That means we're in the playoff, you don't blow a playoff team all under 25 (sorry Lopez), just give Lopez money to PG and tweak it from there
Sounds good
This plays along with guys progressing in their games (Randall's D and Ingram's continued strength improvement especially) and PG consenting of coarse.
Would it look something like this? Or would they stack KCP, George, Ingram and Randall from 2-4 and play Nance at center for 20mpg? Maybe KCP plays an Odom type starter off the bench role in that scenario. That and you get to run Kuzma at 4.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: Re: What if Randle and KCP have breakout seasons?
BigEvil wrote:
Just for the sake of conversation...
Let's say that Randle and KCP had near all star years. Add to that Ball and Ingram having significant growth which translates to a winning season.
Come the off season do we:
- sign our two young breakout stars?
- still swing for the fences and shoot for Bron and PG?
- try to sign our two youngsters and maybe one superstar? If so, which?
- is there another palatable scenario?
There won't be enough for everyone.
actually there could be enough for everyone. if everyone isnt asking for the maximum they think they could get on the open market.
lets look at pg13. does he truly deserve the max? ehhhhh not really. close. but not the max. but will he require that from the lakers? thats the question.
same goes for whoever else the lakers are thinking about(not bron).
same goes for randle and kcp. will they be looking to get the biggest check?
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144456 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: Re: What if Randle and KCP have breakout seasons?
splashmtn wrote:
BigEvil wrote:
Just for the sake of conversation...
Let's say that Randle and KCP had near all star years. Add to that Ball and Ingram having significant growth which translates to a winning season.
Come the off season do we:
- sign our two young breakout stars?
- still swing for the fences and shoot for Bron and PG?
- try to sign our two youngsters and maybe one superstar? If so, which?
- is there another palatable scenario?
There won't be enough for everyone.
actually there could be enough for everyone. if everyone isnt asking for the maximum they think they could get on the open market.
lets look at pg13. does he truly deserve the max? ehhhhh not really. close. but not the max. but will he require that from the lakers? thats the question.
same goes for whoever else the lakers are thinking about(not bron).
same goes for randle and kcp. will they be looking to get the biggest check?
The NBA isn't a charity. If we were contenders then we might see players giving up some salary. We aren't, so why would a player take less? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
If KCP and Randle have breakout seasons you try to keep them.
The key is making the playoffs. Without that winning success it will not be a building foundation.
The Lakers making the playoffs means they have a chance at Paul George unless OKC wins the Western conference.
If the Lakers make the playoffs, keep the players with good seasons.
The FAs will start coming if they win.
Pick a pair: KCP and Randle. Or Lebron and PG. Easy answer if you ask me.
I'll go with KCP and Randle AND George AND most of our current team intact, over George and Lebron with a gutted roster and a bunch of vet min players _________________ Kobe
I do not know enough about KCP besides that he was a steal this year in FA given that nobody expected him to be on the market. But I have heard great things on the boards here on LG that he is tenacious on D and can hit the 3.
I think Randle has a statistically better year but I wouldn't say he has a breakout year. IMO, I respect Randle as a player, he plays tough and is a walking double-double, but his jump shot consistency and his lack of Right hand are some things to look forward to this season. Given how Kuzma showed flashes in SL, Randle has a big year in front of him.
Pick a pair: KCP and Randle. Or Lebron and PG. Easy answer if you ask me.
KCP and Randle can come with Lopez too financially.
LeBron and PG can't.
The question is, can LeBron and PG lead the Lakers with 19 year old Ball and Ingram to a Championship and Zubac as starting center? Can we beat the Warriors within a 2-3 season span?
Keep in mind that LeBron will be 34 by December of that 2nd season.
Not sure we'll be ready by then unfortunately. I also have to ask with Paul George's tendency to want the ball in his hands constantly to the point of calling out teammates for taking the last shot instead of him, how long it would take before he got frustrated with LeBron in the way Kyrie did.
On paper LBJ and PG are better than KCP and Randle.
But let me add another equation to that.
Are the trio of KCP/Randle/Cousins
Better than PG and LeBron? Maybe not the first year.. but the next year and the following 2-3 seasons down the line when Lonzo and Ingram are 22 and starting to find their NBA stride..
Keep in mind, the perspective on Cousins is that he'd have chosen to be here, which means the conditioning/weight/role etc would be things he agreed on and wanted to be a part of so the "I really don't want to be here" stuff doesn't factor in.
If I'm looking at a team that can beat Golden State, assuming that KCP and Randle both have breakout seasons.. I probably invest in Cousins more so than Paul George. Because that lineup is solid in it's first year, but also further solid in the next 2-3 as Cousins will still be in his 20s, Randle will be approaching 25, KCP will be 27 and Lonzo and Ingram will be 22.
Consider that the Warriors will be 2-3 seasons older as well, and suddenly we're the young lion team that can not only run teams out of the gym with our youth and fast pace, but also beat them in the half court and post with the best center in the league.
If I'm thinking Championships and Long Term success and not just a 1-2 season run before needing to backtrack if we don't have a championship by then, then I'll go KCP/Randle/Cousins all day. Some may disagree with that though, but I think that team continues to grow and would be a team most likely that would unseat Golden State. Because their setup directly counters Golden State, while also being able to play at their pace, if not faster depending on how Lonzo develops.
I'll take this lineup for longevity and the fact they'll all be in their 20s still after the 2-3 seasons.
Lonzo Ball
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
Matchup-wise.. assuming that our guys develop as we expect and continue to get better, Lonzo is 22, Ingram is 22, KCP is 27, Randle is 25, Cousins is 29.
Considering the style of play both in the open court and half court of that team and the pace it'd be capable of. How does 31-32 year old Steph, 30 year old Klay, 31 year old Durant, and 30 year old Draymond keep up with those young lions? Who has the potential to run a faster pace, but also dominate them in the post which prevents them from running small ball, but also having a center(Cousins) capable of running the break himself with or without the ball?
It would be a nightmare matchup for any team, ESPECIALLY the Warriors at that point, and if we beat them we're taking the Finals, and after that it's hard to imagine any team beating that lineup over the next 2 seasons.
It requires however our guys developing as we expect and continuing to get better, but as that's the standard we're trying to set, I'd say there'd be a very good chance of that happening.
That's the perspective I have on the situation. If I'm thinking those 2-3 seasons down the line when Golden State is vulnerable, I want THAT team of young lions going against them and running them out of the gym, and beating them in the half court as opposed to a 34-36 year old LeBron who we'd have to change/slow down the offense for and a 30 year old Paul George trying to beat Golden State at primarily their own game, which Cleveland already showed they couldn't do. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
These types of threads are always funny to me. If they both have breakout seasons GREAT!!! The team needs to get better and they offer money to legitimate players with a future (unlike the previous FO that was chasing or signing players without a future). It doesn't have to be Paul George it could be Randle or KCP if they earn it. I don't think either will be worth a max and it may mean some tough decisions but that is why Magic & Pelinka are paid big bucks.
Pick a pair: KCP and Randle. Or Lebron and PG. Easy answer if you ask me.
2 on 2 at the rec center I agree with you. On a Laker roster with financial and team development concerns? Not as easy an answer.
Just financially it could potentially be $40m compared to $70m in salary.
Personally I am looking for re-evaluation next summer. If KCP, Randle and even Lopez (think his 3pt shooting and contributions are being under valued ) prove to be significant in this offense then simply adding George may be the simplist and smartest path.
Good thing Mitch and Jimbo are gone, cause they would max-out average players...lol _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Pick a team that you can have for the next 5 seasons and pick which one is gonna give you the most longevity and success.
Team A: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
Ivica Zubac
Bench:
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant
Ivica Zubac
(bunch of vets minimums)
Team B: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
Bench:
Jordan Clarkson
Ian Clark
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.
Ivica Zubac
Thomas Bryant
Which team would you take from 2018-2023 that you think would give us the most longevity and consistent success moving forward. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:22 am Post subject: Re: What if Randle and KCP have breakout seasons?
CRoost wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
BigEvil wrote:
Just for the sake of conversation...
Let's say that Randle and KCP had near all star years. Add to that Ball and Ingram having significant growth which translates to a winning season.
Come the off season do we:
- sign our two young breakout stars?
- still swing for the fences and shoot for Bron and PG?
- try to sign our two youngsters and maybe one superstar? If so, which?
- is there another palatable scenario?
There won't be enough for everyone.
The formula of winning championship is heavy reliant on superstars. KCP and Randle will never get to that level. Lonzo and Ingram is not ready but hopefully they get there sooner than later. Meanwhile let's get our superstars and see how far can we go. This will be valuable experiences to Lonzo and Ingram whether we win it or not. By the time they enter their primes in 3-4 years, we can make another run with them and they will be more ready.
And by then the superstar players you sign are exiting their primes. Poor roster construction. Re-sign KCP and Randle after signing PG. PG is in his prime, KCP will be a year or so from his, Randle will be a couple of years from his and Ingram and Ball will be 5 years from his. Much better roster construction.
The end game is winning championships. You need superstars to do this. KCP and Randle are expendable players, not someone you build your team around. If you get yourself a chance to get PG and Lebron, you do it unless it will cost us Lonzo and Ingram. Expendable players are replaceable. You can go way back with Shaq and Kobe era, we were trading all Stars from Ceballos, Jones ,Nick and Rice.
You aren't building around JR and KCP, they would be signed to build around the superstar we sign. Similar to the Warriors where there isn't an 8 year age gap between your stars and your young players.
If Lonzo and Ingram become superstars this year then I can agree. They gonna have bumps and bruises to get there and it will take about 4 years if it happen. The time frame allow us to sign 2 max to get our Untouchables valuable playoff experience. No way guys like Randle and KCP can do that. So by the time they are entering their prime, they will have all that wisdom and experience to carry them over and hopefully take us to promise land. And if there's a chance that one of them fast track and became a superstar in that time frame, we might get there earlier.
Edit. No way we can afford them if they have a breakout season even if we only sign one superstar.
Right. Curry didn't win more than 26 games until his fifth year. I full expect another sub-30 win year. KCP isnt a longtime guy for us. He was brought to help on D and be insurance to bench guys if they arent playing defense. He's going to try grt his scoring up and go somewhere else for big money. We hope to start building a winning culture by getting to the playoffs in 2019
Pick a team that you can have for the next 5 seasons and pick which one is gonna give you the most longevity and success.
Team A: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
Ivica Zubac
Bench:
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant
Ivica Zubac
(bunch of vets minimums)
Team B: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
Bench:
Jordan Clarkson
Ian Clark
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.
Ivica Zubac
Thomas Bryant
Which team would you take from 2018-2023 that you think would give us the most longevity and consistent success moving forward.
You mentioned Zubac twice. I would agree with you on the second team, but I find it really hard to pass up on LeBron. I can find shades of Shaq when he was traded to Miami. I think it may set us up in the future as well in terms of FA likability if we get the, arguably, current best player in the NBA.
If we do get really lucky next year, I'd be very happy to land two (one is still good though) from the list of LeBron James, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, or DeMarcus Cousins with the caveat that we call James first.
If they both have break out year, and team actually win more, then it means they fit in the team, especially fit with Lonzo. In this case, I'll take them over LeBron, cause they will have about 5-7 years to make each other better.
Pick a team that you can have for the next 5 seasons and pick which one is gonna give you the most longevity and success.
Team A: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
Ivica Zubac
Bench:
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant
Ivica Zubac
(bunch of vets minimums)
Team B: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
Bench:
Jordan Clarkson
Ian Clark
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.
Ivica Zubac
Thomas Bryant
Which team would you take from 2018-2023 that you think would give us the most longevity and consistent success moving forward.
Tough to answer that with JR and DC still having so many questions surrounding them. At the current versions of themselves, the easy answer is the first line-up. And between the remaining cap-space and room MLE, I think they will be able to sign someone better than Zubac if LBJ and PG come on board. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Pick a team that you can have for the next 5 seasons and pick which one is gonna give you the most longevity and success.
Team A: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
Ivica Zubac
Bench:
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant
(bunch of vets minimums)
Team B: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
Bench:
Jordan Clarkson
Ian Clark
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.
Ivica Zubac
Thomas Bryant
Which team would you take from 2018-2023 that you think would give us the most longevity and consistent success moving forward.
Tough to answer that with JR and DC still having so many questions surrounding them. At the current versions of themselves, the easy answer is the first line-up. And between the remaining cap-space and room MLE, I think they will be able to sign someone better than Zubac if LBJ and PG come on board.
I doubt they'd find a better center than Zubac for the MLE considering the market.
Not just that, but even with questions, at worst Cousins is the best center in the league and a 27/11 guy that can stretch the floor shooting 37% from three as well as post up. At best he's an even better version of that. Note, he has signed on to the same trainer that Julius Randle has, and is already seeing similar results in his body, so that's a very good sign going forward for him. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Pick a team that you can have for the next 5 seasons and pick which one is gonna give you the most longevity and success.
Team A: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
Ivica Zubac
Bench:
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant
(bunch of vets minimums)
Team B: from 2018-2023
Lonzo Ball
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
Bench:
Jordan Clarkson
Ian Clark
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.
Ivica Zubac
Thomas Bryant
Which team would you take from 2018-2023 that you think would give us the most longevity and consistent success moving forward.
Tough to answer that with JR and DC still having so many questions surrounding them. At the current versions of themselves, the easy answer is the first line-up. And between the remaining cap-space and room MLE, I think they will be able to sign someone better than Zubac if LBJ and PG come on board.
I doubt they'd find a better center than Zubac for the MLE considering the market.
Not just that, but even with questions, at worstCousins is the best center in the league and a 27/11 guy that can stretch the floor shooting 37% from three as well as post up. At best he's an even better version of that. Note, he has signed on to the same trainer that Julius Randle has, and is already seeing similar results in his body, so that's a very good sign going forward for him.
At worst, Cousins could be far worse than you suggest and frankly he's already a fair bit of a head case. He is a coaching nightmare, with a league history so far of producing more team discord and creating more personal drama than any other player of his time. I suggest he is very possibly incapable of sacrificing any personal agendas for the betterment of a team. Who the hell needs that ? Let him stomp around New Orleans and anywhere else who'd take him - to ruin their fate.
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