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ksmgf Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5056
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38775
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wonder who will be the GM now?
Phil failed as a GM. What will be do now? Ride off into the sunset?
I guess this means Porky will stay on the Knicks. Melo probably staying as well since it was a battle of wills between him and Pjax. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Bye Philecia. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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K2 Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 23529
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:03 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Wonder who will be the GM now?
Phil failed as a GM. What will be do now? Ride off into the sunset?
I guess this means Porky will stay on the Knicks. Melo probably staying as well since it was a battle of wills between him and Pjax. |
Dolan's out of his mind, so Isiah Thomas probably gets another whack at driving the Knicks further down Mariana trench.
Phil will eventually be back in LA, beach sandals and all, counting that buyout money.
First things first, back to Montana for some r&r and peyote.
Then another book. |
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Rek Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 2228 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Meh, the books write themselves. What else does Rosen have on his plate? |
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ksmgf Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5056
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:11 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Wonder who will be the GM now?
Phil failed as a GM. What will be do now? Ride off into the sunset?
I guess this means Porky will stay on the Knicks. Melo probably staying as well since it was a battle of wills between him and Pjax. |
If Dolan is smart he should give a call to David Griffin. |
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gumby Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2500 Location: Inland Empire
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Another bullet dodged!
Jeannie, don't get any dumb ideas here!
Bye. _________________ "This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Phil pushed it too far with the Porzingis trade talk.
I believe in Phil's methods but you can't try to trade Porzingis even if he skipped a meeting.
For Phil the win here is he gets 24M in guaranteed money for a paid vacation.
For 3 years of work Dolan will pay Phil $60 M. Highway robbery, as Phil didn't even do a good job.
Isiah, Larry Brown, Mike D'Antoni, Walsh, Phil Jackson. Doesn't matter what guy goes there. It just seems under Dolan everything goes horrible for them. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:22 am Post subject: |
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One thing that really came out about Phil in these last 3 years, his people skills suck. He really can not be a manager at a high position if he keeps the same people skills. He had a major conflict with Melo (which is ok because well everyone has one with him from Karl, D'Antoni, Phil was just the latest). Then he has conflict with Kristaps, and that to me was a big red flag. Too many changes in coaching, and again that's people skills again. Derek Fisher wasn't a bad coach for them, but he had bad communication with Phil, so Phil fired him. From a coaching perspective, there wasn't much of a reason to fire Fisher last year when he did. Knicks team was doing well at that point. He replaced him with Hornachek/Rambis only because Rambis/Hornachek were more yes men, or he had better communication with them. Again, people skills.
I think Phil did great for NY from the draft perspective. Years from now Knicks fans will look back and see that Phil was better than many of the other GM's they have had. He didn't trade their picks, he valued their draft picks and got them some players now with Kristaps, Hernangomez (who I think made first team all rookie) and now drafted that unknown but high potential french kid Ntilikina (Has a 7 foot wingspan, athletic PG). Years from now they'll see that he meant well especially with the draft.
But man, his people skills just sucked. He is not cut out for being a head of FO with those kind of people skills. Always knew he was an ass, arrogrant etc. Still. This really was pretty bad for him that he just couldn't keep his mouth or be more professional at times. He couldn't resist doing what he did as a coach in terms of mind games, shots in the press, talking through Rosen etc.
At most, he should consider working as an consultant and looking at draft picks. He's done really well for NY in that regard and I think that's the only FO role he was good at. He should stay away from being the guy in front of the press and dealing with coaches and players directly and more the guy that observes what players to draft, He knows talent.
Dolan though, IMO, remains the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who was there the last 15 years. Always the same ending. Isiah Thomas. Larry Brown. Mike D'Antoni. Donnis Walsh. Phil Jackson. Lots of HOF names there. Some of those names have had great success elsehwere but just not in NY. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29280 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:25 am Post subject: |
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When it came to Jim and Phil. I always figured one would succeed and one would fail. Never considered both could fail.
I do remember Phil was hired within a year after Jim. And now they are fired within the same year. I guess you could call is kismet. Everybody talks about how many more chips Shaq and Kobe could've won if they valued each other and got along. I have a similar question in regards to our past front office. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53790
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:47 am Post subject: |
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It was never going to work and it didn't. The Knick fans deserve much better and I hope they get it. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Knicks fans are worried the replacement is gonna be even worse _________________ Kobe |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53790
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | Knicks fans are worried the replacement is gonna be even worse |
That would be difficult to achieve, but this is an encouraging report.
Knicks owner James Dolan is targeting Toronto's Masai Ujiri to replace Phil Jackson as N.Y.'s President, league sources tell @TheVertical. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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oldschool32 Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 20032
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:53 am Post subject: |
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If Dolan had any clue, he would have done this before the draft. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest |
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20,000 Retired Number
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 29999 Location: Likely nowhere near you
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:14 am Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | Chronicle wrote: | Knicks fans are worried the replacement is gonna be even worse |
That would be difficult to achieve, but this is an encouraging report.
Knicks owner James Dolan is targeting Toronto's Masai Ujiri to replace Phil Jackson as N.Y.'s President, league sources tell @TheVertical. |
Somehow that will be screwed up.
Too bad we couldn't get Phil to agree to a bad trade before he left. _________________ Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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numero-ocho Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18202 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:31 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't sure until all that Porzingis trade talk started going around but I believe Phil wanted to get fired. He didn't want to just quit and walk away from all that money. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53790
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:43 am Post subject: |
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numero-ocho wrote: | I wasn't sure until all that Porzingis trade talk started going around but I believe Phil wanted to get fired. He didn't want to just quit and walk away from all that money. |
Keep in mind that Dolan picked up his option on Phil two months ago. He could have gotten out of the money and better planned for the draft/FA. It seems Dolan was so obsessed with overcoming the criticism that he meddles in basketball ops too much that he stood by as Phil decimated the team. I'm sure Dolan is feeling like damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but that's sports ownership. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | One thing that really came out about Phil in these last 3 years, his people skills suck. He really can not be a manager at a high position if he keeps the same people skills. He had a major conflict with Melo (which is ok because well everyone has one with him from Karl, D'Antoni, Phil was just the latest). Then he has conflict with Kristaps, and that to me was a big red flag. Too many changes in coaching, and again that's people skills again. Derek Fisher wasn't a bad coach for them, but he had bad communication with Phil, so Phil fired him. From a coaching perspective, there wasn't much of a reason to fire Fisher last year when he did. Knicks team was doing well at that point. He replaced him with Hornachek/Rambis only because Rambis/Hornachek were more yes men, or he had better communication with them. Again, people skills.
I think Phil did great for NY from the draft perspective. Years from now Knicks fans will look back and see that Phil was better than many of the other GM's they have had. He didn't trade their picks, he valued their draft picks and got them some players now with Kristaps, Hernangomez (who I think made first team all rookie) and now drafted that unknown but high potential french kid Ntilikina (Has a 7 foot wingspan, athletic PG). Years from now they'll see that he meant well especially with the draft.
But man, his people skills just sucked. He is not cut out for being a head of FO with those kind of people skills. Always knew he was an ass, arrogrant etc. Still. This really was pretty bad for him that he just couldn't keep his mouth or be more professional at times. He couldn't resist doing what he did as a coach in terms of mind games, shots in the press, talking through Rosen etc.
At most, he should consider working as an consultant and looking at draft picks. He's done really well for NY in that regard and I think that's the only FO role he was good at. He should stay away from being the guy in front of the press and dealing with coaches and players directly and more the guy that observes what players to draft, He knows talent.
Dolan though, IMO, remains the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who was there the last 15 years. Always the same ending. Isiah Thomas. Larry Brown. Mike D'Antoni. Donnis Walsh. Phil Jackson. Lots of HOF names there. Some of those names have had great success elsehwere but just not in NY. |
Isiah Thomas and Phil Jackson should have been restricted to a specialist position of talent evaluation instead of being given control of basketball operations (or similar title). Dolan let other factions in the Knicks organization undercut D'Antoni and Walsh. I don't remember what the story was with Larry Brown.
In regards to some HOF names failing with the Knicks, they made the HOF for things other than being a FO executive. |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47580
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:04 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | One thing that really came out about Phil in these last 3 years, his people skills suck.
I think Phil did great for NY from the draft perspective. Years from now Knicks fans will look back and see that Phil was better than many of the other GM's they have had. He didn't trade their picks, he valued their draft picks and got them some players now with Kristaps, Hernangomez (who I think made first team all rookie) and now drafted that unknown but high potential french kid Ntilikina (Has a 7 foot wingspan, athletic PG). Years from now they'll see that he meant well especially with the draft.
But man, his people skills just sucked. He is not cut out for being a head of FO with those kind of people skills. Always knew he was an ass, arrogrant etc. Still. This really was pretty bad for him that he just couldn't keep his mouth or be more professional at times. He couldn't resist doing what he did as a coach in terms of mind games, shots in the press, talking through Rosen etc.
At most, he should consider working as an consultant and looking at draft picks. He's done really well for NY in that regard and I think that's the only FO role he was good at. He should stay away from being the guy in front of the press and dealing with coaches and players directly and more the guy that observes what players to draft, He knows talent.
Dolan though, IMO, remains the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who was there the last 15 years. Always the same ending. Isiah Thomas. Larry Brown. Mike D'Antoni. Donnis Walsh. Phil Jackson. Lots of HOF names there. Some of those names have had great success elsehwere but just not in NY. |
Great post Pac, I edited some of it to try and keep it shorter for the quote trains but I agree with you on Phil's lack of people skills.
What works to motivate players as a coach proved not to work well running things in a management role. I agree with you also on his drafting, pretty solid job there at least but failed to impact the team positively.
Dolan is a nightmare, much like Dean Spanos for the LA Faux Chargers, you can't win big with a dipwad as owner. At least I thought so until LeBron saved Comic Sans Gilbert.
But back to Jackson, for what he was being paid...just not nearly enough impact or positive press. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47580
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:06 am Post subject: |
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encina1 wrote: |
Too bad we couldn't get Phil to agree to a bad trade before he left. |
I like the way you are thinking! Let's prey on the weak GM's. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:07 am Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | numero-ocho wrote: | I wasn't sure until all that Porzingis trade talk started going around but I believe Phil wanted to get fired. He didn't want to just quit and walk away from all that money. |
Keep in mind that Dolan picked up his option on Phil two months ago. He could have gotten out of the money and better planned for the draft/FA. It seems Dolan was so obsessed with overcoming the criticism that he meddles in basketball ops too much that he stood by as Phil decimated the team. I'm sure Dolan is feeling like damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but that's sports ownership. |
To be fair, Phil didn't threaten to trade Pordzingis before his option was picked up. That seems to be the defining factor here. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53790
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Dolan reiterates, again, in his press release that he will not be involved in the operation of the team. Maybe sell it then? _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Phil pushed it too far with the Porzingis trade talk.
I believe in Phil's methods but you can't try to trade Porzingis even if he skipped a meeting.
For Phil the win here is he gets 24M in guaranteed money for a paid vacation.
For 3 years of work Dolan will pay Phil $60 M. Highway robbery, as Phil didn't even do a good job.
Isiah, Larry Brown, Mike D'Antoni, Walsh, Phil Jackson. Doesn't matter what guy goes there. It just seems under Dolan everything goes horrible for them. |
No you don't wolf and your second post proves that.
He made 2 good draft picks. Literally everything else he's done for them has been an absolute disaster. Heck one of my best friends is now a Laker fan as of a few weeks ago. Phil was his last straw as NYK fan |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | Wonder who will be the GM now?. |
Charles Oakley |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32752
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Well, FWIW at least there isn't a vacancy in the Lakers FO, not unless Jeanie creates a consulting position.
I loved Phil as HC, despite his shortcomings, but he is not who you want calling the shots from the FO. I actually wondered if Phil was playing the binary-decision game with Dolan the past few months: Either let me destroy this team so I can rebuild from scratch, or fire me. The Knicks are going nowhere with that roster, and they're cursed with ownership that has ADHD. |
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