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vanexelent
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? |
Have you even read the news?
| Quote: | | This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
No . . . it's not. The KKK/Neo-Nazi movement may have been relatively quiet in recent years, but it has never been irrelevant and it clearly is highly relevant now. |
there is no movement...these are mostly a few uneducated d bags getting attention. There is real problematic growth taking place with groups such as MS-13, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Somali and Hatian gangs among others that are leaving trails of violence and blood from coast to coast.....those guys in Virginia are idiots that live above their parents garage. |
Now we see why you're downplaying it... |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I attend various ADL events, and, whereas violent crime is actually dropping on a national level (consistent with the trend under Obama), hate crimes are on the rise throughout the country. For anyone paying attention, the presence of racism and prejudice has clearly increased since Trump's election to the Presidency.
Unfortunately, a lot of white men thought their country had been taken away from them because our President was black. These same white voters, i.e. much of the Trump base, is now gloating as if Trump's election provided them all the notice they needed to believe that racism, after 8 years of a black president, is once again acceptable under our new white one.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Jeb BushVerified account @JebBush
The white supremacists and their bigotry do not represent our great country. All Americans should condemn this vile hatred. #Charlottesville |
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Raijin
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 6576
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Raijin wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
Civil unrest is a national security issue. If the government is going to spy on people no one should be immune. |
I couldn't disagree more. No one should be spied upon or investigated unless there is reasonable cause to do so. |
All or none
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Raijin
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? |
Have you even read the news?
| Quote: | | This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
No . . . it's not. The KKK/Neo-Nazi movement may have been relatively quiet in recent years, but it has never been irrelevant and it clearly is highly relevant now. |
there is no movement...these are mostly a few uneducated d bags getting attention. There is real problematic growth taking place with groups such as MS-13, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Somali and Hatian gangs among others that are leaving trails of violence and blood from coast to coast.....those guys in Virginia are idiots that live above their parents garage. |
Now we see why you're downplaying it... |
As if there was any question as to why
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? |
Have you even read the news?
| Quote: | | This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
No . . . it's not. The KKK/Neo-Nazi movement may have been relatively quiet in recent years, but it has never been irrelevant and it clearly is highly relevant now. |
there is no movement...these are mostly a few uneducated d bags getting attention. There is real problematic growth taking place with groups such as MS-13, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Somali and Hatian gangs among others that are leaving trails of violence and blood from coast to coast |
The criminal element of American society has always been an issue and is not made up solely of the minority groups as you imply.....
| Quote: | | those guys in Virginia are idiots that live above their parents garage. |
Regardless of their intellect and where they may live (BTW, pretty sure David Duke isn't living in his mother's garage, nor is Sessions, Bannon nor the rest of the racist Right that has political clout), the increase in the racial division they espouse and the violent "taking back of America" they endorse is clearly growing and is politically and socially significant as anyone who has been paying any attention would be more than willing to acknowledge. |
I did not imply anything, but listed some of the fastest growing criminal gangs in America. I am not surprised that you cannot get past the race or ethnicity of those groups, but if there is a "white" group that is growing and violent, feel free to inform me and I will include them on that list.
Race relations were horrible during the last administration, was that Trumps or Sessions fault also? |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Trump's ambiguous condemnation is not about his support of Nazi views, but rather his clear intention to not alienate them, his aim to not lose their votes and, thus, his implicit support of them (views and all) regardless. Its amazing how no one calls Trump out for refusing to wholly condemn them because he wants their votes. Sure, the media may call him out for not using the language he should and failing to fully condemn them, but fails to discuss that connection and the real reason why he refuses to.
Much of the Trump base are these people and its becoming clearer and clearer that a significant % of this country (all within the Trump base) holds racist and prejudice views, and they now feel entitled to express them. I truly wonder how many of those Nazis today were "new" recruits, finally coming out of the closet because Trump gave them cover to.
In that sense, Trump has helped this nation as a reality check of what's really out there. Maybe it needs to get as bad as it can get just until Trump is out of the office and then someone serious is elected who can actually address these issues in an effective way. |
I agree he doesn't want to alienate them. I completely disagree that he doesn't support them. His record of racist practices in regards to his real estate business etc. and the fact that he has surrounded himself by vermin like Bannon and Sessions indicate he absolutely agrees with them. Let's not excuse him because he is too cowardly to be as blatant about it as the cabinet members he appointed. |
You could be right. Its hard to separate the man from the politician. However, I'm of the opinion that Trump doesn't much believe in anything but himself. HIs history as a public figure doesn't seem to paint him as a racist, but just as an attention whore. As such, I don't think he's a racist, I think he's an opportunist. To this day, I believe that if being liberal could have got him to the Presidency, he would be liberal. Conversely, indirectly supporting racism got him elected and I think he'll continue to do so until, and only if, he believes it will cost him his popularity and/or his votes in the next election. And, at this point, I have no clue if it will.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Raijin wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? |
Have you even read the news?
| Quote: | | This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
No . . . it's not. The KKK/Neo-Nazi movement may have been relatively quiet in recent years, but it has never been irrelevant and it clearly is highly relevant now. |
there is no movement...these are mostly a few uneducated d bags getting attention. There is real problematic growth taking place with groups such as MS-13, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Somali and Hatian gangs among others that are leaving trails of violence and blood from coast to coast.....those guys in Virginia are idiots that live above their parents garage. |
Now we see why you're downplaying it... |
As if there was any question as to why |
I still do not know what either of you are implying....and your weak passive aggressive comment made it no more clear. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | I attend various ADL events, and, whereas violent crime is actually dropping on a national level (consistent with the trend under Obama), hate crimes are on the rise throughout the country. For anyone paying attention, the presence of racism and prejudice has clearly increased since Trump's election to the Presidency.
Unfortunately, a lot of white men thought their country had been taken away from them because our President was black. These same white voters, i.e. much of the Trump base, is now gloating as if Trump's election provided them all the notice they needed to believe that racism, after 8 years of a black president, is once again acceptable under our new white one. |
has anyone ever been to an ADL event where they claimed hate crimes were on the decline and things were good? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | Jeb BushVerified account @JebBush
The white supremacists and their bigotry do not represent our great country. All Americans should condemn this vile hatred. #Charlottesville |
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It really is that simply to acknowledge the obvious. Those can't refuse to do so, or attempt to deflect from that, are the core of the problem.
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | However, I'm of the opinion that Trump doesn't much believe in anything but himself. HIs history as a public figure doesn't seem to paint him as a racist, but just as an attention whore. As such, I don't think he's a racist, I think he's an opportunist. To this day, I believe that if being liberal could have got him to the Presidency, he would be liberal. |
we agree 100% on this opinion |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Vanexelent, Raijin and adkindo, I will remind each of you that personal attacks and going after the poster rather than the post is a violation of the terms of this thread. I don't care who started it. Don't do it.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | Jeb BushVerified account @JebBush
The white supremacists and their bigotry do not represent our great country. All Americans should condemn this vile hatred. #Charlottesville |
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It really is that simply to acknowledge the obvious. Those can't refuse to do so, or attempt to deflect from that, are the core of the problem. |
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Raijin wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? |
Have you even read the news?
| Quote: | | This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
No . . . it's not. The KKK/Neo-Nazi movement may have been relatively quiet in recent years, but it has never been irrelevant and it clearly is highly relevant now. |
there is no movement...these are mostly a few uneducated d bags getting attention. There is real problematic growth taking place with groups such as MS-13, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Somali and Hatian gangs among others that are leaving trails of violence and blood from coast to coast.....those guys in Virginia are idiots that live above their parents garage. |
Now we see why you're downplaying it... |
As if there was any question as to why |
I still do not know what either of you are implying....and your weak passive aggressive comment made it no more clear. |
Think hard and you'll get there man |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | has anyone ever been to an ADL event where they claimed hate crimes were on the decline |
That things were on the decline? Yes, actually. Until about a year ago and then, suddenly, hate crimes were on the uprise. Hmm, wonder why. Anyone who actually attends an ADL meetings would know that, instead of so easily dismissing the ADL. And, for reference, most of the ADL events I attend are actually attended by moderate conservatives and moderate liberals. The ADL isn't political like the ACLU.
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rwongega
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Trump's ambiguous condemnation is not about his support of Nazi views, but rather his clear intention to not alienate them, his aim to not lose their votes and, thus, his implicit support of them (views and all) regardless. Its amazing how no one calls Trump out for refusing to wholly condemn them because he wants their votes. Sure, the media may call him out for not using the language he should and failing to fully condemn them, but fails to discuss that connection and the real reason why he refuses to.
Much of the Trump base are these people and its becoming clearer and clearer that a significant % of this country (all within the Trump base) holds racist and prejudice views, and they now feel entitled to express them. I truly wonder how many of those Nazis today were "new" recruits, finally coming out of the closet because Trump gave them cover to.
In that sense, Trump has helped this nation as a reality check of what's really out there. Maybe it needs to get as bad as it can get just until Trump is out of the office and then someone serious is elected who can actually address these issues in an effective way. |
I agree he doesn't want to alienate them. I completely disagree that he doesn't support them. His record of racist practices in regards to his real estate business etc. and the fact that he has surrounded himself by vermin like Bannon and Sessions indicate he absolutely agrees with them. Let's not excuse him because he is too cowardly to be as blatant about it as the cabinet members he appointed. |
You could be right. Its hard to separate the man from the politician. However, I'm of the opinion that Trump doesn't much believe in anything but himself. HIs history as a public figure doesn't seem to paint him as a racist, but just as an attention whore. As such, I don't think he's a racist, I think he's an opportunist. To this day, I believe that if being liberal could have got him to the Presidency, he would be liberal. Conversely, indirectly supporting racism got him elected and I think he'll continue to do so until, and only if, he believes it will cost him his popularity and/or his votes in the next election. And, at this point, I have no clue if it will. |
I can certainly agree with that. He's the answer to the question: "How far would you go to become President of the United States".
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Trump's ambiguous condemnation is not about his support of Nazi views, but rather his clear intention to not alienate them, his aim to not lose their votes and, thus, his implicit support of them (views and all) regardless. Its amazing how no one calls Trump out for refusing to wholly condemn them because he wants their votes. Sure, the media may call him out for not using the language he should and failing to fully condemn them, but fails to discuss that connection and the real reason why he refuses to.
Much of the Trump base are these people and its becoming clearer and clearer that a significant % of this country (all within the Trump base) holds racist and prejudice views, and they now feel entitled to express them. I truly wonder how many of those Nazis today were "new" recruits, finally coming out of the closet because Trump gave them cover to.
In that sense, Trump has helped this nation as a reality check of what's really out there. Maybe it needs to get as bad as it can get just until Trump is out of the office and then someone serious is elected who can actually address these issues in an effective way. |
I agree he doesn't want to alienate them. I completely disagree that he doesn't support them. His record of racist practices in regards to his real estate business etc. and the fact that he has surrounded himself by vermin like Bannon and Sessions indicate he absolutely agrees with them. Let's not excuse him because he is too cowardly to be as blatant about it as the cabinet members he appointed. |
You could be right. Its hard to separate the man from the politician. However, I'm of the opinion that Trump doesn't much believe in anything but himself. HIs history as a public figure doesn't seem to paint him as a racist, but just as an attention whore. As such, I don't think he's a racist, I think he's an opportunist. To this day, I believe that if being liberal could have got him to the Presidency, he would be liberal. Conversely, indirectly supporting racism got him elected and I think he'll continue to do so until, and only if, he believes it will cost him his popularity and/or his votes in the next election. And, at this point, I have no clue if it will. |
But his history as a businessman does:
[url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/27/hillary-clinton/true-hillary-clinton-says-federal-government-sued-/][/url]
Trump "started his career back in 1973 being sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to African-Americans."
Both parts of the statement are carefully worded and accurate. The Justice Department sued Trump, his father and their company under the Civil Rights Act in 1973. In many instances, the government said, prospective black tenants were blocked from renting in his buildings.
The case was settled and Trump never admitted guilt, though his company had to agree to stipulations meant to prevent future discrimination at his rental properties.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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rwongega
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: UCLA -> NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Trump's ambiguous condemnation is not about his support of Nazi views, but rather his clear intention to not alienate them, his aim to not lose their votes and, thus, his implicit support of them (views and all) regardless. Its amazing how no one calls Trump out for refusing to wholly condemn them because he wants their votes. Sure, the media may call him out for not using the language he should and failing to fully condemn them, but fails to discuss that connection and the real reason why he refuses to.
Much of the Trump base are these people and its becoming clearer and clearer that a significant % of this country (all within the Trump base) holds racist and prejudice views, and they now feel entitled to express them. I truly wonder how many of those Nazis today were "new" recruits, finally coming out of the closet because Trump gave them cover to.
In that sense, Trump has helped this nation as a reality check of what's really out there. Maybe it needs to get as bad as it can get just until Trump is out of the office and then someone serious is elected who can actually address these issues in an effective way. |
I agree he doesn't want to alienate them. I completely disagree that he doesn't support them. His record of racist practices in regards to his real estate business etc. and the fact that he has surrounded himself by vermin like Bannon and Sessions indicate he absolutely agrees with them. Let's not excuse him because he is too cowardly to be as blatant about it as the cabinet members he appointed. |
You could be right. Its hard to separate the man from the politician. However, I'm of the opinion that Trump doesn't much believe in anything but himself. HIs history as a public figure doesn't seem to paint him as a racist, but just as an attention whore. As such, I don't think he's a racist, I think he's an opportunist. To this day, I believe that if being liberal could have got him to the Presidency, he would be liberal. Conversely, indirectly supporting racism got him elected and I think he'll continue to do so until, and only if, he believes it will cost him his popularity and/or his votes in the next election. And, at this point, I have no clue if it will. |
But his history as a businessman does:
[url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/27/hillary-clinton/true-hillary-clinton-says-federal-government-sued-/][/url]
Trump "started his career back in 1973 being sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to African-Americans."
Both parts of the statement are carefully worded and accurate. The Justice Department sued Trump, his father and their company under the Civil Rights Act in 1973. In many instances, the government said, prospective black tenants were blocked from renting in his buildings.
The case was settled and Trump never admitted guilt, though his company had to agree to stipulations meant to prevent future discrimination at his rental properties. |
That was pretty typical of most businessmen and landlords in that time. From a strictly business sense, there was the perception that having black people move in would lower property value. See white flight.
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Lucky_Shot
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | However, I'm of the opinion that Trump doesn't much believe in anything but himself. HIs history as a public figure doesn't seem to paint him as a racist, but just as an attention whore. As such, I don't think he's a racist, I think he's an opportunist. To this day, I believe that if being liberal could have got him to the Presidency, he would be liberal. |
we agree 100% on this opinion |
I agree  |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Raijin wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | The federal government (maybe in the DOJ) had a group that kept tabs on White Supremacist groups, right-wing militias, etc. One of the first things Trump administration did was defund it. |
is there some elevated crime spree or national security issues I am unaware of related to white supremacists or "right wing" militias? Are these groups even growing at a rate worth recognition? |
Have you even read the news?
| Quote: | | This is "boogey man" stuff...these groups have been irrelevant for decades and remain irrelevant. |
No . . . it's not. The KKK/Neo-Nazi movement may have been relatively quiet in recent years, but it has never been irrelevant and it clearly is highly relevant now. |
there is no movement...these are mostly a few uneducated d bags getting attention. There is real problematic growth taking place with groups such as MS-13, Latin Kings, Mexican Mafia, Somali and Hatian gangs among others that are leaving trails of violence and blood from coast to coast.....those guys in Virginia are idiots that live above their parents garage. |
Now we see why you're downplaying it... |
As if there was any question as to why |
I still do not know what either of you are implying....and your weak passive aggressive comment made it no more clear. |
Think hard and you'll get there man |
as I told you, I do not know what you are implying, but I will assume that you do not either since you continue to post without stating the meaning of your post. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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DMR, that's not enough evidence for me, especially not from 1972 (which was a different time in this country). Still, even if that makes Trump a racist, that doesn't make him someone sympathetic to Nazis or the KKK, which would be a whole other level.
I think Trump is capable of discrimination because it gets him an advantage, but I don't necessarily think its because it comes from an inherently racist belief system, which is a distinction.
While I wholeheartedly believe someone like Sessions hates everyone who isn't white, male and rich, I just tend to think Trump hates anyone who doesn't support him and, further, will support anyone who can benefit him, for good or bad. If that means discriminating against black people in the 70s because he believes it would profit him, fine. If that means discriminating against black people now because it would get him votes. Fine. However, I don't think that makes him racist, I just think that makes him an immoral and unethical opportunist who doesn't care what lines he has to cross to acquire an advantage.
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | has anyone ever been to an ADL event where they claimed hate crimes were on the decline |
That things were on the decline? Yes, actually. Until about a year ago and then, suddenly, hate crimes were on the uprise. Hmm, wonder why. Anyone who actually attends an ADL meetings would know that, instead of so easily dismissing the ADL. And, for reference, most of the ADL events I attend are actually attended by moderate conservatives and moderate liberals. The ADL isn't political like the ACLU. |
I neither said they were political nor did I dismiss them. In fact, I have never been to a meeting and have no issue with your claim of who attends, but the organizations survival and ability to raise funds would likely correlate with the rise and fall with the perceptions of hate and racism I would assume. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Quote: | Jeb BushVerified account @JebBush
The white supremacists and their bigotry do not represent our great country. All Americans should condemn this vile hatred. #Charlottesville |
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It really is that simply to acknowledge the obvious. Those can't refuse to do so, or attempt to deflect from that, are the core of the problem. |
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So you disagree that White Supremacists do not represent the ideals of our nation. Got it.
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | has anyone ever been to an ADL event where they claimed hate crimes were on the decline |
That things were on the decline? Yes, actually. Until about a year ago and then, suddenly, hate crimes were on the uprise. Hmm, wonder why. Anyone who actually attends an ADL meetings would know that, instead of so easily dismissing the ADL. And, for reference, most of the ADL events I attend are actually attended by moderate conservatives and moderate liberals. The ADL isn't political like the ACLU. |
I neither said they were political nor did I dismiss them. In fact, I have never been to a meeting and have no issue with your claim of who attends, but the organizations survival and ability to raise funds would likely correlate with the rise and fall with the perceptions of hate and racism I would assume. |
Its an organization that focuses on many different issues. They focus on police community training, anti-bully campaigns, immigration issues and access to justice for those in poverty, among many, many other issues. It's not an organization that just focuses on hate crimes. Recently, that has been more of their focus, but, yea, two years ago, IRCC, there was a focus on school bullying because of all the school shootings. The ADL just goes where the problems are.
Why I said your post was dismissive is because you implied that they would lie about the frequency of hate crimes to get funding. The ADL doesn't have any need to exaggerate anything as there are always enough for them to cover. In any case, the increase in reported hate crimes isn't just reported by the ADL.
Reported Hate Crimes up 20% Nationally in 2016 Fueled by the Trump Presidential Election Campaign
| Quote: | Hate crimes in nine U.S. metropolitan areas rose more than 20 percent last year, fueled by inflamed passions during the presidential campaign and more willingness for victims to step forward, a leading hate crimes researcher said on Monday.
Bias crimes appeared to increase in some cities following the Nov. 8 election of President Donald Trump, a trend that has extended into this year with a wave of bomb threats and desecrations at synagogues and Jewish cemeteries, according to California researcher Brian Levin.
The White House could not be reached immediately for comment on the research.
Levin collected data as director of the nonpartisan Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino, where he is a professor of criminal justice. The new numbers, collected from police departments, reverse a trend toward fewer hate crimes in many of the cities in recent years. |
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | DMR, that's not enough evidence for me, especially not from 1972 (which was a different time in this country). Still, even if that makes Trump a racist, that doesn't make him someone sympathetic to Nazis or the KKK, which would be a whole other level.
I think Trump is capable of discrimination because it gets him an advantage, but I don't necessarily think its because it comes from an inherently racist belief system, which is a distinction.
While I wholeheartedly believe someone like Sessions hates everyone who isn't white, male and rich, I just tend to think Trump hates anyone who doesn't support him and, further, will support anyone who can benefit him, for good or bad. If that means discriminating against black people in the 70s because he believes it would profit him, fine. If that means discriminating against black people now because it would get him votes. Fine. However, I don't think that makes him racist, I just think that makes him an immoral and unethical opportunist who doesn't care what lines he has to cross to acquire an advantage. |
Fair enough. But we will have to disagree on that point that surrounding oneself with open and obvious racists as part of your base of power doesn't mean one is sympathetic to or identifies with their racist ideals.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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