Love/Irving, therefore Miami had a super team. And the Cavs did not.

Wade the year before Lebron arrived: 26/5/6

Bosh the year before Lebron arrived: 24/11/2

Irving the year before Lebron arrived: 21/4/6

Love the year before Lebron arrived: 26/12/4


Wade's #s are better than Irving. Love's #s are better than Bosh's.

As you can see, the numbers are similar. In terms of pure production:

Wade/Bosh: 50 PPG, 16 RPG, 8 APG

Irving/Love: 47 PPG, 16 RPG, 10 APG


Pretty much a tossup. Slight edge in points to Wade/Bosh. Slight edge in assists to Irving/Love.

All 4 players were the franchise players for their respective squads before playing with Lebron.

The numbers are a wash. All were franchise players. You may have a slight preference, but that's just a matter of opinion. The point is, from a numbers and franchise perspective, Lebron had very similar players in both cases. Oh yeah, all 4 players were either in their primes, or entering them.

Both were super teams.

seriously.
it's not the team, it's lebron. he has to admit that if he wants his haters to chill a little. All these guys he has played with, i would say, are more skilled players than he. lebron has one truly great strength: hype. he is a hype machine, and he has the ability to bring high-powered stars with him. it's not his skill. he focuses on rebounding, assists (in the simplest possible way) to justify his hype as much as possible. he wants triple doubles because it only requires 10 points...whereas a great scorer can drop 40, which would often be difficult for him to do...so he focuses on the easier tasks of rebounding and assisting his highly skilled teammates.

this is the ONLY reason why, as disgusting as it sounds, Laker fans would want lebron on the team. Otherwise, he would get exposed like the limited dwight was when he was here. Lebron would bring the 2-3 other stars teams now would need to beat the warriors. but with the laker spotlight, he like dwight, would get exposed on some level. i figure he'd have to somehow not be the primary playmaker more often than he does on the cavs...where he turns the playmaking duties over to kyrie when it really matters. he'd have to do that more. but then what? he'd focus on just rebounding and defense? i don't know.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Pretty much a tossup. Slight edge in points to Wade/Bosh. Slight edge in assists to Irving/Love.

All 4 players were the franchise players for their respective squads before playing with Lebron.

The numbers are a wash. All were franchise players. You may have a slight preference, but that's just a matter of opinion. The point is, from a numbers and franchise perspective, Lebron had very similar players in both cases. Oh yeah, all 4 players were either in their primes, or entering them.

Both were super teams.


I thought the Cavs weren't a superteam when Lebron joined because Love wasn't there yet. Cleveland traded Wiggins for Love a few months later.

That's an important detail since there were still rumors that GSW might trade Klay for Love. Or that some other team might swoop in with a better package for Love. So Lebron was taking some risk since the Cavs had Kyrie and a highly touted, but unproven, rookie. And that by itself, wasn't a superteam.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Heat were a super team, the Cavs were not.



Ok, let's break it down. Your argument is that Wade/Bosh were noticeably better than Love/Irving, therefore Miami had a super team. And the Cavs did not.

Wade the year before Lebron arrived: 26/5/6

Bosh the year before Lebron arrived: 24/11/2

Irving the year before Lebron arrived: 21/4/6

Love the year before Lebron arrived: 26/12/4


Wade's #s are better than Irving. Love's #s are better than Bosh's.

As you can see, the numbers are similar. In terms of pure production:

Wade/Bosh: 50 PPG, 16 RPG, 8 APG

Irving/Love: 47 PPG, 16 RPG, 10 APG


Pretty much a tossup. Slight edge in points to Wade/Bosh. Slight edge in assists to Irving/Love.

All 4 players were the franchise players for their respective squads before playing with Lebron.

The numbers are a wash. All were franchise players. You may have a slight preference, but that's just a matter of opinion. The point is, from a numbers and franchise perspective, Lebron had very similar players in both cases. Oh yeah, all 4 players were either in their primes, or entering them.

Both were super teams.

seriously.
it's not the team, it's lebron. he has to admit that if he wants his haters to chill a little. All these guys he has played with, i would say, are more skilled players than he. lebron has one truly great strength: hype. he is a hype machine, and he has the ability to bring high-powered stars with him. it's not his skill. he focuses on rebounding, assists (in the simplest possible way) to justify his hype as much as possible. he wants triple doubles because it only requires 10 points...whereas a great scorer can drop 40, which would often be difficult for him to do...so he focuses on the easier tasks of rebounding and assisting his highly skilled teammates.

this is the ONLY reason why, as disgusting as it sounds, Laker fans would want lebron on the team. Otherwise, he would get exposed like the limited dwight was when he was here. Lebron would bring the 2-3 other stars teams now would need to beat the warriors. but with the laker spotlight, he like dwight, would get exposed on some level. i figure he'd have to somehow not be the primary playmaker more often than he does on the cavs...where he turns the playmaking duties over to kyrie when it really matters. he'd have to do that more. but then what? he'd focus on just rebounding and defense? i don't know.


C'mon man. Even Steve Kerr admits that Lebron is the greatest player on Earth right now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject:

composite wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
Pretty much a tossup. Slight edge in points to Wade/Bosh. Slight edge in assists to Irving/Love.

All 4 players were the franchise players for their respective squads before playing with Lebron.

The numbers are a wash. All were franchise players. You may have a slight preference, but that's just a matter of opinion. The point is, from a numbers and franchise perspective, Lebron had very similar players in both cases. Oh yeah, all 4 players were either in their primes, or entering them.

Both were super teams.


I thought the Cavs weren't a superteam when Lebron joined because Love wasn't there yet. Cleveland traded Wiggins for Love a few months later.

That's an important detail since there were still rumors that GSW might trade Klay for Love. Or that some other team might swoop in with a better package for Love. So Lebron was taking some risk since the Cavs had Kyrie and a highly touted, but unproven, rookie. And that by itself, wasn't a superteam.


I think most people believe that Lebron had an agreement with the Cavs that he'd join as long as they were able to get Love as well. When Lebron signed, there was no guarantee that the Cavs were going to get Love, but Lebron knew that the FO was going to do everything in their power to make it happen.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:

I think Lebron works better if he plays with another bona fide star but then is surrounded by role players.

So for example, if Kevin Love was broken into Crowder/Smart/draft pick, I think the team would be better. He is about having the "big names" and the one that gets somewhat shafted is the 3rd "big name."

If the Cavs could trade Love for something like the Boston package above, or to a team that is full of mid-priced role players, I think the team may be better. Cavs issue is depth, and the depth they can afford is often older.
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2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

This guy just compared himself building a super team to Lakers adding 39yr old Malone and 35yr old GP...
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject:

My argument wasn't who was there when he joined, or whatever.

It was that he was part of a super team with the Heat AND the Cavs.

And in terms of the pure production and the level of the players, their age, etc he was on 2 super teams.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

He needs to stop joining teams with just "superstars." He will need more depth at the wing positions as he ages. The top heavy teams are no longer sustainable for him.
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-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
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2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
This guy just compared himself building a super team to Lakers adding 39yr old Malone and 35yr old GP...


Yeah. He's really reaching. Why? Because he's insecure and VERY aware about his "legacy". He wants to do as much shaping/molding of his legacy as possible. Especially in defeat.

Guys like MJ and Kobe didn't do this much talking. They just went out there and let their play do the talking.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think Lebron works better if he plays with another bona fide star but then is surrounded by role players.

So for example, if Kevin Love was broken into Crowder/Smart/draft pick, I think the team would be better. He is about having the "big names" and the one that gets somewhat shafted is the 3rd "big name."

If the Cavs could trade Love for something like the Boston package above, or to a team that is full of mid-priced role players, I think the team may be better. Cavs issue is depth, and the depth they can afford is often older.


I agree. The notion of "superstars" is overrated. Look at MJ's Bulls or Kobe's Lakers. They really had only 2 superstars on each team and the rest were just relegated as great role players. There's only 1 basketball. You need guys like Rodman who never got individual accolades with the Bulls, but was a bigger contribution then the third best player with most championship clubs.

Personally, I think that's why "superstars", especially the 3rd "star" have their productivity numbers drop when they join a superteam.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject:

I wonder how the Lebronosexuals in the media will spin this to make him look good, or at least make him look like a "victim".
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
composite wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
Pretty much a tossup. Slight edge in points to Wade/Bosh. Slight edge in assists to Irving/Love.

All 4 players were the franchise players for their respective squads before playing with Lebron.

The numbers are a wash. All were franchise players. You may have a slight preference, but that's just a matter of opinion. The point is, from a numbers and franchise perspective, Lebron had very similar players in both cases. Oh yeah, all 4 players were either in their primes, or entering them.

Both were super teams.


I thought the Cavs weren't a superteam when Lebron joined because Love wasn't there yet. Cleveland traded Wiggins for Love a few months later.

That's an important detail since there were still rumors that GSW might trade Klay for Love. Or that some other team might swoop in with a better package for Love. So Lebron was taking some risk since the Cavs had Kyrie and a highly touted, but unproven, rookie. And that by itself, wasn't a superteam.


I think most people believe that Lebron had an agreement with the Cavs that he'd join as long as they were able to get Love as well. When Lebron signed, there was no guarantee that the Cavs were going to get Love, but Lebron knew that the FO was going to do everything in their power to make it happen.


Even if that were true, what if GSW sweetened the deal and Minny took it? there's only so much within his control
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject:

composite wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think Lebron works better if he plays with another bona fide star but then is surrounded by role players.

So for example, if Kevin Love was broken into Crowder/Smart/draft pick, I think the team would be better. He is about having the "big names" and the one that gets somewhat shafted is the 3rd "big name."

If the Cavs could trade Love for something like the Boston package above, or to a team that is full of mid-priced role players, I think the team may be better. Cavs issue is depth, and the depth they can afford is often older.


I agree. The notion of "superstars" is overrated. Look at MJ's Bulls or Kobe's Lakers. They really had only 2 superstars on each team and the rest were just relegated as great role players. There's only 1 basketball. You need guys like Rodman who never got individual accolades with the Bulls, but was a bigger contribution then the third best player with most championship clubs.

Personally, I think that's why "superstars", especially the 3rd "star" have their productivity numbers drop when they join a superteam.


you think Pau Gasol was a superstar?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
composite wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think Lebron works better if he plays with another bona fide star but then is surrounded by role players.

So for example, if Kevin Love was broken into Crowder/Smart/draft pick, I think the team would be better. He is about having the "big names" and the one that gets somewhat shafted is the 3rd "big name."

If the Cavs could trade Love for something like the Boston package above, or to a team that is full of mid-priced role players, I think the team may be better. Cavs issue is depth, and the depth they can afford is often older.


I agree. The notion of "superstars" is overrated. Look at MJ's Bulls or Kobe's Lakers. They really had only 2 superstars on each team and the rest were just relegated as great role players. There's only 1 basketball. You need guys like Rodman who never got individual accolades with the Bulls, but was a bigger contribution then the third best player with most championship clubs.

Personally, I think that's why "superstars", especially the 3rd "star" have their productivity numbers drop when they join a superteam.


you think Pau Gasol was a superstar?


Absolutely. He was incredible in Game 7, '10 Finals. If there were an MVP for a G7, he'd have won it. And, an underrated superstar too. Plus, in '07 big men were more important than they are now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject:

composite wrote:
governator wrote:
composite wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think Lebron works better if he plays with another bona fide star but then is surrounded by role players.

So for example, if Kevin Love was broken into Crowder/Smart/draft pick, I think the team would be better. He is about having the "big names" and the one that gets somewhat shafted is the 3rd "big name."

If the Cavs could trade Love for something like the Boston package above, or to a team that is full of mid-priced role players, I think the team may be better. Cavs issue is depth, and the depth they can afford is often older.


I agree. The notion of "superstars" is overrated. Look at MJ's Bulls or Kobe's Lakers. They really had only 2 superstars on each team and the rest were just relegated as great role players. There's only 1 basketball. You need guys like Rodman who never got individual accolades with the Bulls, but was a bigger contribution then the third best player with most championship clubs.

Personally, I think that's why "superstars", especially the 3rd "star" have their productivity numbers drop when they join a superteam.


you think Pau Gasol was a superstar?


Absolutely. He was incredible in Game 7, '10 Finals. If there were an MVP for a G7, he'd have won it. And, an underrated superstar too. Plus, in '07 big men were more important than they are now.

Kobe made regular or even non existent player like Smush Parker a starter. Remember 2006 Lakers that forced number one team in the West to 7 games in the playoffs. Smush, Kwame, and George Bush forcing Nash and the high scoring Suns to 7th game and if not for Thomas's painful three pointer were eliminated by Smush Parker?

Paul Gasol's best years were with the Mamba. It was not a coincidence. If Smush Parker was elevated to a starting point guard, Kobe made Paul Gasol look like a superstar.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject:

Put it this way. If Lebron was playing with Pau and won back to back chips... they would be saying how great Lebron made Pau. The story would definitely not be that Pau is a Superstar.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject:

Kobe turned Pau into a winner
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject:

I'm curious now how Kobe's teammates stats with vs without Kobe compared to LeBron's
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
I'm curious now how Kobe's teammates stats with vs without Kobe compared to LeBron's


LG's incomparable J.C. Smith made a brilliant post with stat comparison in 2007 or so in regards to their respective teammates. The narrative around both was an outright GD LIE at the time. Almost every single one of Kobe's teammates in that period had career years around him in terms of either efficiency or counting stats or both and the reverse was true of Bron.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
governator wrote:
I'm curious now how Kobe's teammates stats with vs without Kobe compared to LeBron's


LG's incomparable J.C. Smith made a brilliant post with stat comparison in 2007 or so in regards to their respective teammates. The narrative around both was an outright GD LIE at the time. Almost every single one of Kobe's teammates in that period had career years around him in terms of either efficiency or counting stats or both and the reverse was true of Bron.

with Kobe putting up crazy numbers himself. go figure.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
The Grind wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Funny how people say lebron makes teammates better but when all stars join him those players suddenly supposedly suck


yea this is an oft overlooked point. all these great guys (for you stat heads), their stats go down when they join him (and his go up of course). Yet a guy like kobe, who supposedly is selfish and doesnt make people better or only did later in his career...during those bad years, all those bad players had their best numbers playing with him.

kyrie is a phenomally gifted player, probably should have the hype of curry or similar. but he wont because his hype and accolades will be mostly attributed to lebron. Kyrie gets a simple pass from lebron, proceeds to juke the living hell out of the entire defense, makes an impossible layup among the warriors bigs, and the announcers go off about how genius lebron's pass was.

Before Lebron got there, didn't people see how great Kyrie could be? I hardly watched him but knew he was a special talent his first two years in what little I did see. He's amazing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject:

focus wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
The Grind wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Funny how people say lebron makes teammates better but when all stars join him those players suddenly supposedly suck


yea this is an oft overlooked point. all these great guys (for you stat heads), their stats go down when they join him (and his go up of course). Yet a guy like kobe, who supposedly is selfish and doesnt make people better or only did later in his career...during those bad years, all those bad players had their best numbers playing with him.

kyrie is a phenomally gifted player, probably should have the hype of curry or similar. but he wont because his hype and accolades will be mostly attributed to lebron. Kyrie gets a simple pass from lebron, proceeds to juke the living hell out of the entire defense, makes an impossible layup among the warriors bigs, and the announcers go off about how genius lebron's pass was.

Before Lebron got there, didn't people see how great Kyrie could be? I hardly watched him but knew he was a special talent his first two years in what little I did see. He's amazing.

i think everyone noticed, including lebron. same with love. and once they teamed up, now it's all about lebron, and they're just role players, or something like that.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
focus wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
The Grind wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Funny how people say lebron makes teammates better but when all stars join him those players suddenly supposedly suck


yea this is an oft overlooked point. all these great guys (for you stat heads), their stats go down when they join him (and his go up of course). Yet a guy like kobe, who supposedly is selfish and doesnt make people better or only did later in his career...during those bad years, all those bad players had their best numbers playing with him.

kyrie is a phenomally gifted player, probably should have the hype of curry or similar. but he wont because his hype and accolades will be mostly attributed to lebron. Kyrie gets a simple pass from lebron, proceeds to juke the living hell out of the entire defense, makes an impossible layup among the warriors bigs, and the announcers go off about how genius lebron's pass was.

Before Lebron got there, didn't people see how great Kyrie could be? I hardly watched him but knew he was a special talent his first two years in what little I did see. He's amazing.

i think everyone noticed, including lebron. same with love. and once they teamed up, now it's all about lebron, and they're just role players, or something like that.


Didn't Love have the first 30-30 game in like 30 years? Dude was a monster. Now he's a role player. Oh LeBron. GOAT.
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