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non-player zealot
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Tatum better pan out. He might be a new Bucks-era Vin Baker, but iono. If Magic n Rob traded down for 3rd to take Jayson Tatum, I'd be worried. Not saying he's destined to bust, but I think Jackson is the better pick at 3. A shot can be developed if the player is willing and gets good coaching. Jax is a hard working, smart kid. I think he's got a good chance, even though there are plenty of stand-out cases who never really did figure it out (Kidd to a large degree, Avery Johnson, Rondo, etc). BUT, recall that we all thought Trev Ariza was a hopeless shooter and he blossomed for us in a single year, popping huge playoff 3s. It's not unheard of. Maybe they were spooked by having Rondo who will retire a useless perimeter shooter. Defenders actually stepping backwards to entice him to shoot. He's a nasty punk, tho. Don't hope for anything good coming out of him.

I don't know about Tatum, though. I feel that Fultz is someone you don't pass up. You can conceptualize trading CWebb for Penny even though Orlando fans booed the sh out of Pat Williams when he announced it. That trade made sense. This one? I don't see it like Ainge does, especially on the heels of taking Jaylen Brown early last year. Jayson Tatum doesn't seem like the usual aggressive Celtic performer. I have to give them some profuse credit for being able to find and groom players who bust their asses every night, though. That's something we sure as hell didn't have the last few years full of mediocre kiddies who took a grabasstic on-court selfie. Maybe 2018 is the draft Ainge is banking on, but I don't think Markelle Fultz is Joe Barry Carrol and the Celtics didn't get a Robert Parish in this dead to go with the lower pick a la 1981. I'm sure that's the past move that resonates for Ainge since he lived it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Tatum better pan out. He might be a new Bucks-era Vin Baker, but iono. If Magic n Rob traded down for 3rd to take Jayson Tatum, I'd be worried. Not saying he's destined to bust, but I think Jackson is the better pick at 3. A shot can be developed if the player is willing and gets good coaching. Jax is a hard working, smart kid. I think he's got a good chance, even though there are plenty of stand-out cases who never really did figure it out (Kidd to a large degree, Avery Johnson, Rondo, etc). BUT, recall that we all thought Trev Ariza was a hopeless shooter and he blossomed for us in a single year, popping huge playoff 3s. It's not unheard of. Maybe they were spooked by having Rondo who will retire a useless perimeter shooter. Defenders actually stepping backwards to entice him to shoot. He's a nasty punk, tho. Don't hope for anything good coming out of him.

I don't know about Tatum, though. I feel that Fultz is someone you don't pass up. You can conceptualize trading CWebb for Penny even though Orlando fans booed the sh out of Pat Williams when he announced it. That trade made sense. This one? I don't see it like Ainge does, especially on the heels of taking Jaylen Brown early last year. Jayson Tatum doesn't seem like the usual aggressive Celtic performer. I have to give them some profuse credit for being able to find and groom players who bust their asses every night, though. That's something we sure as hell didn't have the last few years full of mediocre kiddies who took a grabasstic on-court selfie. Maybe 2018 is the draft Ainge is banking on, but I don't think Markelle Fultz is Joe Barry Carrol and the Celtics didn't get a Robert Parish in this dead to go with the lower pick a la 1981. I'm sure that's the past move that resonates for Ainge since he lived it.


Kidd is #8 in all-time three point field goals.

Josh Jackson has a record of domestic violence.
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject:

I don't really understand Ainge's rationale here. They already have Jae Crowder and Jaylen Brown (last year's #3 pick) at SF. Why trade down from Fultz just to get another player at a position you are already deep at?

The right move would have been signing Gordon Hayward and then trading the #1 pick for a Center.

Thomas
Bradley
Hayward
Horford
Gobert or DeAndre Jordan
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Tatum better pan out. He might be a new Bucks-era Vin Baker, but iono. If Magic n Rob traded down for 3rd to take Jayson Tatum, I'd be worried. Not saying he's destined to bust, but I think Jackson is the better pick at 3. A shot can be developed if the player is willing and gets good coaching. Jax is a hard working, smart kid. I think he's got a good chance, even though there are plenty of stand-out cases who never really did figure it out (Kidd to a large degree, Avery Johnson, Rondo, etc). BUT, recall that we all thought Trev Ariza was a hopeless shooter and he blossomed for us in a single year, popping huge playoff 3s. It's not unheard of. Maybe they were spooked by having Rondo who will retire a useless perimeter shooter. Defenders actually stepping backwards to entice him to shoot. He's a nasty punk, tho. Don't hope for anything good coming out of him.

I don't know about Tatum, though. I feel that Fultz is someone you don't pass up. You can conceptualize trading CWebb for Penny even though Orlando fans booed the sh out of Pat Williams when he announced it. That trade made sense. This one? I don't see it like Ainge does, especially on the heels of taking Jaylen Brown early last year. Jayson Tatum doesn't seem like the usual aggressive Celtic performer. I have to give them some profuse credit for being able to find and groom players who bust their asses every night, though. That's something we sure as hell didn't have the last few years full of mediocre kiddies who took a grabasstic on-court selfie. Maybe 2018 is the draft Ainge is banking on, but I don't think Markelle Fultz is Joe Barry Carrol and the Celtics didn't get a Robert Parish in this dead to go with the lower pick a la 1981. I'm sure that's the past move that resonates for Ainge since he lived it.

i thought tatum was a smart pick. he's taller/longer and there are already signs he can be a great shooter. fultz is short, but more polished, i can see a risk there. there are so many good to great 6'2-6'5 guys now, what's he really going to do to stand out? risk. i'd personally totally rather take the longer guy that can already shoot well. i look at it from "what does it take to beat the warriors" not just what does it take to be a good team. fultz is not going to be a warriors killer no matter how good he is, and i don't see any such signs anyway.

regarding developing a shot, here's my opinion on that. i do think players coming in who are not great shooters can develop a shot with hard work, training, dedication, etc. But the kind of shots they get good at are limited. mainly open threes, and open looks, nothing too adverse. we've seen guys like lebron and westbrook improve shooting in this sense. but we've never seen a guy who is a rookie bad shooter like lebron/westbrook become a great kobe/mj like reliable shot creator. by the time they're in the nba, they've been shooting ball for like 15 years...some things are hard to change. essentially (cynically) all these bad shooters do to get over the criticism is get smart about their shot selection. they learn not to take tough shots, and how to pass out of those situations. it's "smarter" and their percentage goes up....but their actual improvement in shooting still won't approach what the great shooters came into the league with. like the kidd example...yes, he improved his percentage, but he just made sure not to take anything other than wide open shots...forget the contested ones. of all these examples, i'd say westbrook's improvement is somewhat impressive, but the one i like better is tony parker who i feel had the most legit improvement.

ariza had a good year with the lakers, benefiting highly from being around kobe and that environment. since then, he has done ok compared to pre-laker ariza, but nothing that special.
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Dladi Vidac
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
I don't think Markelle Fultz is Joe Barely Cares and the Celtics didn't get a Robert Parish


Correct me if I'm wrong but is it true that robert parish was 81 years old in 1976 but the warriors drafted him anyway?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject:

Dladi Vidac wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
I don't think Markelle Fultz is Joe Barely Cares and the Celtics didn't get a Robert Parish


Correct me if I'm wrong but is it true that robert parish was 81 years old in 1976 but the warriors drafted him anyway?


Yes. He retired in 1996 at the age of 99, making him the oldest player to ever participate in a professional sport. He would've been 101 but he actually died in 1994 and no one ever told him. To his credit, he didn't let his condition stop him from fulfilling his contract, making further history by becoming the first deceased player to ever score a point. Not even Wilt could do that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Wake me up when Boston makes a move.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject:

Well, Tatum certainly did not bust. In fact he looks anything but a bust.
Got a feeling Ainge isn't gonna regret picking up that Lakers/Kings #1 and receiving Tatum as the "consolation" prize to allowing Fultz to go to Philly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject:

VegasLakerFan wrote:
Dladi Vidac wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
I don't think Markelle Fultz is Joe Barely Cares and the Celtics didn't get a Robert Parish


Correct me if I'm wrong but is it true that robert parish was 81 years old in 1976 but the warriors drafted him anyway?


Yes. He retired in 1996 at the age of 99, making him the oldest player to ever participate in a professional sport. He would've been 101 but he actually died in 1994 and no one ever told him. To his credit, he didn't let his condition stop him from fulfilling his contract, making further history by becoming the first deceased player to ever score a point. Not even Wilt could do that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject:

Shecky wrote:
Well, Tatum certainly did not bust. In fact he looks anything but a bust.
Got a feeling Ainge isn't gonna regret picking up that Lakers/Kings #1 and receiving Tatum as the "consolation" prize to allowing Fultz to go to Philly.

Agreed, it also seems that Boston will be finals bound within the next 2 years with LeBron leaving and the assets they keep accumulating. Then it only takes one injury for them to push past Golden State. Hell Lebron might decide to join them
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
Shecky wrote:
Well, Tatum certainly did not bust. In fact he looks anything but a bust.
Got a feeling Ainge isn't gonna regret picking up that Lakers/Kings #1 and receiving Tatum as the "consolation" prize to allowing Fultz to go to Philly.

Agreed, it also seems that Boston will be finals bound within the next 2 years with LeBron leaving and the assets they keep accumulating. Then it only takes one injury for them to push past Golden State. Hell Lebron might decide to join them


Maybe, but I'm not that impressed with the Celtics. They look good compared to most of the teams in the East, but not so good that they would just cruise to the ECF. But then, I regard Isaiah Thomas as fool's gold. If you think he's the real deal, I can see why you would be more impressed with the Celtics.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Raijin wrote:
Shecky wrote:
Well, Tatum certainly did not bust. In fact he looks anything but a bust.
Got a feeling Ainge isn't gonna regret picking up that Lakers/Kings #1 and receiving Tatum as the "consolation" prize to allowing Fultz to go to Philly.

Agreed, it also seems that Boston will be finals bound within the next 2 years with LeBron leaving and the assets they keep accumulating. Then it only takes one injury for them to push past Golden State. Hell Lebron might decide to join them


Maybe, but I'm not that impressed with the Celtics. They look good compared to most of the teams in the East, but not so good that they would just cruise to the ECF. But then, I regard Isaiah Thomas as fool's gold. If you think he's the real deal, I can see why you would be more impressed with the Celtics.


yea, I would have traded IT instead of Avery Bradley. Boston still need to upgrade their big from Horford too, not enough to contend
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject:

Couldn't the Celtics have traded the number one pick for George or D. Jordan and gotten help right-now rather than waiting on this years #3 pick to develop or hoping the Lakers suck next season to bank another high draft pick?

In picking up Hayward, they get a guy who averaged 24ppg who will displace Crowder's 14ppg for a net gain of +10ppg, but to clear cap space, they had to get rid of their second leading scorer (Bradly) who averaged 17ppg, making their net gain (actually a loss) at -7ppg...

No Team ever won a championship banking future draft picks, hope those picks keep Ainge all warm and fuzzy when he sleeps at night...!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject: Baker parallel ?

Not seeing much of a Vin Baker parallel. Skills and athleticism very different. Baker was much bigger, a more physical player, a more athletic player, largely an inside the paint specialist throughout his career. Tatum seems a one-on-one scoring specialist, with bags of jukes and twists, with range but mostly working from spots starting from at the mid-range.

I have no reason to project alcoholism on Tatum.
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