5 Laker players with the most to prove in 2017-18
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Which Laker player has the most to prove this season?
Zubac
5%
 5%  [ 5 ]
Randle
55%
 55%  [ 54 ]
KCP
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Ingram
21%
 21%  [ 21 ]
Ball
11%
 11%  [ 11 ]
Other
4%
 4%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 97

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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, Randle is better than Lopez going forward, KCP doesn't matter since we don't have rights on him. And Randle is center depth. If we have Deng then we will be extremely limited in free agency.


How are KCP's rights any different from Lopez?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, Randle is better than Lopez going forward, KCP doesn't matter since we don't have rights on him. And Randle is center depth. If we have Deng then we will be extremely limited in free agency.


How are KCP's rights any different from Lopez?


Lopez we have full Bird rights.

KCP, no Bird rights. Not even Early Bird rights.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, Randle is better than Lopez going forward, KCP doesn't matter since we don't have rights on him. And Randle is center depth. If we have Deng then we will be extremely limited in free agency.


How are KCP's rights any different from Lopez?


Lopez we have full Bird rights.

KCP, no Bird rights. Not even Early Bird rights.


Got it.

What does that mean practically, though? In any scenario the Lakers were to resign them it wouldn't be to pay them more or use those rights.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, Randle is better than Lopez going forward, KCP doesn't matter since we don't have rights on him. And Randle is center depth. If we have Deng then we will be extremely limited in free agency.


How are KCP's rights any different from Lopez?


Lopez we have full Bird rights.

KCP, no Bird rights. Not even Early Bird rights.


What does that mean practically, though? In any scenario the Lakers were to resign them it wouldn't be to pay them more.


Say we have 11m left after trading Deng/JC/renouncing Jules, could offer Brook a 1 year 11m deal, and in 2019, exceed the cap to re-sign him when we will already be over the cap.

Can't do that with KCP who could theoretically accept the 11m, and the next year he could agree to 175% of that amount in 2019.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Interesting. That would be $19.25m for KCP in 2019, if I'm reading that correctly. He'd obviously be taking a loss in 2018, but if they redo his contract in 2020 could they make it up in another increase?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Interesting. That would be $19.25m for KCP in 2019, if I'm reading that correctly. He'd obviously be taking a loss in 2018, but if they redo his contract in 2020 could they make it up in another increase?


What I'm not sure about is whether we need actual cap space to offer him that amount in 2019. That only touches upon the max amount he can receive. We likely would need to have actual cap space.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, Randle is better than Lopez going forward, KCP doesn't matter since we don't have rights on him. And Randle is center depth. If we have Deng then we will be extremely limited in free agency.


How are KCP's rights any different from Lopez?


We have Lopez's Bird Rights, we have none with KCP. We can give him a 120% raise using cap space while we could give Lopez the max after using all our cap space. Just an example, we shouldn't give Lopez the max.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
That would make Mozgov's deal look so strange. We sent away a 2nd pick to save money to end up using it to sign a 7th pick that we could have signed keeping the 2nd pick that was a better prospect.

The front office would look really dumb.


That trade has nothing to do with Randle. We can use all our cap space on other players and then re-sign him.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Interesting. That would be $19.25m for KCP in 2019, if I'm reading that correctly. He'd obviously be taking a loss in 2018, but if they redo his contract in 2020 could they make it up in another increase?


What I'm not sure about is whether we need actual cap space to offer him that amount in 2019. That only touches upon the max amount he can receive. We likely would need to have actual cap space.


After two seasons we would have his early bird rights and could offer a 4 year contract using those rights
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deal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
deal wrote:
Ball. He definitely needs to prove belongs.


All the rookies need to show they can play in the NBA.




Correct. But I picked Ball because of the hype surrounding him...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:

randle off top
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject:

Face-Me wrote:
randle off top


I'm sure JR can feel the LG heat by now!
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nash
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Face-Me wrote:
randle off top


I'm sure JR can feel the LG heat by now!


I don't call it heat, most folks like Julius. He is just in a tough situation because we have a plan to sign two max players and he is at the end of his rookie deal.
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Face-Me wrote:
randle off top


I'm sure JR can feel the LG heat by now!


I don't call it heat, most folks like Julius. He is just in a tough situation because we have a plan to sign two max players and he is at the end of his rookie deal.


True. I hope Jules balls-out this season.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
I would say the 3 contract year players... Randle, KCP and Lopez
Then the 2 annointed heirs... Ball and BI


I was about to write exactly the same thoughts. Thanks for saving me the time.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject:

I think most of the Lakers have a lot to prove actually, which is a strange way of saying maybe it's too close to call.

Deng may have the most to prove in terms of his having been treated by staff as written off, essentially now an expensive impediment to his team's goal of near term development of the kids. But I think he'll rise to the challenge OK, if staff allows it.

In terms of timing, Randle and Clarkson have the most significant role challenges in from of them; can either guy play a modicum of defense, and can either guy display above average court sense more often ? Dunno. Those are things that don't typically change overnight for players.

Lonzo Ball comes in as the guy most laden with the highest expectations in terms of making a positive team impac. It's the rarest of rookies who lives up the level of hype he's received in pre-year one. So that's a significant challenge, bringing leadership to a leaderless crew while making an acceptable mistake rate.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
I think most of the Lakers have a lot to prove actually, which is a strange way of saying maybe it's too close to call.

Deng may have the most to prove in terms of his having been treated by staff as written off, essentially now an expensive impediment to his team's goal of near term development of the kids. But I think he'll rise to the challenge OK, if staff allows it.

In terms of timing, Randle and Clarkson have the most significant role challenges in from of them; can either guy play a modicum of defense, and can either guy display above average court sense more often ? Dunno. Those are things that don't typically change overnight for players.

Lonzo Ball comes in as the guy most laden with the highest expectations in terms of making a positive team impac. It's the rarest of rookies who lives up the level of hype he's received in pre-year one. So that's a significant challenge, bringing leadership to a leaderless crew while making an acceptable mistake rate.


I particularly agree with the Deng assessment; he's the forgotten man. I don't know what he has left in his tank though.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject:

On top of the list is Jules. If he has a breakout year then he will get paid. If he does not then he will be more like a journeyman. With him on the best basketball shape of his life, Im encouraged that he can get there. Hopefully, mentally and from the neck up, He's more than ready too.
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