OFFICIAL KYLE KUZMANIA THREAD (tupac impressed, p416)
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socalsp3
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
A more fair argument is the Nets pick allowed us to draft hart and Bryant. I think Kuz was already the pick.


How do you know if Kuzma would still be there at 28? The nets or another team they traded the 27 pick to could have taken him.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
A more fair argument is the Nets pick allowed us to draft hart and Bryant. I think Kuz was already the pick.


How do you know if Kuzma would still be there at 28? The nets or another team they traded the 27 pick to could have taken him.


I highly doubt it. He was ranked in the 40s in most drafts. I'm pretty sure we would have him at 28 instead of 27. What is fair is to say we wouldn't have a hart and Bryant.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

If there were 5-10 likely picks at that Nets pick, then the chance of Kuz being there for us with our original pick was probably about 80% or so. The highest any public board had him was I think 16, but that was the lone anomaly. Good chance you could have got him with our pick, but we'll never know unless someone leaks what the Nets draft board looked like. You've got to factor that asset into the Nets trade equation somehow, even if it's 80% likely we would have gotten him anyway.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
If there were 5-10 likely picks at that Nets pick, then the chance of Kuz being there for us with our original pick was probably about 80% or so. The highest any public board had him was I think 16, but that was the lone anomaly. Good chance you could have got him with our pick, but we'll never know unless someone leaks what the Nets draft board looked like. You've got to factor that asset into the Nets trade equation somehow, even if it's 80% likely we would have gotten him anyway.
i

My point is that of all the pros/cons of the trade it really shouldn't be accorded too much weight.
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dao
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
A more fair argument is the Nets pick allowed us to draft hart and Bryant. I think Kuz was already the pick.


How do you know if Kuzma would still be there at 28? The nets or another team they traded the 27 pick to could have taken him.


I highly doubt it. He was ranked in the 40s in most drafts. I'm pretty sure we would have him at 28 instead of 27. What is fair is to say we wouldn't have a hart and Bryant.
or a KCP. Or a Lopez.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject:

dao wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
A more fair argument is the Nets pick allowed us to draft hart and Bryant. I think Kuz was already the pick.


How do you know if Kuzma would still be there at 28? The nets or another team they traded the 27 pick to could have taken him.


I highly doubt it. He was ranked in the 40s in most drafts. I'm pretty sure we would have him at 28 instead of 27. What is fair is to say we wouldn't have a hart and Bryant.
or a KCP. Or a Lopez.


We're going down a slippery slope. There are opportunity costs to everything and alternatives. It's not as if KCP is signed long term.
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NBALakerLegends
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject:

In 5 years I think most people will look at the trade as Kuz, Brook for Moz and DLo because that's the technicality of it no matter how you spin it.

We will probably never know how the Nets draft board looks. There is a chance that he Nets could have taken him due to him being a stretch 4 and factoring that that was a need of the Nets with Atkinson's system
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject:

I see it as we used the Nets pick to get Kuzma. The guy we moved down to draft was Jason Hart, and we picked up Bryant as the reward for trading down.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:38 am    Post subject:

Magic wanted more picks, he is aware that we have to move more young assets to be in position to go after two max players, but he is also aware about the value of players under rookie deals.

I'm glad Kuzma was our choice at #27, the kid is looking like a stud and a great fit.

I wouldn't say this pick wasn't important because we eventually could have him at #28, the point is that this trade was all about the flexibility a team need to rebuilding so I'm going even further to say that it was the #27 pick that gave us the opportunity to turn a #28 pick in two more players that have potential to contribute.

Above all, with Kuzma, Hart and Bryant we still have young talent if we have to move Julius, JC or Zubac.

Id say, brilliant trade, brilliant draft and coming back to the start of the discussion, Kuzma has everything to be more than a throw in on this trade, he is the prototype modern PF in terms of skillset.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject:

NBALakerLegends wrote:
In 5 years I think most people will look at the trade as Kuz, Brook for Moz and DLo because that's the technicality of it no matter how you spin it.

We will probably never know how the Nets draft board looks. There is a chance that he Nets could have taken him due to him being a stretch 4 and factoring that that was a need of the Nets with Atkinson's system


If we sign PG13 next year with the cap space it will end up looking like PG13/Kuzma for DLO/Mozgov
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject:

Ultimately the trade won't be analyzed with Kuz. It was to get cap space for 2 max players. Focusing on Kuz as an integral part of the trade is an overstated technicality.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 am    Post subject:

NBALakerLegends wrote:
In 5 years I think most people will look at the trade as Kuz, Brook for Moz and DLo because that's the technicality of it no matter how you spin it.

We will probably never know how the Nets draft board looks. There is a chance that he Nets could have taken him due to him being a stretch 4 and factoring that that was a need of the Nets with Atkinson's system


Can't buy the argument because Semi Ojeleye and Jonah Bolden were also on the board as stretch 4s at the pick. Across multiple draft sites, Ojeleye was higher ranked over Bolden and Kuzma. LG was right to consider Bolden in the 1st.

Besides, not all teams draft for need. The Lakers didn't NEED another PF. Still drafted one.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
I see it as we used the Nets pick to get Kuzma. The guy we moved down to draft was Jason Hart, and we picked up Bryant as the reward for trading down.


Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
I see it as we used the Nets pick to get Kuzma. The guy we moved down to draft was Jason Hart, and we picked up Bryant as the reward for trading down.


Seems pretty cut and dry to me.


It is. But when you're analyzing this trade 5 years down the road it is whether we got 2 max players. The chances we just pick Kuz at 28 was probably 90-95% regardless.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject:

^The only reason why people are even doubting Kuzma's spot is because of his Vegas play.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
manlisten wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
I see it as we used the Nets pick to get Kuzma. The guy we moved down to draft was Jason Hart, and we picked up Bryant as the reward for trading down.


Seems pretty cut and dry to me.


It is. But when you're analyzing this trade 5 years down the road it is whether we got 2 max players. The chances we just pick Kuz at 28 was probably 90-95% regardless.


So if we end up with two max players do we say that was all due to the trade or do we say we probably could have carved out one max without the deal? Do we assume LA would have elected to take Kuzma over the Utah deal with 28 if they didn't have 27? Do we assume they wouldn't have focused on a guard over a forward given the logjam up front if they didn't feel they could pick up a guard elsewhere (remember, our depthchart was Lonzo and Jordan at that point).

I think your conclusion is the most logical but far from something that can be assumed. The best thing to do in this case is take things as they were. Kuzma was part of the deal.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
manlisten wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
I see it as we used the Nets pick to get Kuzma. The guy we moved down to draft was Jason Hart, and we picked up Bryant as the reward for trading down.


Seems pretty cut and dry to me.


It is. But when you're analyzing this trade 5 years down the road it is whether we got 2 max players. The chances we just pick Kuz at 28 was probably 90-95% regardless.


So if we end up with two max players do we say that was all due to the trade or do we say we probably could have carved out one max without the deal? Do we assume LA would have elected to take Kuzma over the Utah deal with 28 if they didn't have 27? Do we assume they wouldn't have focused on a guard over a forward given the logjam up front if they didn't feel they could pick up a guard elsewhere (remember, our depthchart was Lonzo and Jordan at that point).

I think your conclusion is the most logical but far from something that can be assumed. The best thing to do in this case is take things as they were. Kuzma was part of the deal.


My point is that Kuzma is essentially a wash in analyzing it. I assume we have him in both scenarios. The trade will live or die with 2 max players, not whether we get Kuz (who would have been here). I just think it's bit of a red herring in the analysis.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
manlisten wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
I see it as we used the Nets pick to get Kuzma. The guy we moved down to draft was Jason Hart, and we picked up Bryant as the reward for trading down.


Seems pretty cut and dry to me.


It is. But when you're analyzing this trade 5 years down the road it is whether we got 2 max players. The chances we just pick Kuz at 28 was probably 90-95% regardless.


So if we end up with two max players do we say that was all due to the trade or do we say we probably could have carved out one max without the deal? Do we assume LA would have elected to take Kuzma over the Utah deal with 28 if they didn't have 27? Do we assume they wouldn't have focused on a guard over a forward given the logjam up front if they didn't feel they could pick up a guard elsewhere (remember, our depthchart was Lonzo and Jordan at that point).

I think your conclusion is the most logical but far from something that can be assumed. The best thing to do in this case is take things as they were. Kuzma was part of the deal.


My point is that Kuzma is essentially a wash in analyzing it. I assume we have him in both scenarios. The trade will live or die with 2 max players, not whether we get Kuz (who would have been here). I just think it's bit of a red herring in the analysis.


max or not Lakers didnt wanted D Russell on this team at all.

he couldn't net us a lottery pick so they dealt him in salary dump.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject:

It's the opposite. The salary dump (and getting an all star level player in Brook) happened bc Nets highly valued Dlo.

Anyways this is Kuz's thread. My take is he would have been here at 27 or 28. I cops care less. He's here and he's good!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject:

Let's be thankful that the Lakers again broke rank and took a guy higher than the consensus pick (most had him in the 40s). Really love Kuz.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject:

I think we liked Kuzma enough that in the end if we don't get our max players, we will be happy we drafted Kuzma. I think there is still that residual feeling from some about how we prematurely traded Russell, and Kuzma was a product of that trade, they want to poo-poo Kuzma, as a DLO protest.

I know how this all looks in the summer league, it proves very little. But guys who can actually hit shots, not just lay-up drills in scrimmage games, means something. We need a stretch 4, and Kuzma could be that guy.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
I think we liked Kuzma enough that in the end if we don't get our max players, we will be happy we drafted Kuzma. I think there is still that residual feeling from some about how we prematurely traded Russell, and Kuzma was a product of that trade, they want to poo-poo Kuzma, as a DLO protest.

I know how this all looks in the summer league, it proves very little. But guys who can actually hit shots, not just lay-up drills in scrimmage games, means something. We need a stretch 4, and Kuzma could be that guy.


Who is poo-poo-ing Kuzma? Wouldnt make any sense to do that and haven't really seen anyone, Lakers fan or otherwise, do that.

Drafting Kuzma and trading DLo are for all intents and purposes, separate transactions.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject:

Of course he will struggle some but Kuzma is going to be a bigger contributor this season than most think.

His offensive game is NBA ready; he gives good effort on defense. He has a high BBIQ. He and Zo already have great chemistry.

He is, by far, one of our best jump-shooters on the team. He can be a true stretch 4, something that we have been missing, and he can play some 3.

IMO Kuz could grow into a legitimate 2nd or 3rd option on a championship-caliber team. I am excited to see this kid's game develop.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject:

Kuz will be insurance at the PF spot along with Nance, if the Lakers have to part with Jules.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Kuz will be insurance at the PF spot along with Nance, if the Lakers have to part with Jules.


Pretty good situation for the Lakers at PF.
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