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oldlakerfan Star Player
Joined: 15 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: Tega Cay, South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | BleedPurpleGold wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Let me put it another way. If you can't trust Jud to make a decision that any one of us would have made, in a summer league game, then what is he doing on the staff?
If he can't be trusted to make the right call in summer league, how can he be trusted in a regular season game? |
He's not being trusted to make any decisions in a regular season game. What the hell.. |
He is, but if you have never been part of a coaching staff I guess you wouldn't know that the coaches all make game time decisions. |
This wasn't a game-time decision. It was a broad picture organization decision.
And stop embarrassing yourself with half-witted "knowledge and insight"
It's really no different than how minor league managers write out lineups and make pitching and usage decisions under the direction of - and for the benefit - of the Major League team.
Every decision Jud or any summer-league coach is making is with the blessing of the higher-ups. Jesus, this isn't about Jud. Or a five-game summer-league coach. It's about the organization.
And yes, there are instances in which Jerry West or any other NBA GM or team president has made game-time recommendations to the coach during summer league games. This is a development/assessment period. |
Point one of those times out. |
This really seems like a nothing burger. What Magic did was a no brainer |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: |
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"Meanwhile, Caldwell-Pope found several things about the Lakers appealing, including the vision of Johnson and Coach Luke Walton, the team’s offense the franchise’s platform, and an expiring contract that could yield a hefty payday in the 2018 offseason when he becomes a free agent, according to a league source familiar with his thinking."
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/11/lakers-notes-team-meets-with-free-agent-guards-kentavious-caldwell-pope-rajon-rondo/
The new regime is so much better in the salesmanship department. Can't remember Mitch and Jim ever being praised for their "vision." Hearing this kind of stuff is a breath of fresh air. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | The new regime is so much better in the salesmanship department. Can't remember Mitch and Jim ever being praised for their "vision." Hearing this kind of stuff is a breath of fresh air. |
It's hard to praise a vision when no one knows what it is except the guys with it. That's the big difference between the previous FO and the current one. Magic and Pelinka have told everyone alive what they're planning to do. Mitch and and Jim were always silent as a mouse _________________ Kobe |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | "Meanwhile, Caldwell-Pope found several things about the Lakers appealing, including the vision of Johnson and Coach Luke Walton, the team’s offense the franchise’s platform, and an expiring contract that could yield a hefty payday in the 2018 offseason when he becomes a free agent, according to a league source familiar with his thinking."
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/11/lakers-notes-team-meets-with-free-agent-guards-kentavious-caldwell-pope-rajon-rondo/
The new regime is so much better in the salesmanship department. Can't remember Mitch and Jim ever being praised for their "vision." Hearing this kind of stuff is a breath of fresh air. |
Magic is a man that everyone in the league reveres. Unlike some armchair message board GM's who trash him or call him "Tragic" and other silly names, he's a man who players around the league respect and listen to. Whether or not Magic's "vision" is one that will lead us to championships remains to be seen, but he definitely has the stroke and ability to sell players on the fact that it will. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | Judah wrote: | The new regime is so much better in the salesmanship department. Can't remember Mitch and Jim ever being praised for their "vision." Hearing this kind of stuff is a breath of fresh air. |
It's hard to praise a vision when no one knows what it is except the guys with it. That's the big difference between the previous FO and the current one. Magic and Pelinka have told everyone alive what they're planning to do. Mitch and and Jim were always silent as a mouse |
"Speak it into existence!" |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | Judah wrote: | "Meanwhile, Caldwell-Pope found several things about the Lakers appealing, including the vision of Johnson and Coach Luke Walton, the team’s offense the franchise’s platform, and an expiring contract that could yield a hefty payday in the 2018 offseason when he becomes a free agent, according to a league source familiar with his thinking."
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/11/lakers-notes-team-meets-with-free-agent-guards-kentavious-caldwell-pope-rajon-rondo/
The new regime is so much better in the salesmanship department. Can't remember Mitch and Jim ever being praised for their "vision." Hearing this kind of stuff is a breath of fresh air. |
Magic is a man that everyone in the league reveres. Unlike some armchair message board GM's who trash him or call him "Tragic" and other silly names, he's a man who players around the league respect and listen to. Whether or not Magic's "vision" is one that will lead us to championships remains to be seen, but he definitely has the stroke and ability to sell players on the fact that it will. |
Yeah, the new front office is killing it so far. |
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32 Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Posts: 73040
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Another good move was not overpaying for Paul George this year. Yes it would have been nice to get him over here this year and it would have likely increased our chances of keeping him. There are no guarantees Paul George will be signing with us next year but I'm glad the FO held firm. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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JohnWick Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Jun 2017 Posts: 251
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Very good signing getting KCP. That brings my FO grade this offseason to a B so far. I still rank the Dlo trade as an F but everything else has been pretty good. |
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Laker's Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 12813
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | AY2043 wrote: | Everything after the DLO trade has been A+ for me. Loved our draft, we were patient in FA, and ended up with one of the best available FA's. Nice work Maglinka |
Really digging the patience in FA too. Deliberate, I wasn't clawing for a signing, liked the idea of LAL waiting for the right time to sign their guys. Struck out on Hill & Waiters but were only giving one year deals, so it is what it is. |
I like the signing and have no complaints that others said no, but is t their patience really just that they offered people and some already said no? |
I think it's fair to say they could have set their sights lower and found guys to take the money for one year rather than risk those guys sign elsewhere while they look for the right fit. Could have been left holding the bag but they were judicious and it worked out. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I still don't really like most of what comes out of Magic's mouth, but the FO has been doing very nice so far. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Call it what you will. Either you wanna say it was "luck" which every successful team probably experiences. Or call it skills. But I gotta give props to the front office. From the Busses, to Magic and Rob, and to the assistants and scouts. |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it seems like Magic and Rob made the Lakers watchable again.
For the past five years the Lakers have come more and more unwatchable.
It was tank city for the past three years. The team had no pride and it was another beating from another team.
But now there is hope.
Fans will come to watch Lonzo. To see how he will do.
And there is hope with a scoring center Lopez.
And a defensive SG KCP.
And Jules Randle is in a conract year.
Ingram is in his second year.
The bench has shooters in Kuzma and Clarkson. |
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RI Laker Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 7135
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Our FO are the executives of the year during the off season after the Twolves. They have been "BUSY". |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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If you look at the top salaries of the top teams and those of the Lakers in the prev FO, you have to conclude that the previous FO was stupid and incompetent. Mich and Jim were the worse FO in the league by far.
Mosgov 17M year for 4 years
Deng 18M year for 4 years
Clarkson 13M year for 4 years
2018 first round draft pick goes to Boston.
And look at the salaries of the successful teams.
They don't pay big bucks for a player until they are all stars or the like.
Look at GSW, Cavs, Spurs. All their top earners are all stars with big names. Curry, Durant, LBJ, etc etc.
And LBJ is not for long term either.
Magic and Rob have started their tenure with their hands tied behind their back.
With unloading Mosgov they have only one hand tied.
Hope the Lakers don't tank again to give Boston the top pick. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure we can celebrate magic and Rob without dissing Mitch and Jim. |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Dissing Mich and Jim because they put the Lakers in a hole.
If they had made no decisions at least it was better. They left poison pills.
Now Magic and Rob have to get rid of bad contracts.
And give the first round pick to the Celtics.
And still try to build a team that will compete. |
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True Lakers Fan Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2011 Posts: 917 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that sold me on Magic was a simple fact that he didn't sit there and wait for a trade to come. He went out there and made a trade the first day he was VP. That tells me that he genuinely wants to make this franchise to be better.
We can critic the Russell trade all we want, but it got the job done for the bigger picture. I think it is safe to say that besides the Lonzo pick, Jim and Mitch would be sitting on their hands during the off season. _________________ I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying. |
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TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Laker's Fan wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | AY2043 wrote: | Everything after the DLO trade has been A+ for me. Loved our draft, we were patient in FA, and ended up with one of the best available FA's. Nice work Maglinka |
Really digging the patience in FA too. Deliberate, I wasn't clawing for a signing, liked the idea of LAL waiting for the right time to sign their guys. Struck out on Hill & Waiters but were only giving one year deals, so it is what it is. |
I like the signing and have no complaints that others said no, but is t their patience really just that they offered people and some already said no? |
I think it's fair to say they could have set their sights lower and found guys to take the money for one year rather than risk those guys sign elsewhere while they look for the right fit. Could have been left holding the bag but they were judicious and it worked out. |
The previous FO went through the same situation of offering the top FAs contracts and being rejected from 2014 - 2016, and they weren't even limited to 1-year deals. Here's how they responded each year:
2014 - Traded for Lin (Expiring), Signed Nick Young to a 4-Year Deal (Player Option for 4th Year), Punted Remaining Cap Space by Signing Jordan Hill to a 1-Year Deal, Picked Up Boozer off Waivers, Signed Ed Davis to a 2-Year Deal (PO for 2nd Year)
2015 - Traded for Hibbert (Expiring), Signed Lou to a 3-Year Deal, Signed Bass to a 2-Year Deal (PO for 2nd Year)
2016 - Signed Moz and Deng to Deals Lasting an Eternity...
So overall, nothing that moved the needle too much and they got progressively worse over the years with their signings, culminating in last summer's abomination. Though to be fair, there were some nice moves sprinkled in there - getting Lin and a 1st round pick (Nance) was a win, signing Swagy P was...a mixed bag (probably would've been better off letting him go to begin with), and Lou was definitely another all-around win (both the 1.5 years he played for us and the return he netted us when we traded him). Everything else other than Davis and Bass was negligible, and in the big picture, even those two moves were useless since we didn't end up signing them beyond their one guaranteed year. Ultimately, it was a little bit of good, a whole lot of nothing, and two big WTFs for Mitch and Jim in free agency.
Will KCP join Davis and Bass as signings that will be forgotten in the long run? Probably. But he's likely a better player than anyone else that was signed in the last four years and is a near perfect fit with our precious #2 pick who we're trying to develop on a accelerated timeline. That in itself is a win. Yet he's still not a superstar, nor even an All-Star. The real test for Magilinka still looms in summer 2018... |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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True Lakers Fan wrote: | The thing that sold me on Magic was a simple fact that he didn't sit there and wait for a trade to come. He went out there and made a trade the first day he was VP. That tells me that he genuinely wants to make this franchise to be better.
We can critic the Russell trade all we want, but it got the job done for the bigger picture. I think it is safe to say that besides the Lonzo pick, Jim and Mitch would be sitting on their hands during the off season. |
Agreed on all points except for that last sentence. Had Mitch and Jim still been in office, I could easily see them complimenting the horrible deals for Mozgov and Deng with an equally horrible trade for Melo during this offseason in a desperate attempt to to save their jobs:
'Hey, we may not have made it to the conference finals, but at least we landed a star.'
People lost their minds when Russell was traded to BK, but Mitch and Jim would've probably traded the second pick + other assets to get Melo. Then they probably would've signed Rondo as the starting point guard:
'See?! See?! We got two stars this offseason! Give us another year to try to sign LeBron! I guarantee you that LeBron signs up next year and we'll win the whole thing, sometime within the next 2-3 years. Mark my words.'
It's laughable on the surface, but it's easy to see moves within that framework as the kind of stuff they would've been trying to pull off if they were still here. Rich Paul was the one who commended Magic and Rob for their patience and said that it drew his interest enough to initiate the KCP negotiations. Did other guys say no to them first? Yes (lol). But that doesn't mean they weren't patient. They went after the guys they wanted. But when those guys turned them down, they didn't go out and make a string of shortsighted, panic moves. And for that they do deserve credit because it ultimately resulted in KCP. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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€H£M£$TR¥ Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017 Posts: 3782
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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I think we're seeing the Vision FO has as its being built. Fast up and down positionless basketball with defensive efforts leading to fast break baskets. If we hold the opposition to 85-90 range, we can outscore and out run into the playoffs. It's up to Coach Walton to tinker with his pieces and gameplan well in division games, but the FO has impressed me with their patience, draft selections/moves, and timing. _________________ DEAR BASKETBALL |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:22 am Post subject: |
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32 wrote: | Another good move was not overpaying for Paul George this year. Yes it would have been nice to get him over here this year and it would have likely increased our chances of keeping him. There are no guarantees Paul George will be signing with us next year but I'm glad the FO held firm. |
George evidently disagrees. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: |
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True Lakers Fan wrote: | The thing that sold me on Magic was a simple fact that he didn't sit there and wait for a trade to come. He went out there and made a trade the first day he was VP. That tells me that he genuinely wants to make this franchise to be better.
We can critic the Russell trade all we want, but it got the job done for the bigger picture. I think it is safe to say that besides the Lonzo pick, Jim and Mitch would be sitting on their hands during the off season. |
That trade was agreed upon for a month, according to Morey. It was on hold in case something came up at the deadline that they could join in. Magic prematurely making the trade took away that option. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Los Angeles Lakers have become a hot ticket again
Quote: | The Los Angeles Lakers have become a hot ticket again as they have already sold out their season tickets.
There is a new feeling around the Los Angeles Lakers this season. Despite missing four consecutive postseasons, there is a lot of buzz building around the Lakers. |
http://lakeshowlife.com/2017/07/25/los-angeles-lakers-become-hot-ticket/ |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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€H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | I think we're seeing the Vision FO has as its being built. Fast up and down positionless basketball with defensive efforts leading to fast break baskets. If we hold the opposition to 85-90 range, we can outscore and out run into the playoffs. It's up to Coach Walton to tinker with his pieces and gameplan well in division games, but the FO has impressed me with their patience, draft selections/moves, and timing. |
Good points here (although I think we will be involved in a lot of high scoring games). Lakers nabbed 4 solid rookies, signed KCP, kept ennis, brought in a big who can shoot 3s, and didn't make any moves that would cause them to overpay for guys or otherwise bring trouble. Basically gave themselves a chance to be fun to watch this year and have options next year in FA. I'm really looking forward to the season, wish it started already. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm super Impressed on what Pelinka and Magic are displaying. All they have done this summer is being resilient and patient while also significantly Improving the team.
I gotta say I know a lot of people don't have faith in the current regime convincing top tier FAs to come but with how they have handled themselves this summer, any FA who doesn't look at them without being Impressed is pretty crazy cause the new FO has really shown that they can really give players a sense of comfort. |
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