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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
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 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Alright let's play a game...
If a "name" player at 24 put up 18/5/4 while playing lock down defense and shooting 45% from the field and 41% from three.
How much would you pay to get him?
If KCP does that we need to re-sign him.
People get way way WAY too locked in on "names" and don't understand how strong it makes us.
If we went and got Paul George, we'd have to bench Ingram or force Ingram to play the 2 which he isn't capable of, or we'd have to force George to play the 2 or the 4 which he isn't comfortable with.
But if we keep KCP we can play KCP who had those great numbers AND Ingram together in a situation that fits both of them better and allows them to be maximized further and ultimately is probably the better outcome. |
Thats Avery Bradley territory. Not sure if thats a max guy to me and I don't know if its as simple as the numbers. If he's a leader out there for us, maybe.
I just don't see that happening unless BI and/or Zo fall flat on their face. |
Oh I wouldn't max him at 30M a year, but I'd pay him very handily and wouldn't try to short change him.
Wouldn't go 30M but in this current CBA with the current market value some guys are getting, I'd say anywhere from 18-22M would be the territory for an 18/5/4 guy that plays top tier defense and shoots 45% fromthe field and 41% from three. I mean JJ Redick got a one year 22 Mill contract for 15/1/2 with no defense, on 44% from the field and 42% from three, and at 33.
Do I'd say at 24 a kid putting up 18/5/4 on 45% from the field and 41% from three could probably demand more in the current market value as it's set, so retaining KCP anywhere from 18-22M would be a solid outcome for us.
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Alright let's play a game...
If a "name" player at 24 put up 18/5/4 while playing lock down defense and shooting 45% from the field and 41% from three.
How much would you pay to get him?
If KCP does that we need to re-sign him.
People get way way WAY too locked in on "names" and don't understand how strong it makes us.
If we went and got Paul George, we'd have to bench Ingram or force Ingram to play the 2 which he isn't capable of, or we'd have to force George to play the 2 or the 4 which he isn't comfortable with.
But if we keep KCP we can play KCP who had those great numbers AND Ingram together in a situation that fits both of them better and allows them to be maximized further and ultimately is probably the better outcome. |
Thats Avery Bradley territory. Not sure if thats a max guy to me and I don't know if its as simple as the numbers. If he's a leader out there for us, maybe.
I just don't see that happening unless BI and/or Zo fall flat on their face. |
Oh I wouldn't max him at 30M a year, but I'd pay him very handily and wouldn't try to short change him.
Wouldn't go 30M but in this current CBA with the current market value some guys are getting, I'd say anywhere from 18-22M would be the territory for an 18/5/4 guy that plays top tier defense and shoots 45% fromthe field and 41% from three. I mean JJ Redick got a one year 22 Mill contract for 15/1/2 with no defense, on 44% from the field and 42% from three, and at 33.
Do I'd say at 24 a kid putting up 18/5/4 on 45% from the field and 41% from three could probably demand more in the current market value as it's set, so retaining KCP anywhere from 18-22M would be a solid outcome for us. |
I just think it'll have to be more than what his numbers are. If we are winning games and he was a clear contributor to that, sure. If he's just a guy on a contract year jacking up shots in a down year? Not so much. So he'll have to show himself to do more than put up your kind of numbers plus defense to earn that big contract.
Thats why I brought up Avery Bradley. Love the guy, but he's not much of a leader out there at all. He goes to work and produces and theres value to that, but theres also incrementsl value in being a leader, locker room guy, all those intangibles that make a Draymond green worth more despite worse numbers. |
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Luminous8
Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Alright let's play a game...
If a "name" player at 24 put up 18/5/4 while playing lock down defense and shooting 45% from the field and 41% from three.
How much would you pay to get him?
If KCP does that we need to re-sign him.
People get way way WAY too locked in on "names" and don't understand how strong it makes us.
If we went and got Paul George, we'd have to bench Ingram or force Ingram to play the 2 which he isn't capable of, or we'd have to force George to play the 2 or the 4 which he isn't comfortable with.
But if we keep KCP we can play KCP who had those great numbers AND Ingram together in a situation that fits both of them better and allows them to be maximized further and ultimately is probably the better outcome. |
IMO, if KCP is putting up numbers like that, while playing for THE LAKERS,.....hes probably already on the verge of being a "name". Definitely someone you would have to you would have to strongly consider re-signing. I have a bit more tempered expectations myself. If he can give us 15/4/3 while shooting good percentages you have to think Maginka are going to be legitimately looking at ways to keep the kid. |
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socalsp3
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe if he avg close to 20ppg and plays great defense. |
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underdogsgv
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Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Posts: 124
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Career 40% shooter. Let's see how he's affected playing with Lonzo and in our offense first. If we consider offering him the max, we should first offer it to Avery Bradley as he's better defensively and offensively than KCP. I bet Avery Bradley is obtainable if we make him a priority.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal.
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kevin61
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Max ? Really? |
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JamaalWilkes
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1176
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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KFC is not good enough to get a max contract.
Period. |
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deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14911
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
We lost DLO to get rid of Moz but got; Lopez, & Kuz and lucked into KCP; probably a good trade.
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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we wont win anything if we max out a 3 and D player. Max contracts should still be reserved to legit stars
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DangeRuss
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
Agree 100% |
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OregonLakerGuy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
KCP Has done very little to warrant a max contract so far. Maybe if he has some kind of breakout year for us. Signing second tier players to max contracts is how teams get stuck in mediocrity. |
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DangeRuss
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1418
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
KCP Has done very little to warrant a max contract so far. Maybe if he has some kind of breakout year for us. Signing second tier players to max contracts is how teams get stuck in mediocrity. |
They really need to redo the cba on max contracts, I think they should make it to where you can't qualify for a max if you're not an all star, or all NBA player, or lead your team in points or somthing likes that because every single average and above player getting the max is killing the NBA and the free agency market. They're about to enter a huge bubble soon. |
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Jiggling Jello
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Alright let's play a game...
If a "name" player at 24 put up 18/5/4 while playing lock down defense and shooting 45% from the field and 41% from three.
How much would you pay to get him?
If KCP does that we need to re-sign him.
People get way way WAY too locked in on "names" and don't understand how strong it makes us.
If we went and got Paul George, we'd have to bench Ingram or force Ingram to play the 2 which he isn't capable of, or we'd have to force George to play the 2 or the 4 which he isn't comfortable with.
But if we keep KCP we can play KCP who had those great numbers AND Ingram together in a situation that fits both of them better and allows them to be maximized further and ultimately is probably the better outcome. |
It depends on how he gets his points. If he is able to shoot well and becomes an above-average finisher, by all means, give him the max. If not, he'll end up being a role player with a star's contract. That'll end up hindering the Lakers, similar to Nicolas Batum's contract with the Hornets.
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Jiggling Jello
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Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DangeRuss wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
KCP Has done very little to warrant a max contract so far. Maybe if he has some kind of breakout year for us. Signing second tier players to max contracts is how teams get stuck in mediocrity. |
They really need to redo the cba on max contracts, I think they should make it to where you can't qualify for a max if you're not an all star, or all NBA player, or lead your team in points or somthing likes that because every single average and above player getting the max is killing the NBA and the free agency market. They're about to enter a huge bubble soon. |
The NBA Player's Union will never let that through if they can help it.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21499
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Re-Signing KCP To Max. |
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| Lakers2015 wrote: | In the event that the Lakers are unable to sign LeBron James and Paul George (or maybe just sign PG13) I think without a doubt the best possible move would be to max out KCP and make sure he remains in Los Angeles and allow him to grow with Ingram and Ball. He's the first legit 3&D the Lakers have had in years probably since Artest or Ariza. Those kind of guys are invaluable in today's NBA and KCP still has the potential to grow and develop into a more consistent shooter and his numbers should very well sky rocket with Lonzo. His defense is top notch when it comes to defending opposing guards.
Thoughts? |
He would have to fall in to that sweet zone where he isn't good enough for another team to give him a legit offer, while he spends a few weeks waiting for LeBron to make his decision.
Just my personal opinion, but I expect the Lakers to hesitate on making good move because LeBronze is jerking them off with zero intention of really coming here. We will end up wasting our time. Hopefully LeBron at least has a soft grip so our years of getting jerked around are actually enjoyable. |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
We lost DLO to get rid of Moz but got; Lopez, & Kuz and lucked into KCP; probably a good trade. |
nah horrible return. we most likely get Kuzma either way so the trade basically would be DLO for:
KCP (35% 3 shooting ok D role player is not exactly a rare sighting)
Hart (could be decent role player but most likely will never make us forget about losing DLO)
Bryant (same as Hart)
Lopez (already over the hill and doesnt rebound... extending him will be at Mozgov/Deng mistake level)
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Chronicle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
Even if they turn out to be better players?
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TheKing23
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Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | It's kind of funny that the Knicks like to set the market on bad deals. Last year they set the Center market with Noah (and unfortunately LA and a few others followed) and this year they set the bad contract market on guards with Hardaway Jr.
Assuming it doesn't get in the way with 2Max (trades and such), I could see LA having interest @ something like the Hardaway numbers if not hopefully a bit less. |
The moron Kupchak set the bar with his 12:01 signing of Mozgov. A direct consequence was trading DLO for the mistake. Not contented he signed long term the corpse of Deng just to shat on all of us just for kicks. Thus ended the career of one the most overrated executive around a known overpayer and bidder against himself. |
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LakersMD
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 8014
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DangeRuss wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I would be disappointed if we got rid of Dlo so we could max out KCP and re sign Brook to a huge deal. |
KCP Has done very little to warrant a max contract so far. Maybe if he has some kind of breakout year for us. Signing second tier players to max contracts is how teams get stuck in mediocrity. |
They really need to redo the cba on max contracts, I think they should make it to where you can't qualify for a max if you're not an all star, or all NBA player, or lead your team in points or somthing likes that because every single average and above player getting the max is killing the NBA and the free agency market. They're about to enter a huge bubble soon. |
IMO if they created some sort of system where they eliminated the max contract altogether but kept a salary cap in place that would solve the problem you're talking about. Superstars would get their true market value of 30-50 mil per year and there'd be less money leftover to overpay mediocre players. |
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jankobe
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Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 781
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Premature Thread! You haven't seen him play in a Lakers uniform. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Max out KCP ?
That is something likely to make us all forget about Luke Walton's inflated player contract. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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We're getting into the dead zone of the off-season, where there is really nothing to talk about and everything gets over-analyzed. This was the time of year when Marcus Banks became a legendary point guard.
A month ago, I suspect that about 40% of the posters in this forum would have struggled to tell you what KCP stood for and what team he played for. Now we have someone seriously suggesting that he's a max player. Okay. |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14911
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | We're getting into the dead zone of the off-season, where there is really nothing to talk about and everything gets over-analyzed. This was the time of year when Marcus Banks became a legendary point guard.
A month ago, I suspect that about 40% of the posters in this forum would have struggled to tell you what KCP stood for and what team he played for. Now we have someone seriously suggesting that he's a max player. Okay. |
Happens to the best of us 
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LakerDYnasty72
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Everything is predicated on if we're winning, he plays well, and fits in. It sounds like he and Ball are a match made in basketball heaven. I believe Detroit originally offered him 80mil for 5years, and of course he declined it. If that's the number, and again if he plays well, he'll be looking for a starting point of 20mil, or more.
Here are the "ifs". If he plays well, and fits so well with Ball that to change it would be painful, and if we're winning, we'll have to really consider how to construct the best talent and fit. Most will be looking solely at the talent we could acquire, but we'd better be prudent to not tamper too much with a combination of players that are talented, fit well, and, again winning. |
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