Who do you have higher expectations for Hart or Ennis this season.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject:

Hart because he is expected to play a significant role where he could end up with big minutes especially with small ball lineup.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Hart because he is expected to play a significant role where he could end up with big minutes especially with small ball lineup.


I wouldn't say "big minutes." At least 10-12mpg would be nice.

Lonzo/KCP are starting.

JC should get 22-24mpg at the least.

Something like:

Lonzo 29
KCP 32
JC 24

That's 85 minutes at the guard rotations. 11 minutes are left for likely Hart/Ennis, maybe Weber/Blue if they make the team.

I'm sure we'll run some 3 guard lineups, but i don't see it being a regular or large portion of the minutes.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Hart because he is expected to play a significant role where he could end up with big minutes especially with small ball lineup.


I wouldn't say "big minutes." At least 10-12mpg would be nice.

Lonzo/KCP are starting.

JC should get 22-24mpg at the least.

Something like:

Lonzo 29
KCP 32
JC 24

That's 85 minutes at the guard rotations. 11 minutes are left for likely Hart/Ennis, maybe Weber/Blue if they make the team.

I'm sure we'll run some 3 guard lineups, but i don't see it being a regular or large portion of the minutes.


Yeah I mean 10-12 sounds right but I could see that number increasing if JC plays selfish ball or his tunnel vision problems cause issues.

For small ball, I could see a lot of:

Ball
Hart
KCP
Ingram
Randle/Nance

However, if Hart is not hitting 3s then he probably won't get those extra minutes.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject:

Their minutes are going to be mostly taken by Clarkson. If Clarkson is used more at PG or SG, will reflect more on Ennis or Hart. Neither guy may get more than 10 minutes a game this year, barring injuries or a in-season Clarkson trade.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject:

h2omike wrote:
Their minutes are going to be mostly taken by Clarkson. If Clarkson is used more at PG or SG, will reflect more on Ennis or Hart. Neither guy may get more than 10 minutes a game this year, barring injuries or a in-season Clarkson trade.


The Lakers likely have several priorities:

1. at the least, prop up JC's value ala Lou Will to make him palatable for trade;

2. give Hart reps to eventually take JC's backup SG role.

Are these goal mutually exclusive? Probably not if they run JC at some backup PG minutes.

Not sure where Ennis fits in the long term plan for the Lakers. We hold his 2nd year rights on the deal.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Not sure where Ennis fits in the long term plan for the Lakers. We hold his 2nd year rights on the deal.


I doubt the Lakers know where he fits in long term. They agonized over whether to keep Ennis or sign Rondo for a year. When they went with Ennis, they simply gave him an option year so they could keep him for cheap if he pans out.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Not sure where Ennis fits in the long term plan for the Lakers. We hold his 2nd year rights on the deal.


I doubt the Lakers know where he fits in long term. They agonized over whether to keep Ennis or sign Rondo for a year. When they went with Ennis, they simply gave him an option year so they could keep him for cheap if he pans out.


It was a good deal in the sense it's a minimum deal, and if it pans out, we have Ennis on a 2nd year on the minimum.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject:

I think Ennis is the player more likely to have a greater positive impact - and the guy more needed to perform at a high level as well - on this Laker season. If we exclude risk of a severe health issue among the small players as a factor, Hart seems the third guy down the depth chart in any of his three possible slots.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject:

Ennis. I'm a big Ennis fan and really wanted to re-sign him. I think he has more PG instincts than Hart, has already shown he can hit the NBA 3 with consistency, and has been in the league for a few years. He has more to offer at the moment. I want Ennis to eventually become JC's replacement if we trade JC.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject:

I have low expectations for both. I like them, but I'm not expecting a whole lot. That said, between the two, I think Ennis has the bigger role.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

I expect much different things from Hart and Ennis.

As for long term impact, I have much higher expectations of Hart, particularly because, based on his career at Villanova, he defends and has a fairly solid all-around game. With regards to this upcoming season, it all depends on Clarkson.

If Luke plays Clarkson primarily as a backup PG, I expect to see Ennis on the shelf and Hart play rotation minutes.

If Luke plays Clarkson primarily as a backup SG, I expect to see Ennis a lot this season backing up Lonzo, and Hart will only see spot situations.

If Luke doesn't play Clarkson or JC gets traded, Ennis will play more but I think Hart will have the bigger impact, again thanks to his defense.

There are a lot of assumptions to make right now. It's awfully early to predict how Hart's game and his defense will translate, training camp and preseason will be interesting to watch.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Hart by far. I expect someone with an NCAA championship pedigree and acting #1 option for one of the best NCAA teams to show out a bit during rookie year.


This. As long as Hart is provided with the same opportunity, I expect him to surprise people.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:

Hart, he is a 4 year college player who was the top guy on a top college program. He is NBA ready. Ennis is a career journey man who will likely be on many rosters in his career, good enough to be 3rd string but not good enough to get consistent minutes.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

I don't see anything special with Hart.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject:

Ennis 1st half. Hart 2nd half after JC is jettisoned.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hart, he is a 4 year college player who was the top guy on a top college program. He is NBA ready. Ennis is a career journey man who will likely be on many rosters in his career, good enough to be 3rd string but not good enough to get consistent minutes.


They key difference is that Ennis is the only true point guard on the roster after Ball, so his pathway to minutes is clear. He's bounced around a lot but he is a golden opportunity to get a lot of minutes here. He seems like a steady but nothing special guard who takes care of the ball well; the kind of guy who could be an OK backup.

Hart, for all his college success, is just another untested rookie taken late in the draft who is competing for minutes with a couple of proven veterans. He definitely had all around skills on the college level; but we've seen lots of guys like him flame out in the pros. Who knows which way he'll go?

My guess is Ennis will have a better season if only because he fits the team's needs better and so will get more opportunity.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hart, he is a 4 year college player who was the top guy on a top college program. He is NBA ready. Ennis is a career journey man who will likely be on many rosters in his career, good enough to be 3rd string but not good enough to get consistent minutes.


They key difference is that Ennis is the only true point guard on the roster after Ball, so his pathway to minutes is clear. He's bounced around a lot but he is a golden opportunity to get a lot of minutes here. He seems like a steady but nothing special guard who takes care of the ball well; the kind of guy who could be an OK backup.

Hart, for all his college success, is just another untested rookie taken late in the draft who is competing for minutes with a couple of proven veterans. He definitely had all around skills on the college level; but we've seen lots of guys like him flame out in the pros. Who knows which way he'll go?

My guess is Ennis will have a better season if only because he fits the team's needs better and so will get more opportunity.


I remember being young and thinking, wow I can't wait till this Mateen Cleaves guy gets to the NBA and dominates!
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject:

It really depends on JC. Is he the main backup for PG? Then Hart will get the run.

If JC is really doing backup SG, then Ennis will play over Hart.

If JC is traded, then likely both Ennis/Hart will contribute more.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hart, he is a 4 year college player who was the top guy on a top college program. He is NBA ready. Ennis is a career journey man who will likely be on many rosters in his career, good enough to be 3rd string but not good enough to get consistent minutes.


They key difference is that Ennis is the only true point guard on the roster after Ball, so his pathway to minutes is clear. He's bounced around a lot but he is a golden opportunity to get a lot of minutes here. He seems like a steady but nothing special guard who takes care of the ball well; the kind of guy who could be an OK backup.

Hart, for all his college success, is just another untested rookie taken late in the draft who is competing for minutes with a couple of proven veterans. He definitely had all around skills on the college level; but we've seen lots of guys like him flame out in the pros. Who knows which way he'll go?

My guess is Ennis will have a better season if only because he fits the team's needs better and so will get more opportunity.


That was my logic as well.

I'd be surprised, out of the gate, to see Ennis get DNP Coachs Decision.

For Hart, unless it is a blowout, I kind of expect it right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hart, he is a 4 year college player who was the top guy on a top college program. He is NBA ready. Ennis is a career journey man who will likely be on many rosters in his career, good enough to be 3rd string but not good enough to get consistent minutes.


They key difference is that Ennis is the only true point guard on the roster after Ball, so his pathway to minutes is clear. He's bounced around a lot but he is a golden opportunity to get a lot of minutes here. He seems like a steady but nothing special guard who takes care of the ball well; the kind of guy who could be an OK backup.

Hart, for all his college success, is just another untested rookie taken late in the draft who is competing for minutes with a couple of proven veterans. He definitely had all around skills on the college level; but we've seen lots of guys like him flame out in the pros. Who knows which way he'll go?

My guess is Ennis will have a better season if only because he fits the team's needs better and so will get more opportunity.


I remember being young and thinking, wow I can't wait till this Mateen Cleaves guy gets to the NBA and dominates!


Ah, Mateen. He, Michael Sweetney, Luke Jackson, Ed O'Bannon, and Adam Morrison probably started a "what the hell happened to us? - we were supposed to become rich, famous stars" club.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject:

One thing they both have in common is that they are instant starters if the player playing in front of them gets hurt.

I think JC is kept as first guard off the bench regardless.

Hart is a better basketball player than Ennis overall. Like 1v1 Hart would prob get him 7 out of 10...Hart is pretty strong for his position and can defend.

They both will butter there bread by shooting and making open 3's. Hart with the slight advantage to hit a shot under pressure & Ennis with the slight advantage to pass/make right play out of pressure.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
22 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hart, he is a 4 year college player who was the top guy on a top college program. He is NBA ready. Ennis is a career journey man who will likely be on many rosters in his career, good enough to be 3rd string but not good enough to get consistent minutes.


They key difference is that Ennis is the only true point guard on the roster after Ball, so his pathway to minutes is clear. He's bounced around a lot but he is a golden opportunity to get a lot of minutes here. He seems like a steady but nothing special guard who takes care of the ball well; the kind of guy who could be an OK backup.

Hart, for all his college success, is just another untested rookie taken late in the draft who is competing for minutes with a couple of proven veterans. He definitely had all around skills on the college level; but we've seen lots of guys like him flame out in the pros. Who knows which way he'll go?

My guess is Ennis will have a better season if only because he fits the team's needs better and so will get more opportunity.


I remember being young and thinking, wow I can't wait till this Mateen Cleaves guy gets to the NBA and dominates!


Ah, Mateen. He, Michael Sweetney, Luke Jackson, Ed O'Bannon, and Adam Morrison probably started a "what the hell happened to us? - we were supposed to become rich, famous stars" club.

Sadly yup! Some players just don't translate
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