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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17065
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Annihilator wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Ball
Ingram
George
LBJ
ANYBODY
Wins the NBA Championship next year if all are healthy.
Dubs are a great team . . . but 71 years of NBA History show that it is extremely hard make 4 straight Finals.
1981-85 Lakers made 4 in a row, winning 2
1956-65 Celtics made 10 in a row, winning 9
That is it. Injuries, players leaving for free agency, etc. |
that team likely doesnt even make it to conf finals let alone good enough to beat the Warriors. Ball and Ingram need 2-3 more years MINIMUM. |
If Ball and Ingram will need 3 more seasons, then we wasted the #2 pick three straight drafts.
We didn't pick these dudes 2nd overall without the expectation that they would mature on a faster curve. Russell didn't and we moved him. Other 19/20 year olds have made huge leaps/been All Stars in their second seasons. Not usually - but when you take one at the top of the draft, they should hit early.
In any event, we will know by February. |
I am not sure that I agree that the expectation is that the these players will mature on a faster curve and help the Lakers to a championship faster than 3 seasons. After Kobe was drafted and Shaq was signed as a free agent in 1996, the Lakers didn't mature into true title contenders until 2000 (they were swept out of the Conference Finals in 1998 as well as the Conference Semifinals in 1999). I don't expect the three #2 draft choices to move the 2015 depleted Lakers faster than how Shaq and Kobe moved the 1996 team. Adding PG and LBJ, of course, changes the dynamics significantly. |
I'm talking about PLAYER maturity - not TEAM maturity.
A player drafted in the top 3 is a player you shouldn't have to wait on for 4 years to develop. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Annihilator wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Ball
Ingram
George
LBJ
ANYBODY
Wins the NBA Championship next year if all are healthy.
Dubs are a great team . . . but 71 years of NBA History show that it is extremely hard make 4 straight Finals.
1981-85 Lakers made 4 in a row, winning 2
1956-65 Celtics made 10 in a row, winning 9
That is it. Injuries, players leaving for free agency, etc. |
that team likely doesnt even make it to conf finals let alone good enough to beat the Warriors. Ball and Ingram need 2-3 more years MINIMUM. |
If Ball and Ingram will need 3 more seasons, then we wasted the #2 pick three straight drafts.
We didn't pick these dudes 2nd overall without the expectation that they would mature on a faster curve. Russell didn't and we moved him. Other 19/20 year olds have made huge leaps/been All Stars in their second seasons. Not usually - but when you take one at the top of the draft, they should hit early.
In any event, we will know by February. |
I am not sure that I agree that the expectation is that the these players will mature on a faster curve and help the Lakers to a championship faster than 3 seasons. After Kobe was drafted and Shaq was signed as a free agent in 1996, the Lakers didn't mature into true title contenders until 2000 (they were swept out of the Conference Finals in 1998 as well as the Conference Semifinals in 1999). I don't expect the three #2 draft choices to move the 2015 depleted Lakers faster than how Shaq and Kobe moved the 1996 team. Adding PG and LBJ, of course, changes the dynamics significantly. |
I'm talking about PLAYER maturity - not TEAM maturity.
A player drafted in the top 3 is a player you shouldn't have to wait on for 4 years to develop. |
I was talking about PLAYER maturity too.
When drafting, teams often look for long-term results over short-term outcomes--otherwise, we would see a lot more 4-year college players drafted in the lottery. Success in the NBA comes from collecting superstars. Drafting a player whom the team can develop into a superstar in 4 years may well be better than drafting a player who hits his below superstar ceiling in a year or two. I think a lot of teams looking back at the 2011 draft would love to have selected Kawhi Leonard in the top three even though it took him four years (or so) to develop into the player that he is now. To me, his first three years were marginally good but not fantastic. _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
--Anonymous |
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17656
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Vic5150 wrote: | DangeRuss wrote: | 2019 wrote: | rock0100 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think it will likely come down to 4 iterations:
1. LBJ/PG13
2. PG13/Boogie
3. PG13/WB
4. PG13/split max b/w KCP/Lopez. |
I think it will either be LBJ/PG13/Boogie (via Julius sign and trade) or PG13/Boogie with Julius resigned.
I do not see Westbrook coming now that we have Lonzo. |
Plan A: LeBron + PG + convince Lopez to take a light deal
Plan B: LeBron + Cousins
Plan C: PG + Cousins
We'd be lucky to end up with any iteration of the guys. LeBron is definitely the prize that automatically makes us a contender.
If it's PG + DMC, then sign Randle via bird rights, go over the cap, and hope that we continue to find 2nd round gems and find quality free agents willing to sign on the cheap. |
Your plan C is my plan A. I prefer that combo to any others listed. |
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Plan C has been my plan since the start of last summer free agency and is why I hated the MozDeng deals so much. Even so, plan C could have still been doable without trading DLO to dump Moz.
Also, I never thought of this, but if we are able to dump Deng somehow with 0 coming back and keep Randle's rights, we could possibly S&T Randle for Cousins (who I agree wouldn't be the best fit with Bron, but the Lakers are all about stars)
Cousins
LeBron
Ingram
PG13
Ball
Zu/T.Bryant
Nance
Kuzma
Hart _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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KingKobe20 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 18577 Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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RI Laker Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 7135
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Westbrook hasn't resigned yet. Maybe him and George are already talking about going home. |
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ratra_1211 Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 Posts: 786
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:48 am Post subject: |
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KingKobe20 wrote: | As much as I'd love Boogie on our squad anyone else concerned he wouldn't be able to get along with Zo?
He did say in a interview once that he'd prefer drafting Deaaron Fox over Lonzo.
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its that kentucky connection i think |
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Chad09 Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 6738 Location: Studio City
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:02 am Post subject: |
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RI Laker wrote: | Westbrook hasn't resigned yet. Maybe him and George are already talking about going home. |
Its gonna be crazy if he hasn't signed near the TD. PG is not going to give any commitment. |
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AshesToAshes Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009 Posts: 4837
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Theory on Bron IF rumors are true:
1) tell PG not to go there
2) jumpstart kyrie by leaking the trade request
3) is the cav's owner the type to pay 3-4 superstars to compete? No, he fired the GM that was trying todo just that
Is lebron forcing potential max players away so he can take the cav's hostage to sign him for uber-super-max retirement contract? There is no other single player they could sign to maintain ticket revenues. _________________ KOBE!!! |
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Lonzo-Lite Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 5085
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Damn, my work has this site blocked for some weird reason _________________ Tacos |
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32 Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Posts: 73038
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: |
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#NotFacts people! 🗣Boooo!! Get another source. 🤦🏾♂️. #EnjoyingMySummer #YouDoTheSame 😁😁😁
https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/889863906566348800 _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Have you guys checked LeBron's Twitter profile?
Quote: | Amongst La Familia! |
LA. Los Angeles baby!!!!
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Krispy Kreme Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003 Posts: 12252
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: |
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_________________ Dominating every day. |
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Krispy Kreme Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003 Posts: 12252
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | Krispy Kreme wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: | 32 wrote: | Kyrie says he wants to be the man. He will never be the number one player on a championship-caliber team. He's not that good. |
I don't know about that. He completely outplayed Steph in the finals, and if you were to give him the right team, the right situation that compliments his abilities, he's likely an MVP candidate. We're talking about one of the most skilled players in the league. What you think about Kyrie is probably what you thought about Curry before Kerr came along. Except Kyrie is already a proven champion. |
You're probably saying that because you probably see a Russell Westbrook type performance from Kyrie in terms of high usage.
But Kyrie is a ball hogging ISO player who is shoot-first. Like I said, many players like that do not play team ball well, and rarely lead their teams deep into the playoffs. There's been exceptions like Iverson back in 01', but it's not common to have success with that formula.
His best bet is to go to SA and swallow his pride and just close out games for them, like he did with Lebron. |
I don't know about that. He's just as talented offensively as the 2x MVP Curry. Curry wasn't Curry until he got into the right system. Going to SA wouldn't be swallowing his pride, it's exactly the type of system that would allow him the same leap that Curry took when Kerr came in. That team is perfect for what he wants. He wouldn't just be the closer, he'd lead them
in scoring. |
In terms of comparing him to Curry. Curry is a better passer, and a better team player. They both stink on defense. Curry is a better shooter. They both have great handles. Kyrie is a better finisher at the rim and can create his own shot better as well.
By swallowing his pride, I mean going to a team where he wouldn't be the "man". Popazit preaches team ball. Kyrie isn't going to get high usage/volume on the Spurs. Don't forget about KL. So, if he wants to swallow his pride and and play team ball, then that's great for him.
Kyrie has a scorer's mentality like Kobe. He's unstoppable. Curry is wired differently. It's like when Kobe would try and play team ball. He was good at it, but at the end of the day, he was a scorer. _________________ Dominating every day. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | Vic5150 wrote: | DangeRuss wrote: | 2019 wrote: | rock0100 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think it will likely come down to 4 iterations:
1. LBJ/PG13
2. PG13/Boogie
3. PG13/WB
4. PG13/split max b/w KCP/Lopez. |
I think it will either be LBJ/PG13/Boogie (via Julius sign and trade) or PG13/Boogie with Julius resigned.
I do not see Westbrook coming now that we have Lonzo. |
Plan A: LeBron + PG + convince Lopez to take a light deal
Plan B: LeBron + Cousins
Plan C: PG + Cousins
We'd be lucky to end up with any iteration of the guys. LeBron is definitely the prize that automatically makes us a contender.
If it's PG + DMC, then sign Randle via bird rights, go over the cap, and hope that we continue to find 2nd round gems and find quality free agents willing to sign on the cheap. |
Your plan C is my plan A. I prefer that combo to any others listed. |
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Plan C has been my plan since the start of last summer free agency and is why I hated the MozDeng deals so much. Even so, plan C could have still been doable without trading DLO to dump Moz.
Also, I never thought of this, but if we are able to dump Deng somehow with 0 coming back and keep Randle's rights, we could possibly S&T Randle for Cousins (who I agree wouldn't be the best fit with Bron, but the Lakers are all about stars)
Cousins
LeBron
Ingram
PG13
Ball
Zu/T.Bryant
Nance
Kuzma
Hart |
And Randle would want to go to NO because......? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: |
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RI Laker wrote: | Westbrook hasn't resigned yet. Maybe him and George are already talking about going home. |
Westbrook has no reason to sign an extension now. All it would give him is one more season. More than likely he is using the extension to make sure OKC keeps trying to win. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:05 am Post subject: |
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AshesToAshes wrote: | Theory on Bron IF rumors are true:
1) tell PG not to go there
2) jumpstart kyrie by leaking the trade request
3) is the cav's owner the type to pay 3-4 superstars to compete? No, he fired the GM that was trying todo just that
Is lebron forcing potential max players away so he can take the cav's hostage to sign him for uber-super-max retirement contract? There is no other single player they could sign to maintain ticket revenues. |
Is Lebron shooting for an ownership stake when he retires? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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rock0100 Star Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 5387
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: |
And Randle would want to go to NO because......? |
To get a nice contract. To play with Anthony Davis.
He is restricted. Restricted free agency is easy as regular free agency. Look at Noe this year. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Ball
Ingram
George
LBJ
ANYBODY
Wins the NBA Championship next year if all are healthy.
Dubs are a great team . . . but 71 years of NBA History show that it is extremely hard make 4 straight Finals.
1981-85 Lakers made 4 in a row, winning 2
1956-65 Celtics made 10 in a row, winning 9
That is it. Injuries, players leaving for free agency, etc. |
Would you put money on that, I wouldn't. You're not taking into account a diluted league, and whereas ego gets in the way of previous teams that could have done it such as the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, these Warriors are something the NBA has never seen before in terms of selflessness. Lastly, you mentioned players leaving via free agency as part of the reasons why it's so rare. Well, hello! Not only did the Warriors not lose any of their big 3, they added, not just an all-star, but THE SECOND BEST player on the planet.
So yeah, history hasn't seen this. So you can toss history out of the equation. |
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Krispy Kreme Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003 Posts: 12252
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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We have some people who think the Rockets will be better than LBJ/George/Lonzo.
That's what we are dealing with here. _________________ Dominating every day. |
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audioaxes Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 12573
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Annihilator wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Ball
Ingram
George
LBJ
ANYBODY
Wins the NBA Championship next year if all are healthy.
Dubs are a great team . . . but 71 years of NBA History show that it is extremely hard make 4 straight Finals.
1981-85 Lakers made 4 in a row, winning 2
1956-65 Celtics made 10 in a row, winning 9
That is it. Injuries, players leaving for free agency, etc. |
that team likely doesnt even make it to conf finals let alone good enough to beat the Warriors. Ball and Ingram need 2-3 more years MINIMUM. |
If Ball and Ingram will need 3 more seasons, then we wasted the #2 pick three straight drafts.
We didn't pick these dudes 2nd overall without the expectation that they would mature on a faster curve. Russell didn't and we moved him. Other 19/20 year olds have made huge leaps/been All Stars in their second seasons. Not usually - but when you take one at the top of the draft, they should hit early.
In any event, we will know by February. |
I am not sure that I agree that the expectation is that the these players will mature on a faster curve and help the Lakers to a championship faster than 3 seasons. After Kobe was drafted and Shaq was signed as a free agent in 1996, the Lakers didn't mature into true title contenders until 2000 (they were swept out of the Conference Finals in 1998 as well as the Conference Semifinals in 1999). I don't expect the three #2 draft choices to move the 2015 depleted Lakers faster than how Shaq and Kobe moved the 1996 team. Adding PG and LBJ, of course, changes the dynamics significantly. |
I'm talking about PLAYER maturity - not TEAM maturity.
A player drafted in the top 3 is a player you shouldn't have to wait on for 4 years to develop. |
I'm not saying they will be garbage players but you must definitely wait that much time for any young draftee to help us challenge the Warriors.
Lets just say Lebron+PG13 stand toe to toe with Duant+Curry....
do you really think Ball+Ingram will be able to hold their weight and stand toe to toe with the value Klay+Draymond bring to a team within 2 years???? _________________ (bleep) Kawhi |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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audioaxes wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Annihilator wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Ball
Ingram
George
LBJ
ANYBODY
Wins the NBA Championship next year if all are healthy.
Dubs are a great team . . . but 71 years of NBA History show that it is extremely hard make 4 straight Finals.
1981-85 Lakers made 4 in a row, winning 2
1956-65 Celtics made 10 in a row, winning 9
That is it. Injuries, players leaving for free agency, etc. |
that team likely doesnt even make it to conf finals let alone good enough to beat the Warriors. Ball and Ingram need 2-3 more years MINIMUM. |
If Ball and Ingram will need 3 more seasons, then we wasted the #2 pick three straight drafts.
We didn't pick these dudes 2nd overall without the expectation that they would mature on a faster curve. Russell didn't and we moved him. Other 19/20 year olds have made huge leaps/been All Stars in their second seasons. Not usually - but when you take one at the top of the draft, they should hit early.
In any event, we will know by February. |
I am not sure that I agree that the expectation is that the these players will mature on a faster curve and help the Lakers to a championship faster than 3 seasons. After Kobe was drafted and Shaq was signed as a free agent in 1996, the Lakers didn't mature into true title contenders until 2000 (they were swept out of the Conference Finals in 1998 as well as the Conference Semifinals in 1999). I don't expect the three #2 draft choices to move the 2015 depleted Lakers faster than how Shaq and Kobe moved the 1996 team. Adding PG and LBJ, of course, changes the dynamics significantly. |
I'm talking about PLAYER maturity - not TEAM maturity.
A player drafted in the top 3 is a player you shouldn't have to wait on for 4 years to develop. |
I'm not saying they will be garbage players but you must definitely wait that much time for any young draftee to help us challenge the Warriors.
Lets just say Lebron+PG13 stand toe to toe with Duant+Curry....
do you really think Ball+Ingram will be able to hold their weight and stand toe to toe with the value Klay+Draymond bring to a team within 2 years???? |
Yes |
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pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29016
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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AshesToAshes wrote: | Theory on Bron IF rumors are true:
1) tell PG not to go there
2) jumpstart kyrie by leaking the trade request
3) is the cav's owner the type to pay 3-4 superstars to compete? No, he fired the GM that was trying todo just that
Is lebron forcing potential max players away so he can take the cav's hostage to sign him for uber-super-max retirement contract? There is no other single player they could sign to maintain ticket revenues. |
Feels like he could get that with Kyrie there. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | RI Laker wrote: | Westbrook hasn't resigned yet. Maybe him and George are already talking about going home. |
Westbrook has no reason to sign an extension now. All it would give him is one more season. More than likely he is using the extension to make sure OKC keeps trying to win. |
You were saying something very different a couple months back |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | RI Laker wrote: | Westbrook hasn't resigned yet. Maybe him and George are already talking about going home. |
Westbrook has no reason to sign an extension now. All it would give him is one more season. More than likely he is using the extension to make sure OKC keeps trying to win. |
You're kidding, Right, Ventura? As of today, he is signed for this season and holds a PO for next (1+1). DVPE would mean effectively that he has 5+1 totaling (IIRC) around $235mln (estimated based on the future cap projections that will adjust actual figure).
How does it give him one more season _________________ Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13, DeMar DeRozan. Hit jackpot with DH-12 at the right time |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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rock0100 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: |
And Randle would want to go to NO because......? |
To get a nice contract. To play with Anthony Davis.
He is restricted. Restricted free agency is easy as regular free agency. Look at Noe this year. |
He could make that money at a destination of his choice. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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