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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject:

I have a hard time seeing the Lakers move on from Lonzo or Ingram. The Lakers will find the right roles/players around them, even if we get 2 max players. These kids are the guys who will keep the team competitive for a decade plus.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject:

Ingram surveyed the floor a little more than I would have liked in the first SPL game, but to fair, Lonzo was playing simply awful after the first 5 minutes and it was up to BI to do that for us to stay in the game. As LS said, you could see on several plays what BI and Zo can do together on the break either for each other or guys running along side. Let's not.forget that no look pass from BI to Zu. The kid can really get up and down the floor either with or without the ball, and either finish or make the smart pass.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
ocho wrote:
mookielala wrote:
If Ingram isn't athletic, I guess I just don't understand athletic. He has more physical gifts than anyone on this team.


Ingram has outstanding size and length, but what athletic quality of his would you describe as elite?


Elite size and length can't be dismissed as a given when talking about athleticism. I'd rather have someone with elite length than elite hops or even elite lateral quickness because that length is going to be used more consistently in both making shots and contesting shots than hops would, making no mention of how that wingspan can be used in guarding on the perimeter. Still, Ingram has elite athleticism in other areas anyway.

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Does he have elite speed?


Yes, for his size. He is actually deceptively quick because while it doesn't look like he's moving that fast, he actually is due to his long strides. It's not about how quickly his feet move going from one end to the court to the other, but rather have much ground he covers and how quickly going from one end to the other. Because his strides are so long, he actually does cover a lot of ground rather quickly. If you're wondering whether he can run in the open court, of course he can. You already saw a number of examples of him being just as good playing in the open court with ball as anyone in that first game against the Clippers where, by the way, Ball wasn't even at his best as it was his first game. If Kuzma can be a good outlet scorer, Ingram can be Kuzma on steroids in that regard.

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Elite hops?


For his size, yes actually. I forgot what his vertical was, but he's actually a fantastic leaper, as we saw last year when he started posterizing players. Remember, we're talking about a guy who is 6'10.

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You can be a big fan of his and still acknowledge his flaws. The league is filled with great players who arent great athletes, so I don't know why it is a crime against humanity to point out that he's not cut from that cloth.


I would hope no one is criticizing you simply because you are being critical. However, at the same time, the narrative that Ingram isn't an above average or even elite athlete for his size/height is just wrong IMO. One of the things which makes him so special is how quick and athletic he is at his length/size. Its exactly that which, despite the piss poor start to his rookie season, most believed he still had superstar potential. Point being, if not for his elite athleticism for his length/size, you wouldn't have so many people sticking with him because, otherwise, they would have nothing left to go on since, obviously, the results weren't there in the beginning.

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If he's going to be so incredible in transition this season why was he so awful in transition last season?


He wasn't. He was a poor shooter and a poor finisher for most of the season, but its not like he couldn't get out and run. Those are two different things (although they may all be part of the definition of "transition," so it depends on what you mean by that). I'd also argue that for most of the season his biggest issue wasn't athleticism, but it was strength. In the NBA, regardless of how quick you are, if you lack strength, you can be bumped off your stride or jump. For most of the season, that's what happened with Ingram. It wasn't that he couldn't get past people, it was that as soon as he did, he'd face some physical contact and lose his momentum. He mitigated that to a decent extent toward the end of the season, which is why we suddenly saw him getting to the basket with more frequency, but the problem was still there.

One of the things that was so encouraging about that summer league game is because it clearly looked like Ingram's body, while still not where you want it to be from a strength standpoint, had solidified and grown stronger. He absorbed contact (and even searched it out) in a way he couldn't during his rookie campaign. That should translate to the regular season.

Point being is that Ingram was inhibited in showing off his elite athleticism (quickness and leaping ability for his size) because of being overwhelmed by stronger players who prevented him from using it. That should be less and less of the case moving forward as he gets stronger. And, as we've seen, once he gets passed you, with his long strides and lengthy arms, you're not blocking his shot.

Now, none of the above has to do with his shooting (unless maybe he lacked strength in his core/lower half to get the right legs into his shot). Still, I think we'll see improvements in his shot this year and, even if he isn't necessarily a "knock down" shooter, if he improves at least decently in his 3pt shot, that's enough for him for now given everything else he brings. You do want him to keep improving on that and eventually get to Kawhi/Durant %s ideally if he can. He doesn't need to do that to become an elite player, but it would certainly make a huge difference and make his odds at becoming a superstar that much greater if he can.

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I get wanting him to be a star but you guys are banking on staggering improvement in several areas of the game that he was straight up bad at last year. He's going to get better, but the question is how much and how soon? If we land 2 max FAs the timeline gets moved up real fast.


The timeline is going to be moved up that fast. However, I think we'll already see great strides from him this year. He's going to be asked to show it this season. And, if he does show at least some of it and decent (even if not necessarily mindblowing) improvement from last year, which is possible, that should be enough. I don't think the Lakers throw away the future for 2-3 years of Lebron just because Lebron asks. A 34 year old Lebron isn't in a position to make the demands he did when he told the Cavs to trade Wiggins for Love when he was 30 years old.


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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject:

dao wrote:
more to the point about Ingram's fit with Lonzo, these two plays from the first summer league game make me extremely optimistic.



(fantastic vid from GT displaying Lonzo's passing in SL. I haven't been this high on a young player in a very long time. I don't know if I'd take KAT over him at this point).

First play:
Ingram's driving skills in early offense, before the the defense is set (when the opposition's rim protector has not yet made it into position), will make him a handful when Lonzo advances the ball. He displayed big time driving ability in the last two months of the season, and that will continue to improve as he gets stronger.

The second play shows how useful Ingram's ball handling/length/athleticism combination will be in transition. He is extremely dynamic as a ball handler in the open court when he has a full head of steam. His athleticism really, really jumps off the screen when he's allowed to to build up steam and gobble up court space with those long strides. He has the athleticism to finish the play above the rim, and the unselfishness+IQ to make the extra pass if that's what the defense gives him (as was the case in this play).

To be a perfect fit with Lonzo, obviously Ingram's spot up shooting has to improve significantly. But his driving skills will be extremely valuable in early offense, and he is extremely dynamic in the open court as a ball handler.


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RI Laker
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject:

A big asset for us starts with our administration. Magic, Rob, and Luke are going to turn our team around.


As far as ranking of our assets in terms of players, I am looking at values outside of the Lakers (in terms of trade value). This ranking does not reflect who is a better player (so don't get your panties in a bunch if your favorite player is not ranked as high as another player). Skillset, age, and contract status has a lot to do with the rankings. I also included our Summer League heroes, because some have significant value and/or increased their value since being drafted.

1. Zo. I gave him the edge because of the marketing opportunities surrounding him.

2. BI. A star in the making.

3. Kuzma and Julius. Kuzma easily played himself into a top 10 pick. A huge year for Julius. His contract situation diminishes his value somewhat.

4. Larry. Injury and health concerns coupled with his hesitancy hurt his value. This is a big year for Larry. If he becomes more aggressive and demonstrated his outside shot, his value can get quite high.

5. Zu. Came on strong last year. Disappointing Summer League performance, but if improves from the end of last year, his value could go up.

6. Lopez. A stretch big could help a team come playoff time. I think he has more value than KCP because of the changing dynamics of the league. He could fetch us a 1st under the right circumstances.

Sorry, but the rest of our players have no or a negative value.
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KobeDunk
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lonzo Ball is the only untouchable imo.


Well Magic said both Ball and Ingram are untouchable.


Kuzma will join that group soon.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Lonzo Ball is the only untouchable imo.


Well Magic said both Ball and Ingram are untouchable.


Kuzma will join that group soon.


He excites me the way Ball and Ingram does. Can't wait to see what he develops into.

I may be a bit overly optimistic but I think we have a future big three if we're patient.
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