Did Shaq make Kobe better?
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Darth Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
Shaq couldn't close the deal with almost the identically architected team he had in Orlando. He got the same team in Los Angeles and the only difference was Kobe instead of Penny. .


I don't agree with your reasoning.

Shaq played with Hardaway for only three years -- Hardaway's rookie year when he wasn't anything special; the second year they made the finals; the third year they got beat by Jordan's 72-10 Bulls.

I wouldn't say that's an apples-to-apples comparison with the 8 years Kobe and Shaq spent together (not winning a ring til their fourth year).

Plus you are not factoring in the contribution of Phil Jackson, which I think was substantial to Shaq's improvement.

They both showed they could win without the other. But, like everyone else, they both needed talent around them (plus neither of them ever won a ring without one of the best coaches in NBA history running the team).

That said, I am not a fan of woulda-coulda-shouldsas -- especially of people who declare with absolute certainty how a hypothetical situation which can never be tested would have panned out. Replace Kobe with McGrady -- maybe the Lakers still threepeat, maybe they don't. I have no idea.


Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

But let's make sure we keep everything in perspective. Shaq was the unquestioned alpha along with being the 1st and 2nd option for Orlando. Penny was truly his sidekick while Anderson/Scott were ancillary pieces. Shaq led the Magic to the Finals and beat Jordan along the way. When Shaq had to own his man (Dream) in the Finals, he had no answer. This is where Penny should have dominated Jett/Cassell/Elie. It's what Kobe would have done, right?

From 2000-2002, there were so many playoff moments when Shaq was cooked and it took Kobe to not only bail him out but to literally transfer power from a focus on Shaq to the offense flowing through him. A lot of it was just a lack of dedication and leadership from Shaq which led to Kobe even being in a position to rival his place as the alpha on the team. I truly don't think Kobe cared about it until Shaq got jealous and Phil started with the bull shiggy.

If you want to know who made who better, just look at their careers...

As for McGrady... Come on bro... You can't be serious. McGrady had a stretch (offensively) where he was on par with Kobe. But overall, he had the same approach to basketball as Shaq did. A Shaq/McGrady pairing gets swept by the Spurs and Kings and definitely loses to Indiana in 2000.
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

Jesus Christ, please lock this thread. I thought we left the Shaq vs Kobe crap behind a long time ago. Neither are in the league anymore. They're both going to have their jersey retired, they're both going to have their statues put up, they're both going to the Hall of Fame. Let it go.
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hoopschick29
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Jesus Christ, please lock this thread. I thought we left the Shaq vs Kobe crap behind a long time ago. Neither are in the league anymore. They're both going to have their jersey retired, they're both going to have their statues put up, they're both going to the Hall of Fame. Let it go.


People still starting topics like this after all these years are just looking to lob grenades. Played out and pointless.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject:

Darth Los Angeles wrote:
When Shaq had to own his man (Dream) in the Finals, he had no answer. This is where Penny should have dominated Jett/Cassell/Elie. It's what Kobe would have done, right? .


Penny averaged 25-5-8 on 50/46/91 shooting.

As far as Shaq having to "own" Hakeem, that's just silly. Hakeem is one of the greatest players in NBA history. Shaq couldn't own him anymore than Hakeem could own Shaq. They both played great.

The Magic didn't lose because of Shaq and Penny. They lost because Nick Anderson gave away game 1 by missing 4 consecutive free throws, and then Houston role players hit some big shots in the end of other games.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject:

If you replace KObe with Tmac, lakers might have 3 Pete, but if you replace Shaq with Duncan, lakers would had the championship from 2002-2008
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#StayInYoLane
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject:

The addition of Slava Medvedenko really actually made kobe and shaq better.
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AceFresh
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
I think both made each other bitter.


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Darth Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
When Shaq had to own his man (Dream) in the Finals, he had no answer. This is where Penny should have dominated Jett/Cassell/Elie. It's what Kobe would have done, right? .


Penny averaged 25-5-8 on 50/46/91 shooting.

As far as Shaq having to "own" Hakeem, that's just silly. Hakeem is one of the greatest players in NBA history. Shaq couldn't own him anymore than Hakeem could own Shaq. They both played great.

The Magic didn't lose because of Shaq and Penny. They lost because Nick Anderson gave away game 1 by missing 4 consecutive free throws, and then Houston role players hit some big shots in the end of other games.


Well, that's funny because owning Shaq is EXACTLY what Dream did. Even Shaq would tell you this.

First, you insinuate Penny wasn't ready to support Shaq, then you change the narrative and say Penny wasn't an issue.

Which one is it?
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