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| Which backcourt is better? |
| Lonzo/Russell |
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19% |
[ 45 ] |
| Lonzo/KCP |
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80% |
[ 181 ] |
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| Total Votes : 226 |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21075
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 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | Why can't we just agree that the Lakers got better trading DLo this season.
Ball/Dlo/Ingram/Randle/Moz
(Clarkson/Deng/Zu/Nance/Nwamba/Brewer/#28)
IS NOT AS GOOD AS
Ball/KCP/Ingram/Randle/Lopez
(Clarkson/Deng/Zu/Nance/Kuz/Brewer/Hart/Bryant)
OK let say DLo plays well with Ball Offensively, Defensively would be a nightmare . That Team with MozDeng is the same group we have last year and we will be competing for the worse record this season again. Guess what we don't have our #1 Draft pick, Boston will more likely get better thanks to us. Plus we still have the MozDeng contract to deal with. Randle is RFA? Doubt any of our player will be an allstar level, maybe 2 more year. Not very eye pleasing to upcoming FA and DLo a year away from being RFA himself.
On the flipside, the Dlo trade, cleared way to KCP, better defender, can fill the lane and does not need the ball. Lopez opens the floor, give our lineup a go to guy down the stretch. Kuz showed he can compliment Ball real well. Our record should be a lot better, Boston will like be screwed. Flexibility to offer 2 max contract if needed. Else if everything click can offer good contract to Randle, KCP or Lopez (whoever fit our lineup best) and just add one max player.
Many will say that they should have traded clarkson or Randle with moz, but if the other team is asking for more as a FO you need to evaluate how does this affect the team moving forward and what moves you can do to offfset that move, we see the product by looking at our team right now. Getting rid of horrible contract is not easy as some believe without costing us picks or young players. Stretching 2 bad contract wont be good enough for 2 max contract 2018. |
I hope KCP lives up to expectations on defense. if he does that in itself will screw Boston on getting a pick from us. I'm having a hard time getting excited about KCP because he's only a one year rental. I hope you're right on him though. I'd like to see what we pick up for the long haul to title contender. This is where I hope we can pick up PG13 or somehow Hart turns into an excellent 2 way scoring guard. Or maybe KCP proves so good in our system he takes over SG for the long haul if PG13 stays in OKC. Who knows?
What I can agree with is that we're likely to be better than last year's team. In the "How many wins" threads I've been guessing 40 wins if everyone stays healthy, 35 wins with just average so-so luck. So from that perspective, you're probably right. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DanielKetch wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | DanielKetch wrote: | | PG13 wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
This looks very accurate to me.
Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months. |
But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets. |
That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick... |
  WHAT???!??? What. In. The. (bleep). Are you talking about??
I really like Kuzma, but guess what? I liked Hart even better! Sure, Kuzma had a great Summer League and that's what sold me on him, but Hart's a 2 way player who could easily prove the better of the two in the long run.
Where on Earth does that fit a 'fanboy' narrative? THEY SELECTED KUZMA BEFORE HART. THAT TELLS ME IF THEY COULD ONLY CHOOSE ONE, THEY'D HAVE CHOSEN KUZMA. Trading DLO allowed them to get Kuzma AND Hart. Hart being the incremental pick. Plus Bryant.
Good grief SMFH.. |
I hope you don't think I was calling you directly a "fanboy"
It also seems some have raised objection to using that term so I will refrain going forward. (As a side note, this is a new handle but I recall the days of "KLFs" and "Kobe Fanboys" so I thought this type of banter was still allowed...)
But if you read my past responses to this thread, I am scratching my head on how people who were anti-DLO trade are conveniently leaving out details of what exactly we got in the trade. The fact is we got 27th (Kuzma)+Lopez. But I personally like the trade without that. I would like the trade if we got Hart+Lopez, I would like the trade if we got T Bryant+Lopez, I would like the trade (less) if we got just Lopez + the ability to sign KCP and/or 2018 cap flexibility.
At the end of the day, this is the type of trade you cannot fully judge until a few years down the road, but I like what I see so far. |
Glad you clarified. Peace. Yeah I totally thought you pointed the 'fanboy' moniker my direction. And yeah that's got a bad vibe to it on LG these days. Right now I'm sold on Ball, to the point he renders a lot of DLO discussion a moot point. I miss DLO's creativity, but not nearly as much as I like Ball. Next on my list is can Kuzma continue to shoot like he did in Summer League, because I completely missed reading about his offensive explosiveness in any pre-draft reports. Mind blown on Kuzma, in a good way. I assumed he'd be a liability on offense. Wow. Hart - I still think he's going to be a keeper in an already crowded field of young players on this team. I think he's a piece of transitioning this team to a good defensive squad.
I agree with the comment I bolded in particular. I'm very optimistic right now. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Russell is just a shooter without much defense. He's like a Matt Thomas. Thomas could be a better pure shooter than Russell is. |
But Russell is taller, longer, posts up little guards, has handles, can create midrange shots, and elbow jumpers, draw fouls, etc. Other than that, yeah, they're the same. Brooklyn messed up big time, the real Matt Thomas could of been had for free. But they went and straddled themselves with Moz's contract and gave away Kuzma. Those idiots! |
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70sdude
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Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| I don't care which combo could be better; one of the pairings isn't going to materialize. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Russell is just a shooter without much defense. He's like a Matt Thomas. Thomas could be a better pure shooter than Russell is. |
But Russell is taller, longer, posts up little guards, has handles, can create midrange shots, and elbow jumpers, draw fouls, etc. Other than that, yeah, they're the same. Brooklyn messed up big time, the real Matt Thomas could of been had for free. But they went and straddled themselves with Moz's contract and gave away Kuzma. Those idiots! |
DLo has talent, that is the reason why they were able to unload Mos's BAD contract.
If DLo was still on the team, these would be the questions
Will he content on being the starting SG and backup PG
Will he be able to defend
Is he willing to keep the ball moving
Has he made other players better
Will he improve his handles to not lose the ball or make better decisions
The Nets will have the same questions since his role will be very similar with Jeremy Lin as the starting PG |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| The results suggest that the Lakers have upgraded at the guard position. I am looking forward to seeing it unfold on the court. |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7922
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Russell is just a shooter without much defense. He's like a Matt Thomas. Thomas could be a better pure shooter than Russell is. |
But Russell is taller, longer, posts up little guards, has handles, can create midrange shots, and elbow jumpers, draw fouls, etc. Other than that, yeah, they're the same. Brooklyn messed up big time, the real Matt Thomas could of been had for free. But they went and straddled themselves with Moz's contract and gave away Kuzma. Those idiots! |
DLo has talent, that is the reason why they were able to unload Mos's BAD contract.
If DLo was still on the team, these would be the questions
Will he content on being the starting SG and backup PG
Will he be able to defend
Is he willing to keep the ball moving
Has he made other players better
Will he improve his handles to not lose the ball or make better decisions
The Nets will have the same questions since his role will be very similar with Jeremy Lin as the starting PG |
Aren't we asking the same questions about KCP?
Will he be able to defend?
Analytics say KCP is below average. Still a question until it happens.
Is he willing to keep the ball moving?
KCP likes to shoot. He can pass, but will he do it as much as Dlo would on a pace and space team?
Has he made other players better?
Debate could go either way on KCP
Will he improve his handles to not lose the ball or make better decisions
Both Dlo and KCP are fine as SG's in this category. |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Russell is just a shooter without much defense. He's like a Matt Thomas. Thomas could be a better pure shooter than Russell is. |
But Russell is taller, longer, posts up little guards, has handles, can create midrange shots, and elbow jumpers, draw fouls, etc. Other than that, yeah, they're the same. Brooklyn messed up big time, the real Matt Thomas could of been had for free. But they went and straddled themselves with Moz's contract and gave away Kuzma. Those idiots! |
DLo has talent, that is the reason why they were able to unload Mos's BAD contract.
If DLo was still on the team, these would be the questions
Will he content on being the starting SG and backup PG
Will he be able to defend
Is he willing to keep the ball moving
Has he made other players better
Will he improve his handles to not lose the ball or make better decisions
The Nets will have the same questions since his role will be very similar with Jeremy Lin as the starting PG |
Aren't we asking the same questions about KCP?
Will he be able to defend?
Analytics say KCP is below average. Still a question until it happens.
Is he willing to keep the ball moving?
KCP likes to shoot. He can pass, but will he do it as much as Dlo would on a pace and space team?
Has he made other players better?
Debate could go either way on KCP
Will he improve his handles to not lose the ball or make better decisions
Both Dlo and KCP are fine as SG's in this category. |
Yeah, I think it's pretty much a wash. In terms of chemistry and fit maybe you give the edge to KCP right now, but who knows. |
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Car54
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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | DLO needs the ball in his hands to be effective and engaged in the game. For some reason I see DLO as a poor man's Kenny Anderson in terms of his projected career path. Has had nagging injuries.
KCP should be more effective off the ball for the Lakers and a vastly superior defender. And with Lonzo having the ball in his hands most of time, that's probably a better fit. He's stayed healthy his whole career.
Lakers will need someone to step up and take big shots though. DLO was the guy for the team last year when he was healthy. Overall, KCP is the better fit right now for what the team needs. |
This post is laughable considering DLO was probably our best guy off the ball last season
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Car54
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I love the KCP signing and hope he ends up being a near Allstar of not an Allstar. But you're out of your freaking basketball minds if you think DLO wouldn't have shined more than any other Laker with the help of Ball.
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Or we could have traded DLO at the deadline or next season and gotten less for him. By then Lopez would have been traded. Brooklyn's capspace for Moz spent. No Kuzma (I don't care about the 28th pick, that's not where we picked him). And don't be so sure that DLO & Ball would be a match made in heaven. There are quite a few things that could go wrong there too. The only negative in my view is that we wouldn't have to worry about finding a second playmaker while Ball is resting. |
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laker50
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Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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The pairing of Lonzo/KCP is better defensively.
But the pairing of Lonzo/DLO would have been better offensively.
Obviously you have to play defense in the NBA. And to pair two offensive minded but poor defense guards would not have been smart.
As usual, Magic and Rob seems to make the right decisions. |
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LAkers 4 Life
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | DLO needs the ball in his hands to be effective and engaged in the game. For some reason I see DLO as a poor man's Kenny Anderson in terms of his projected career path. Has had nagging injuries.
KCP should be more effective off the ball for the Lakers and a vastly superior defender. And with Lonzo having the ball in his hands most of time, that's probably a better fit. He's stayed healthy his whole career.
Lakers will need someone to step up and take big shots though. DLO was the guy for the team last year when he was healthy. Overall, KCP is the better fit right now for what the team needs. |
This post is laughable considering DLO was probably our best guy off the ball last season |
What did he do off the ball that was so great other than receiving passes at certain spots at the three-point line? DLO is best when he's got the ball in his hands. He showed the ability to post up, but I don't know if it's a system issue or something else where he hardly showed that skill more often. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| socalsp3 wrote: | With Kcp Offense is only slightly less but Defense is so much better. I don't even want to think Lonzo or DLo trying chase lillard or curry around screens.
Also longterm you have little chance of getting 2 max here without being able to get rid of one of mozdeng |
Slightly less?
Oh boy.
Until KCP starts showing burst in PnR situations and starts throwing lobs to Lonzo, it's not "slightly less."
I really hate the idea of what Laker passing would look like with Kuzma, DAR, and Ball. Goodness, there'd be space on the floor.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | With Kcp Offense is only slightly less but Defense is so much better. I don't even want to think Lonzo or DLo trying chase lillard or curry around screens.
Also longterm you have little chance of getting 2 max here without being able to get rid of one of mozdeng |
Slightly less?
Oh boy.
Until KCP starts showing burst in PnR situations and starts throwing lobs to Lonzo, it's not "slightly less."
I really hate the idea of what Laker passing would look like with Kuzma, DAR, and Ball. Goodness, there'd be space on the floor. |
You were banking on DAR throwing lobs? That would be new for him. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | With Kcp Offense is only slightly less but Defense is so much better. I don't even want to think Lonzo or DLo trying chase lillard or curry around screens.
Also longterm you have little chance of getting 2 max here without being able to get rid of one of mozdeng |
Slightly less?
Oh boy.
Until KCP starts showing burst in PnR situations and starts throwing lobs to Lonzo, it's not "slightly less."
I really hate the idea of what Laker passing would look like with Kuzma, DAR, and Ball. Goodness, there'd be space on the floor. |
You were banking on DAR throwing lobs? That would be new for him. |
Well, he'd actually play with a teammate that's on par that plays equally as well, off ball. Can't say that of well... the entire team?
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socalsp3
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | socalsp3 wrote: | With Kcp Offense is only slightly less but Defense is so much better. I don't even want to think Lonzo or DLo trying chase lillard or curry around screens.
Also longterm you have little chance of getting 2 max here without being able to get rid of one of mozdeng |
Slightly less?
Oh boy.
Until KCP starts showing burst in PnR situations and starts throwing lobs to Lonzo, it's not "slightly less."
I really hate the idea of what Laker passing would look like with Kuzma, DAR, and Ball. Goodness, there'd be space on the floor. |
You lose some halfcourt playmaking but Kcp is more explosive in transition. I can't see DLo outrunning anybody for Zo's touchdown bombs.
BI will pick up the slack in the halfcourt this year setting up Zo. |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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wow people are putting KCP at some unfair expectations. There's a reason why the Pistons let him loose to sign someone else at his position and why no other team offered him a decent multi-year contract and why he was basically our plan Z after all else failed.
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socalsp3
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | wow people are putting KCP at some unfair expectations. There's a reason why the Pistons let him loose to sign someone else at his position and why no other team offered him a decent multi-year contract and why he was basically our plan Z after all else failed. |
He declined a $80 4 yr deal from pistons midseason. |
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DanielKetch
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| socalsp3 wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | wow people are putting KCP at some unfair expectations. There's a reason why the Pistons let him loose to sign someone else at his position and why no other team offered him a decent multi-year contract and why he was basically our plan Z after all else failed. |
He declined a $80 4 yr deal from pistons midseason. |
They "let him loose" in favor of Avery Bradley, they are actually similar players, but Avery is a better all around player at this point. KCP has more size / athleticism, which gives him more defensive upside. I think he was just what this squad needed and I look forward to seeing him play with Lonzo and Ingram. |
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Car54
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | DLO needs the ball in his hands to be effective and engaged in the game. For some reason I see DLO as a poor man's Kenny Anderson in terms of his projected career path. Has had nagging injuries.
KCP should be more effective off the ball for the Lakers and a vastly superior defender. And with Lonzo having the ball in his hands most of time, that's probably a better fit. He's stayed healthy his whole career.
Lakers will need someone to step up and take big shots though. DLO was the guy for the team last year when he was healthy. Overall, KCP is the better fit right now for what the team needs. |
This post is laughable considering DLO was probably our best guy off the ball last season |
What did he do off the ball that was so great other than receiving passes at certain spots at the three-point line? DLO is best when he's got the ball in his hands. He showed the ability to post up, but I don't know if it's a system issue or something else where he hardly showed that skill more often. |
Question for you is what else would you have him do off the ball on the offensive side? He posted up every time he had a smaller defender on him. DLO knew how to take advantage of smaller defenders.
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lewis
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo + KCP should be better on defense and slightly worse on offense. Since we need all the improvment we can get on defense I voted for KCP + Lonzo |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| laker50 wrote: | The pairing of Lonzo/KCP is better defensively.
But the pairing of Lonzo/DLO would have been better offensively.
Obviously you have to play defense in the NBA. And to pair two offensive minded but poor defense guards would not have been smart.
As usual, Magic and Rob seems to make the right decisions. |
I voted Lonzo/DLO, but I agree with your logic considering how much this team needs better defense. I've yet to see KCP play, which is why I chose DLO. I'm tempering my expectations, but I hope you're right. |
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Gatekeeper
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: |
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This upcoming year. Lonzo/KCP. Beyond that. I don't know. KCP won't be here if we get 2 max players. And we would've only had space for 1 max player if Mozgov was still here.
So long term I'm glad we made the trade as well. I liked DLO. But not more than a 2 max players roster.
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