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jankobe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject:

LakerBaker wrote:
Ive ran the numbers a million times, here is the breakdown the best I can give it...

Based on a 102 million cap...

We will need to either renounce our rights to Randle (12.5 million cap hold) OR trade Clarkson for an expiring contract

we would need to trade Deng for an expiring contract (very unlikely) OR stretch him to create more cap space.

If we stretch Deng we would also need to renounce our rights to TWO of either Ennis, Bryant, or Zubac

Assuming we stretch Deng, we would at that point have just over 30 million to spend on free agents. We would have a little more than 7 million more in cap space if we were able to trade Deng for an expiring contract without having to waive him. In that case we probably wouldn't have to renounce Ennis, Bryant, or Zubac. If we could trade Deng for an expiring contract we could keep Ennis, Bryant, and Zubac and have around 65 million to spend on free agents.

Hope that makes some sense...

My dream situation would be to trade Clarkson and Deng along with picks for expiring contracts, sign 2 max free agents, and keep Randle.

After all of this, if we dont renew Brooks Lopez also, then how much money do we have in 2018?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:32 am    Post subject:

Lets say miracle happened and we able to trade Deng, Randle and Clarkson for expirings. With signing PG and Lebron at max contracts how much money leave at the cap?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:37 am    Post subject:

Palin wrote:
Lets say miracle happened and we able to trade Deng, Randle and Clarkson for expirings. With signing PG and Lebron at max contracts how much money leave at the cap?


Around $12 million. If we sign PG13 and Cousins we would have around $18 million.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject:

LakerBaker wrote:
Ive ran the numbers a million times, here is the breakdown the best I can give it...

Based on a 102 million cap...

We will need to either renounce our rights to Randle (12.5 million cap hold) OR trade Clarkson for an expiring contract

we would need to trade Deng for an expiring contract (very unlikely) OR stretch him to create more cap space.

If we stretch Deng we would also need to renounce our rights to TWO of either Ennis, Bryant, or Zubac

Assuming we stretch Deng, we would at that point have just over 30 million to spend on free agents. We would have a little more than 7 million more in cap space if we were able to trade Deng for an expiring contract without having to waive him. In that case we probably wouldn't have to renounce Ennis, Bryant, or Zubac. If we could trade Deng for an expiring contract we could keep Ennis, Bryant, and Zubac and have around 65 million to spend on free agents.

Hope that makes some sense...

My dream situation would be to trade Clarkson and Deng along with picks for expiring contracts, sign 2 max free agents, and keep Randle.



That's a nice easy summary. When you consider roster holds and the young core (minus Ennis) you're looking at about 22M in your best case scenario dumping the big 2 contracts (almost 35M with Randle) up against a 102M cap.

Dream wise, they have a great opportunity to get a 15/10/4 guy in Randle if he improves and plays more than his 28mpg last year. A big part of that is being able to rotate on D and elevate to a below average rim protector. That gives you your 4/5 that fits into any max scenario for just a 12M hit (no matter if they're paying him 20M+).

7.2M is tolerable dead money, but the question is how much of a deal breaker is it for FA candidates. If LBJ really wants to build a dynasty, will he take a little less and then opt out to get a bigger deal in 2yrs? If George and Cousins are the guys, stretching Deng and dumping JC puts you at 102M-42M= 60M to split between the two. James is the best player, but if George and Cousins is settling I'm hyped.

The big variable is going to be what the market is for dumping Deng. A year later into his deal should make it easier but teams have to slow their spending with the cap not jumping, plus prior deals. I think if JC has a Lou Will type year you should be able to swap your lowest 2nd for him and a low 1st from the right team.

Then do you take that 1st with your own protected 1st to dump Deng, or does James take a little less to package those picks and another green prospect for a solid vet 6th man/fringe starter? I still like this scenario if it can happen...

Lo Ball/(Room X vet)
George/Hart/vet min
Ingram/Kuzma/vet min
Randle/Nance
Cousins/Zubac/Bryant
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:09 am    Post subject:

Laker Junkie wrote:
Could we technically stretch both JC and Deng next summer? I dont support that move, but there arent many teams with cap space that can absorb JC without sending any salary back.


Yes. But why?

The rule is the aggregate stretched amount for any one season cannot exceed 15% of the total salary cap for the season.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


He's discounting some yet-to-be-finalized trade or buyout-stretching or is no good in simple math.
2 max space (including Lebron) is 67 and we don't have it.


Wow I love Pelinka and Magic but if the GM who's a former agent is wrong on the numbers....doesn't look too good. And on top of it he said we're the only team in the league that can sign 2 max.


We would have to:

1. stretch Deng
2. trade JC for nothing
3. renounce Randle.

That would get us to 67m.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:13 am    Post subject:

rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
King Randle wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


He's discounting some yet-to-be-finalized trade or buyout-stretching or is no good in simple math.
2 max space (including Lebron) is 67 and we don't have it.


Wow I love Pelinka and Magic but if the GM who's a former agent is wrong on the numbers....doesn't look too good. And on top of it he said we're the only team in the league that can sign 2 max.


Technically they do have the ability to open up two MAX slots without help from any other team. The nuclear option would be stretching Deng and JC and then waiving JR, Nance, and one of Zubac/Bryant. Of course it would leave you pretty barren with Zubac/Bryant as your starting center and Kuzma and Hart as your bench. You'd only have the room MLE and minimum to fill out at least 5 more roster spots.


That would not be good IMO. We will need Nance, and i would like to keep Jules as neither LBJ/PG13 want to play PF. Trying to recruit them here by telling them they could play PF may not be met positively.
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cital
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject:

What is the first year maximum salary that PG can get next summer?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject:

LakerBaker wrote:
What is the first year maximum salary that PG can get next summer?


Around 31m.
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rogers49
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject:

rock0100 wrote:
Palin wrote:
Lets say miracle happened and we able to trade Deng, Randle and Clarkson for expirings. With signing PG and Lebron at max contracts how much money leave at the cap?


Around $12 million. If we sign PG13 and Cousins we would have around $18 million.


True only if we renounce, too, all our expirings.
To get to 12 millions we would to unload: Deng, Clarkson, Randle, Lopez, Caldwell-Pope, Brewer, without getting any salary in return.
Doing so, we'll have on the books only Ball, Ingram, Hart, Kuzma, Ennis, Nance, Zubac and Bryant for combined 23,5 millions.
Add 67 for LBJ and PG = 90,5
11.5 left.
If we want to keep Randle, we'll have to dump one or two more of the smallest contracts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject:

I think the Lakers will put themselves into a situation where they can sign 2 max.....there's still moves to be made but I think they have the assets to do what they need to do.

It will be interesting to see how it all shakes up because if we are in that position a lot of the current lakers are going to be on the move
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


So are you saying the Lakers cannot construct a max contract that will make their first year look like a paycut and back loaded for the next 3 years? Case in point of the cap space is 103, can the 2 max get like 25 mill each the first year then get a good increase for the next 3 years. If Jules had a break out season and make his case as a small ball center then we need to resign him for the long haul.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.


I get you greenfrog but Pelinka spoke like those moves did not have to be made. We could go into next year as is and sign 2 max. That was my issue. It knowing or not acknowledging some moves have to be made to get the 2 max.


In the NBA , it's generally known that teams can created capspace with simple moves. The Celtics were over the cap when they went after Hayward, but they renounce some of their FA's and traded Bradley to get the room.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:37 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


So are you saying the Lakers cannot construct a max contract that will make their first year look like a paycut and back loaded for the next 3 years? Case in point of the cap space is 103, can the 2 max get like 25 mill each the first year then get a good increase for the next 3 years. If Jules had a break out season and make his case as a small ball center then we need to resign him for the long haul.


The % increases are capped at something like 5% upwards/downwards a season. I'm not 100% sure, but doubtful you can get LBJ/PG13 to take that steep of a paycut. Maybe 1-2m each but for LBJ that's an 11m/year cut and for PG13 a 6m/year cut in year 1.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:
King Randle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.


I get you greenfrog but Pelinka spoke like those moves did not have to be made. We could go into next year as is and sign 2 max. That was my issue. It knowing or not acknowledging some moves have to be made to get the 2 max.


In the NBA , it's generally known that teams can created capspace with simple moves. The Celtics were over the cap when they went after Hayward, but they renounce some of their FA's and traded Bradley to get the room.


If JC were as talented as Bradley (and on an expiring). Celts have kept a tight salary cap book and were flexible. We are sort of hamstrung no matter what. Deng and Jules/JC are all likely cap casualties. I hope we're not dumping guys like Nance as a cap casualty.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


There are different ways to skin the cat. If Clarkson have a pretty good year then he could easily be use to sign and trade one of the max. Case in point, if Cleveland does not want to lose Lebron for nothing, we can Clarkson for that case and some fillers and draft picks.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
King Randle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.


I get you greenfrog but Pelinka spoke like those moves did not have to be made. We could go into next year as is and sign 2 max. That was my issue. It knowing or not acknowledging some moves have to be made to get the 2 max.


In the NBA , it's generally known that teams can created capspace with simple moves. The Celtics were over the cap when they went after Hayward, but they renounce some of their FA's and traded Bradley to get the room.


If JC were as talented as Bradley (and on an expiring). Celts have kept a tight salary cap book and were flexible. We are sort of hamstrung no matter what. Deng and Jules/JC are all likely cap casualties. I hope we're not dumping guys like Nance as a cap casualty.


Nance may be a guy we dump because he is a restricted FA, in 2019, and we need his extra 1.5 to make the money work.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


There are different ways to skin the cat. If Clarkson have a pretty good year then he could easily be use to sign and trade one of the max. Case in point, if Cleveland does not want to lose Lebron for nothing, we can Clarkson for that case and some fillers and draft picks.


Even if you S&T JC, I've already factored in $0 coming back for a JC trade. We'd still be short on having enough to pay full maxes and keep Jules if we are pursuing LBJ/PG13.

The only likely scenario to keep Jules is if we pursue 2 7-9 year max players (31m max) and they take a 2m/year paycut to keep Jules (or at least enough for his cap hold).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject:

To get to 60 million under the cap all we need to do is:

Trade Clarkson OR Renounce Randle

Stretch Deng

and we might have to renounce Bryant and Ennis (but we could resign them after we sign our max players)

If we trade Clarkson AND renounce Randle that would give us an additional 12.5 million in cap space, so we would be around 72/73 million under the cap.

If we were able to trade Deng and not stretch him that would give us an additional 7+ million in cap space, so we could be as much as 80 million under the cap if all 3 of those things (trade Clarkson and Deng and renounce Randle) happened...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject:

LakerBaker wrote:
To get to 60 million under the cap all we need to do is:

Trade Clarkson OR Renounce Randle

Stretch Deng

and we might have to renounce Bryant and Ennis (but we could resign them after we sign our max players)

If we trade Clarkson AND renounce Randle that would give us an additional 12.5 million in cap space, so we would be around 72/73 million under the cap.

If we were able to trade Deng and not stretch him that would give us an additional 7+ million in cap space, so we could be as much as 80 million under the cap if all 3 of those things (trade Clarkson and Deng and renounce Randle) happened...


I'm just dubious about the trading Deng for $0 back proposition. If so, the cost will be staggering IMO. Probably 2 1sts with light to no protection.

I'm operating under the assumption that we will have to stretch him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


False on your first statement. If JC and Deng are traded, Randle can be kept with 2 max players. And if they have to take paycuts, there's nothing steep about it.

We've gone through this before yet you keep disregarding this scenario.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
CRoost wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


So are you saying the Lakers cannot construct a max contract that will make their first year look like a paycut and back loaded for the next 3 years? Case in point of the cap space is 103, can the 2 max get like 25 mill each the first year then get a good increase for the next 3 years. If Jules had a break out season and make his case as a small ball center then we need to resign him for the long haul.


The % increases are capped at something like 5% upwards/downwards a season. I'm not 100% sure, but doubtful you can get LBJ/PG13 to take that steep of a paycut. Maybe 1-2m each but for LBJ that's an 11m/year cut and for PG13 a 6m/year cut in year 1.


That's not going to happen, paycut is too steep. So NBA took out that Lin loophole with a sizable increase and put a 5% cap. I dunno what is the total max we can give them for 4 years but I don't think we need to pay the max in their first year. They can have that increment increase and still get the total max, right?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
CRoost wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


There are different ways to skin the cat. If Clarkson have a pretty good year then he could easily be use to sign and trade one of the max. Case in point, if Cleveland does not want to lose Lebron for nothing, we can Clarkson for that case and some fillers and draft picks.


Even if you S&T JC, I've already factored in $0 coming back for a JC trade. We'd still be short on having enough to pay full maxes and keep Jules if we are pursuing LBJ/PG13.

The only likely scenario to keep Jules is if we pursue 2 7-9 year max players (31m max) and they take a 2m/year paycut to keep Jules (or at least enough for his cap hold).


How about the fillers, Hart, Zu Bryant. This could total to 4 mil.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
King Randle wrote:
I'm sure lots of u heard Pelinka on espn. He said "We have $ for 2 max players next year (as we are set up right now) and we're the only team in the NBA that has 2 max spots." What gives?


1) Randle is gone
2) Deng is being stretched
3) Clarkson is being shopped for a bag of peanuts.

Clarkson is traded and so is Deng

Allows us to have LeBron + pg + randle


No.
Only if Lebron and PG take steep paycuts and don't get their maxes.
If they get their full max contracts, we can't have Randle (to do so, we'll need 80 millions out of 102 in free cap space).


Yeah. Steep paycuts or else Deng/JC/Jules are all gone if they want close to max deals.

Issue is a 10+ service year max (36m) and a 7-9 year max (31m). If we went after 2 7-9 year max players, possible.


False on your first statement. If JC and Deng are traded, Randle can be kept with 2 max players. And if they have to take paycuts, there's nothing steep about it.

We've gone through this before yet you keep disregarding this scenario.


No. You're not distinguishing b/w a 10+ year service and 7-9 year service max. If LBJ wants 36m, and PG13 wants 31m max, then no.

You are also assuming Deng is traded, which I'm doubtful about.

So, it's not "false" b/c we are operating under vastly different assumptions.
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