How well do you think CP3/Harden will play together?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
If Durant and Curry are both injured during a series, they could beat the Warriors...


Rockets probably need Patrick Beverley for that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject:

I remember people got on Kobe Bryant's @$$ for his 2 year $48.5 mil extension...

But Harden's 4 year $228 mil extension is just ridiculous! He's going to make $47 mil in the final year of his deal! However, if Houston wants to tie up most of its money in a single player who good, but isn't even the best player league, so be it...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject:

AuraStar wrote:
I remember people got on Kobe Bryant's @$$ for his 2 year $48.5 mil extension...

But Harden's 4 year $228 mil extension is just ridiculous! He's going to make $47 mil in the final year of his deal! However, if Houston wants to tie up most of its money in a single player who good, but isn't even the best player league, so be it...


One player was well past his prime and one isn't. Any top 10 player under 30 is worth a full max.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject:

AuraStar wrote:
I remember people got on Kobe Bryant's @$$ for his 2 year $48.5 mil extension...

But Harden's 4 year $228 mil extension is just ridiculous! He's going to make $47 mil in the final year of his deal! However, if Houston wants to tie up most of its money in a single player who good, but isn't even the best player league, so be it...


That is what teams hoping to compete do, pay what it takes to keep your players. That is what Dr. Buss did. If this works out, the Rockets deal with Paul next offseason.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject:

AuraStar wrote:
I remember people got on Kobe Bryant's @$$ for his 2 year $48.5 mil extension...

But Harden's 4 year $228 mil extension is just ridiculous! He's going to make $47 mil in the final year of his deal! However, if Houston wants to tie up most of its money in a single player who good, but isn't even the best player league, so be it...


You do realise that the cap is almost double what it was then? and that kobe was mid 30's coming off a ruptured achilles?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

What has Kobe's extension to do with CP3s and Hardens Ego clashing at some point and MDA not being able to handle them?

The issue I see is that CP3 wants to win now (or yesteryear for that matter). Harden, I'm not sure if he knows himself what he wants. At some point this will become an issue. Maybe Hardens effort on defense will accelerate this issue. And MDAs ability to not handle these situations.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:

yeah, his mind set is different. he's a superstar now. he has his own brand. he wasn't as big on and off the court with OKC.


I'm referring to his mindset on sharing the basketball or adapting his game for the team. He was a superstar with a brand last summer when his coach asked him to switch from SG to PG. He's a current superstar with a brand and he still recruited another star PG to the team. Are you not aware that he was fine switching positions last year and recruited CP3 this year?

Krispy Kreme wrote:

let's make it interesting. what's your prediction? playoff seeding and then how far the rockets get.


I predict the Rockets will have the #3 seed and possibly make the WCF's. Those teams in GS and SA are pretty great too last I checked. Do you think the Rockets have more talent than either of those teams?



That's not even a real prediction. "Possibly the WCF".

What does that even mean? The bottom line is, if the Rockets end up not getting past the 2nd round, then CP3 helped them to do what? Not much more. You gotta improve with a power move like that, right? CP3 is a great player. So, adding a great player will still get you bounced in the 2nd round? But you got bounced even without this great player.

Looks like even you know that at best, the Rockets will improve slightly with CP3. Otherwise you'd predict a WCF berth.

Seems like we actually agree. That at the end of the day, the Rockets won't improve significantly with this move.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:

What does that even mean?


It means I expect us to have a top 3 seed and possible make the WCF's. If that needs further explanation....

Krispy Kreme wrote:

The bottom line is, if the Rockets end up not getting past the 2nd round, then CP3 helped them to do what?


I don't see how that logic applies. This year is not last year. It's possible for this team to be better than last years team and still lose to a better team in the playoffs. I highly doubt we would've lost to the Spurs without Leonard and Parker last year if CP3 were on the team. Is the team better with CP3, yes or no? If yes then you trade for him and smile about it.

Krispy Kreme wrote:

Seems like we actually agree. That at the end of the day, the Rockets won't improve significantly with this move.


If improve significantly = clearly being the best or 2nd best team in basketball, then yes, we agree.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:

What does that even mean?


It means I expect us to have a top 3 seed and possible make the WCF's. If that needs further explanation....

Krispy Kreme wrote:

The bottom line is, if the Rockets end up not getting past the 2nd round, then CP3 helped them to do what?


I don't see how that logic applies. This year is not last year. It's possible for this team to be better than last years team and still lose to a better team in the playoffs. I highly doubt we would've lost to the Spurs without Leonard and Parker last year if CP3 were on the team. Is the team better with CP3, yes or no? If yes then you trade for him and smile about it.

Krispy Kreme wrote:

Seems like we actually agree. That at the end of the day, the Rockets won't improve significantly with this move.


If improve significantly = clearly being the best or 2nd best team in basketball, then yes, we agree.



Then if you want to put a weak prediction of "Possibly the WCFs" then you're just chicken. But that's fine. Not surprised.

If the Rockets don't get out of the 2nd round, then CP3 didn't make a big impact like you were hoping. Same with Howard a few years back. Had 1 good year with Howard. Not sustained good play. Just like we all said Howard wouldn't work out long term, and it didn't.

But since 94'-95', you're used to disappointment, and this won't be any different.

But let's talk at the end of next year. If Houston is a serious contender in the WC, and they are better than OKC and the Spurs, then I'll admit I was wrong. Granted, you somewhat agree with my prediction. Weird. But that's on you.

My guess is, the Rockets won't be that much better next year, and then CP3 might leave Houston.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject:

^^^^ How did Howard not make a big impact when he helped the team get to its first conference finals in nearly two decades? Howard didn't have a championship impact. I don't recall anyone predicting that he would.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject:

He was a bust. You had him for 3 years. Didn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years. You had one lucky year. His numbers went down every year he was with Houston.

If the Rockets knew they would sign him and they wouldn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years, I doubt they'd sign him for the amount they did. Yeah they were "better" with him, but he didn't make a noticeable long term impact, which I'm SURE the organization wanted from him. And you can't debate that one, no matter how hard you try.

All that bull**** talk about Hakeem training him, how it was a new start for him, how him and james would play great together. and then at the end, howard said their communication wasn't good, to which harden agreed.

At best, it was a "so-so" signing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:

What does that even mean?


It means I expect us to have a top 3 seed and possible make the WCF's. If that needs further explanation....

Krispy Kreme wrote:

The bottom line is, if the Rockets end up not getting past the 2nd round, then CP3 helped them to do what?


I don't see how that logic applies. This year is not last year. It's possible for this team to be better than last years team and still lose to a better team in the playoffs. I highly doubt we would've lost to the Spurs without Leonard and Parker last year if CP3 were on the team. Is the team better with CP3, yes or no? If yes then you trade for him and smile about it.

Krispy Kreme wrote:

Seems like we actually agree. That at the end of the day, the Rockets won't improve significantly with this move.


If improve significantly = clearly being the best or 2nd best team in basketball, then yes, we agree.



Then if you want to put a weak prediction of "Possibly the WCFs" then you're just chicken. But that's fine. Not surprised.

If the Rockets don't get out of the 2nd round, then CP3 didn't make a big impact like you were hoping. Same with Howard a few years back. Had 1 good year with Howard. Not sustained good play. Just like we all said Howard wouldn't work out long term, and it didn't.

But since 94'-95', you're used to disappointment, and this won't be any different.

But let's talk at the end of next year. If Houston is a serious contender in the WC, and they are better than OKC and the Spurs, then I'll admit I was wrong. Granted, you somewhat agree with my prediction. Weird. But that's on you.

My guess is, the Rockets won't be that much better next year, and then CP3 might leave Houston.


Laying down the wood.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
He was a bust. You had him for 3 years. Didn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years. You had one lucky year. His numbers went down every year he was with Houston.

If the Rockets knew they would sign him and they wouldn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years, I doubt they'd sign him for the amount they did. Yeah they were "better" with him, but he didn't make a noticeable long term impact, which I'm SURE the organization wanted from him. And you can't debate that one, no matter how hard you try.

All that bull**** talk about Hakeem training him, how it was a new start for him, how him and james would play great together. and then at the end, howard said their communication wasn't good, to which harden agreed.

At best, it was a "so-so" signing.


Lol at one lucky year. "Hey, y'all sucked with him as long as I ignore the year you didn't".

The Rockets had Howard for 3 seasons and with him, made it further than they had in two decades. That's reality. Good spin attempt though. His tenure failed to produce a title but the team was clearly better for signing him.

And I'm quite sure the Rockets were expecting long term impact from a dude post back surgery.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I'm lost on why folks keep saying both aren't good off the ball.

1) The data disagrees. They both have great shooting numbers off the ball.

2) You rarely get to see #1 because neither has been playing next to a great playmaker in years, so it made no sense to take the ball out of their hands.

Harden played next to Westbrook and Durant. He will be fine giving the ball up for CP3. Who was he supposed to give it up to in prior Houston seasons? Lin? Beverly? Ariza? Parsons?



Just because Harden and CP3 are good or decent at spot up shooting, then it doesn't mean they will thrive off the ball, much less be happy with an off the ball role.

Harden was clearly a role player with the Thunder. He wasn't THE James Harden he is now. If you think he'd be happy with an off the ball role, you're dreaming (pun intended).

Both players haven't had a significant off the ball role in years. CP3 i don't think he ever has. Harden was back in 2012.. and even then, he loved handling the ball with the bench unit.

You can't compare Harden back to 2012. It's comical. He's a different player now, and his mind set is different.


His mindset isn't different at all. In OKC he was fine coming off the bench and playing with other stars. He just wanted his $$. He recruited CP3 here and has been asking to play off the ball more like he did in OKC. Again, he recruited him here. He has no issue sharing the ball (mindset).

Harden wasn't a role player in OKC. He was the 6th man of the year and made the Dream Team. He got traded and instantly avg 25 a night and took us to the playoffs without a great supporting cast. There was no growth period from leaving OKC to stardom in Houston. It was clear that he was just accepting a smaller role. Now he has improved since he got here, but nothing indicates that he would have a problem with a different role. Didn't he just switch positions last season? Didn't he recruit CP3?



yeah, his mind set is different. he's a superstar now. he has his own brand. he wasn't as big on and off the court with OKC.

he was more of a role player in OKC than he was with houston. point is, he wasn't a #1 option back then. he wasn't a superstar with OKC. he is now. Huge difference. Huge. so play with words all you like. doesn't help your weak argument.

let's make it interesting. what's your prediction? playoff seeding and then how far the rockets get.

anything less than a WCF spot will be a failure, as the rockets made it to the 2nd round last year. so expectation is that they will go farther with CP3, right?

so, go ahead. prediction?


I know you weren't asking me but there are 3 teams fairly tightly grouped 2-4 IMO: Houston, San Antonio, and the much improved (on paper anyway) Thunder. Could see any of those 3 defeat either of the others for 2nd seed and head to head ina playoff matchup, although I'd give the slight edge to Houston right now on seeding, and head to head vs OKC with a tossup vs the Spurs.


You put Houston and OKC above Cleveland?


Seeing as how it was about seeding and Cleveland doesn't play in the west and thus will not be seeded against Houston, I didn't put them above, I merely understood the question.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
He was a bust. You had him for 3 years. Didn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years. You had one lucky year. His numbers went down every year he was with Houston.

If the Rockets knew they would sign him and they wouldn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years, I doubt they'd sign him for the amount they did. Yeah they were "better" with him, but he didn't make a noticeable long term impact, which I'm SURE the organization wanted from him. And you can't debate that one, no matter how hard you try.

All that bull**** talk about Hakeem training him, how it was a new start for him, how him and james would play great together. and then at the end, howard said their communication wasn't good, to which harden agreed.

At best, it was a "so-so" signing.


Lol at one lucky year. "Hey, y'all sucked with him as long as I ignore the year you didn't".

The Rockets had Howard for 3 seasons and with him, made it further than they had in two decades. That's reality. Good spin attempt though. His tenure failed to produce a title but the team was clearly better for signing him.

And I'm quite sure the Rockets were expecting long term impact from a dude post back surgery.


It's not a spin attempt. He was brought in to play with Harden and make them WCF contenders for more than just one year. Instead, you had one lucky (yeah, lucky. don't like it, too bad) year and then at the end, Dwight and Harden were at odds and Dwight was frustrated with your boy Morey.

Yeah. Great signing. Bravo.

You had ONE good year with him. ONE. Say spin all you want, but the truth remains. He was a bust. If you don't want to accept it, then that's on you. The rest of it is just talk. Which you do a lot of, but don't get anywhere. Just like your team who hasn't won a ring in forever, and won't win a ring any time soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
He was a bust. You had him for 3 years. Didn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years. You had one lucky year. His numbers went down every year he was with Houston.

If the Rockets knew they would sign him and they wouldn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years, I doubt they'd sign him for the amount they did. Yeah they were "better" with him, but he didn't make a noticeable long term impact, which I'm SURE the organization wanted from him. And you can't debate that one, no matter how hard you try.

All that bull**** talk about Hakeem training him, how it was a new start for him, how him and james would play great together. and then at the end, howard said their communication wasn't good, to which harden agreed.

At best, it was a "so-so" signing.


Lol at one lucky year. "Hey, y'all sucked with him as long as I ignore the year you didn't".

The Rockets had Howard for 3 seasons and with him, made it further than they had in two decades. That's reality. Good spin attempt though. His tenure failed to produce a title but the team was clearly better for signing him.

And I'm quite sure the Rockets were expecting long term impact from a dude post back surgery.


It's not a spin attempt. He was brought in to play with Harden and make them WCF contenders for more than just one year. Instead, you had one lucky (yeah, lucky. don't like it, too bad) year and then at the end, Dwight and Harden were at odds and Dwight was frustrated with your boy Morey.

Yeah. Great signing. Bravo.

You had ONE good year with him. ONE. Say spin all you want, but the truth remains. He was a bust. If you don't want to accept it, then that's on you. The rest of it is just talk. Which you do a lot of, but don't get anywhere. Just like your team who hasn't won a ring in forever, and won't win a ring any time soon.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
He was a bust. You had him for 3 years. Didn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years. You had one lucky year. His numbers went down every year he was with Houston.

If the Rockets knew they would sign him and they wouldn't win a playoff series in 2 of the 3 years, I doubt they'd sign him for the amount they did. Yeah they were "better" with him, but he didn't make a noticeable long term impact, which I'm SURE the organization wanted from him. And you can't debate that one, no matter how hard you try.

All that bull**** talk about Hakeem training him, how it was a new start for him, how him and james would play great together. and then at the end, howard said their communication wasn't good, to which harden agreed.

At best, it was a "so-so" signing.


Lol at one lucky year. "Hey, y'all sucked with him as long as I ignore the year you didn't".

The Rockets had Howard for 3 seasons and with him, made it further than they had in two decades. That's reality. Good spin attempt though. His tenure failed to produce a title but the team was clearly better for signing him.

And I'm quite sure the Rockets were expecting long term impact from a dude post back surgery.


It's not a spin attempt. He was brought in to play with Harden and make them WCF contenders for more than just one year. Instead, you had one lucky (yeah, lucky. don't like it, too bad) year and then at the end, Dwight and Harden were at odds and Dwight was frustrated with your boy Morey.

Yeah. Great signing. Bravo.

You had ONE good year with him. ONE. Say spin all you want, but the truth remains. He was a bust. If you don't want to accept it, then that's on you. The rest of it is just talk. Which you do a lot of, but don't get anywhere. Just like your team who hasn't won a ring in forever, and won't win a ring any time soon.


Houston had a legit shot at beating Golden State til Josh Smith rolled into Dwight's knee in game 1 and turned him into Roy Hibbert for the rest of the series, but yeah the progressive degeneration of his body never had a future while his dimwitted head never grasped it (and now he's onto his 5th team in 6 years, another group to get sick of playing with dwight howard).
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject:

I always thought Kobe and Melo and Kobe and CP3 would have worked out, so I am curious to see how CP3 and Harden workout, moreso if Melo comes. Everyone is older and not quite as good and D is a hole for two of them, but the test should be somewhat valid still. They are all very savvy, experienced, and wellaware of the challenges facing them. That should lead to a whole new level of patience with each other, being extra aware of the importance of a great locker room, and nuances.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

I'm not sure why CP3 isn't able to find a team that isn't seeking new owners, facing overrulings from the league itself, or any other major distractions aside from competing.
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