LeBron: "I don't believe I've played for a superteam"
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
fair enough. but when im talking "super teams" I'm talking about the top heavy talent. if any team to me has three different #1 options like the Cavs/Heat did, then I call them a super team. if other people don't, that's fine.


If I had to hazard a guess for the standard criteria, it would be:

A superteam needs to have at least three stars who could be franchise anchors (or just two, if they are super big stars); at least one of the stars needs to be acquired through a trade or free agency; and the team needs to be viewed as a serious contender.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
As I said before, Bosh, Wade, Kyrie, Love were all franchise players in their prime that teamed up with Lebron.


You lost me right there. Bosh, Kyrie, and Love were franchise players? I think not. None of them were top tier players when they joined Lebron. Irving and Love had never made the playoffs, and Bosh had played in a total of two playoff series.

I understand that discussions of Lebron tend to generate funny reactions, but let's keep some perspective here. Bosh, Irving, and Love were borderline all-stars before they joined Lebron. They put up good numbers on bad teams, but few people took them very seriously.



They were still franchise leaders. I didn't say they were winners. By franchise type players I mean superstars that are the #1 option on their respective teams. Yes, I agree with you that Love and Bosh put up big numbers on bad teams. Either way, they were still all-stars and not role players.


I would dispute the notion that Bosh, Love, or Irving have ever been superstars. Conversely, Thompson and possibly Green would be #1 options on bad teams. However, I don't want to belabor this. The point is that these discussions lend themselves to arbitrary designations. We used to see this all the time when people would act like Lebron's teammates on the '00s Cavs (Mo Williams, etc.) were such studs.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject:

Who the hell were Curry, Klay and DGreen before the draft?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
As I said before, Bosh, Wade, Kyrie, Love were all franchise players in their prime that teamed up with Lebron.


You lost me right there. Bosh, Kyrie, and Love were franchise players? I think not. None of them were top tier players when they joined Lebron. Irving and Love had never made the playoffs, and Bosh had played in a total of two playoff series.

I understand that discussions of Lebron tend to generate funny reactions, but let's keep some perspective here. Bosh, Irving, and Love were borderline all-stars before they joined Lebron. They put up good numbers on bad teams, but few people took them very seriously.



They were still franchise leaders. I didn't say they were winners. By franchise type players I mean superstars that are the #1 option on their respective teams. Yes, I agree with you that Love and Bosh put up big numbers on bad teams. Either way, they were still all-stars and not role players.


I would dispute the notion that Bosh, Love, or Irving have ever been superstars. Conversely, Thompson and possibly Green would be #1 options on bad teams. However, I don't want to belabor this. The point is that these discussions lend themselves to arbitrary designations. We used to see this all the time when people would act like Lebron's teammates on the '00s Cavs (Mo Williams, etc.) were such studs.


Absolutely not. Green's offensive game is erratic. he's a good all-around player, but a #1 option? a guy to take 20+ shots a game with his erratic offensive game? I don't see it. he plays well within a team concept. similar to a guy like lamar odom. Ultimate glue guy. Not a #1 option.

Klay, possibly.. but he's more of a #2 to me. I think he'd struggle getting consistent double teams as the #1 option. Yeah he can get hot. But his game isn't suited to be a #1 option. Same with Dray.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:

Absolutely not. Green's offensive game is erratic. he's a good all-around player, but a #1 option? a guy to take 20+ shots a game with his erratic offensive game? I don't see it. he plays well within a team concept. similar to a guy like lamar odom. Ultimate glue guy. Not a #1 option.

Klay, possibly.. but he's more of a #2 to me. I think he'd struggle getting consistent double teams as the #1 option. Yeah he can get hot. But his game isn't suited to be a #1 option. Same with Dray.



There are 30 teams in the league. If you had to redraft the entire league, there is no question to me that Klay would go in the first round and be some team's #1 offensive option. I wouldn't be surprised if Klay went in the top half of the first round.

Green would go in the top half of the first round too; so he would probably be sonme team's franchise player, if not it's #1 offensive option.

Kyrie would go in the first round too. Love probably the second round at this point.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject:

There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.


I don't buy the notion that any superstar wants the toughest competition. I think it's just the opposite. They want every advantage they can get
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

Yep. The superstars who have won titles will all flap their jaws to the media about how they would never do something like this. It's a load of BS. I sure don't remember Magic complaining about being drafted by a playoff team with a couple HOFers on the roster.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Yep. The superstars who have won titles will all flap their jaws to the media about how they would never do something like this. It's a load of BS. I sure don't remember Magic complaining about being drafted by a playoff team with a couple HOFers on the roster.


I also don't remember magic complaining that the Lakers signed a former MVP named Bob McAdoo as a backup, any more than Larry Bird complained when the Celtics signed former MVP Bill Walton as a backup
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
trablos wrote:
There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.


I don't buy the notion that any superstar wants the toughest competition. I think it's just the opposite. They want every advantage they can get


That's why KD whined about superteams thru twitter and then joined the warriors. And why Lebron joined Wade/Bosh but claimed he never played with a superteam.

The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

composite wrote:
The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.


I remember Duncan came close to leaving the Spurs to play with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady in Orlando. They flew him out on a private jet and wooed him for a couple of days. In the end, though, he liked the low-key style of San Antonio.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
composite wrote:
The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.


I remember Duncan came close to leaving the Spurs to play with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady in Orlando. They flew him out on a private jet and wooed him for a couple of days. In the end, though, he liked the low-key style of San Antonio.



Doc Rivers screwed that up. Something about not letting Duncan's wife stay with him on road trips.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
activeverb wrote:
composite wrote:
The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.


I remember Duncan came close to leaving the Spurs to play with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady in Orlando. They flew him out on a private jet and wooed him for a couple of days. In the end, though, he liked the low-key style of San Antonio.



Doc Rivers screwed that up. Something about not letting Duncan's wife stay with him on road trips.



It was Duncan's girlfriend (and later wife). She asked if she could occasionally join the team on flights and he said no.

No one is sure if that was the big deal, or the commotion or Orlando or the fact that San Antonio could offer more money.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

composite wrote:
activeverb wrote:
trablos wrote:
There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.


I don't buy the notion that any superstar wants the toughest competition. I think it's just the opposite. They want every advantage they can get


That's why KD whined about superteams thru twitter and then joined the warriors. And why Lebron joined Wade/Bosh but claimed he never played with a superteam.

The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.



I never thought Kobe had any intention of leaving. After playing under Shaq's shadow, he wanted to be the main man in Los Angeles. I think he just flirted with other teams to put pressure on the Lakers to trade Shaq. It was no coincidence he resigned with LA the day after they traded Shaq.

Plus, he already had three rings, and he was only 25, so he wasn't under intense pressure to get another ring immediately. He cared more about being the king of Los Angeles.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
composite wrote:
activeverb wrote:
trablos wrote:
There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.


I don't buy the notion that any superstar wants the toughest competition. I think it's just the opposite. They want every advantage they can get


That's why KD whined about superteams thru twitter and then joined the warriors. And why Lebron joined Wade/Bosh but claimed he never played with a superteam.

The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.



I never thought Kobe had any intention of leaving. After playing under Shaq's shadow, he wanted to be the main man in Los Angeles. I think he just flirted with other teams to put pressure on the Lakers to trade Shaq. It was no coincidence he resigned with LA the day after they traded Shaq.

Plus, he already had three rings, and he was only 25, so he wasn't under intense pressure to get another ring immediately. He cared more about being the king of Los Angeles.


He flirted with Denver but that's where the sexual assault trial happened so that was never a serious possibility. I thought the Clippers were a greater possibility. Especially in the days of Elton Brand, Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley where they had a decent team. I thought Kobe had a heart to heart talk with the Logo before ultimately deciding with the Lakers.

Of course, after 3 years he was so pissed, he demanded a trade himself. So that didn't last long. If it weren't for Bynum becoming an imposing force in '07 before his injury, Kobe may have kept demanding to be traded.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Yep. The superstars who have won titles will all flap their jaws to the media about how they would never do something like this. It's a load of BS. I sure don't remember Magic complaining about being drafted by a playoff team with a couple HOFers on the roster.


I also don't remember magic complaining that the Lakers signed a former MVP named Bob McAdoo as a backup, any more than Larry Bird complained when the Celtics signed former MVP Bill Walton as a backup


We forget Magic would of stayed at Michigan is Bull won the pick

http://es.pn/2bkSkFs

This Decision Was Beyond Coin Flip - latimes http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers via @latimes
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject:

composite wrote:
activeverb wrote:
composite wrote:
activeverb wrote:
trablos wrote:
There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.


I don't buy the notion that any superstar wants the toughest competition. I think it's just the opposite. They want every advantage they can get


That's why KD whined about superteams thru twitter and then joined the warriors. And why Lebron joined Wade/Bosh but claimed he never played with a superteam.

The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.



I never thought Kobe had any intention of leaving. After playing under Shaq's shadow, he wanted to be the main man in Los Angeles. I think he just flirted with other teams to put pressure on the Lakers to trade Shaq. It was no coincidence he resigned with LA the day after they traded Shaq.

Plus, he already had three rings, and he was only 25, so he wasn't under intense pressure to get another ring immediately. He cared more about being the king of Los Angeles.


He flirted with Denver but that's where the assault trial happened so that was never a serious possibility. I thought the Clippers were a greater possibility. Especially in the days of Elton Brand, Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley where they had a decent team. I thought Kobe had a heart to heart talk with the Logo before ultimately deciding with the Lakers.

Of course, after 3 years he was so pissed, he demanded a trade himself. So that didn't last long. If it weren't for Bynum becoming an imposing force in '07 before his injury, Kobe may have kept demanding to be traded.



Shaq left. That's why Kobe re-signed with us. Back then, Kobe tried to pretend that Shaq had nothing to do with it, how he didn't push him out, etc.

Many years later, he's finally admitted the truth.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
composite wrote:
activeverb wrote:
composite wrote:
activeverb wrote:
trablos wrote:
There have been super teams in every decade, 60's lakers/celts, 70's lakers, 80's lakers/celts/76ers, 90's bulls, 00's lakers/celts, etc...

We have seen HOF, let alone all stars play together all the time, I think what bothers people now is the collusion in getting these guys together like Lebron/wade/bosh and KD last year. Although I personally don't have a problem with it since it means they have winning as a top priority, I could never see kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic types stomaching that since they would want the toughest competition available.


I don't buy the notion that any superstar wants the toughest competition. I think it's just the opposite. They want every advantage they can get


That's why KD whined about superteams thru twitter and then joined the warriors. And why Lebron joined Wade/Bosh but claimed he never played with a superteam.

The only guy who I recalled didn't join a superteam when he had the chance was Kobe. I thought in '04, the Lakers were going to trade Shaq and they'be in tatters. Kobe never considered San Antonio but I thought they had enough cap space to take him. If he had joined Duncan, Parker and Manu all in their prime, that would have been an incredibly formidable team.



I never thought Kobe had any intention of leaving. After playing under Shaq's shadow, he wanted to be the main man in Los Angeles. I think he just flirted with other teams to put pressure on the Lakers to trade Shaq. It was no coincidence he resigned with LA the day after they traded Shaq.

Plus, he already had three rings, and he was only 25, so he wasn't under intense pressure to get another ring immediately. He cared more about being the king of Los Angeles.


He flirted with Denver but that's where the assault trial happened so that was never a serious possibility. I thought the Clippers were a greater possibility. Especially in the days of Elton Brand, Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley where they had a decent team. I thought Kobe had a heart to heart talk with the Logo before ultimately deciding with the Lakers.

Of course, after 3 years he was so pissed, he demanded a trade himself. So that didn't last long. If it weren't for Bynum becoming an imposing force in '07 before his injury, Kobe may have kept demanding to be traded.



Shaq left. That's why Kobe re-signed with us. Back then, Kobe tried to pretend that Shaq had nothing to do with it, how he didn't push him out, etc.

Many years later, he's finally admitted the truth.


I think you're right. The FA flirtations were all a sham. I think Kobe mostly wanted Shaq out, and then he wanted some plausible deniability that he was truly evaluating all his options.

What's a little shocking to me, is that the Lakers had complete faith that this was Kobe's objective and that once Shaq was gone, Kobe would stay. What if Kobe had a last minute change of heart and decided he'd rather bolt for greener pastures? Lakers would be screwed.
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