Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject:
Raijin wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I can't see Ingram's game regress to where it was at the beginning of last year
That was the biggest thing I was looking for during Vegas. Didn't really see any regression, admittedly through one game.
What do you see his stats for next year?
14 6 2
42/32/68
Atrocious
I think people expecting Kobe-like progress from rookie year to 2nd year outside of just adding playing time are totally unrealistic. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Yeah, I can't see Ingram's game regress to where it was at the beginning of last year
That was the biggest thing I was looking for during Vegas. Didn't really see any regression, admittedly through one game.
What do you see his stats for next year?
14 6 2
42/32/68
Atrocious
I think people expecting Kobe-like progress from rookie year to 2nd year outside of just adding playing time are totally unrealistic.
I'd argue 42% FG% is pretty low for Ingram though. Post-ASB he shot 47.5%... his overall TS% might not be great due to FTs/3s (although his FT stroke looks better and 68% seems low?).
14/6/2 seems reasonable to me, but I'd guess something like 46/32/75 splits?
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject:
tox wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Raijin wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I can't see Ingram's game regress to where it was at the beginning of last year
That was the biggest thing I was looking for during Vegas. Didn't really see any regression, admittedly through one game.
What do you see his stats for next year?
14 6 2
42/32/68
Atrocious
I think people expecting Kobe-like progress from rookie year to 2nd year outside of just adding playing time are totally unrealistic.
I'd argue 42% FG% is pretty low for Ingram though. Post-ASB he shot 47.5%... his overall TS% might not be great due to FTs/3s (although his FT stroke looks better and 68% seems low?).
14/6/2 seems reasonable to me, but I'd guess something like 46/32/75 splits?
The reason behind the low FG% is because, we didn't get to see a great sample of his perimeter shooting, and I expect his Iso frequency to go up quite a bit. I think defenses will pay more attention to him as the season goes on as well.
6% FT increase is pretty reasonable in comparison to other guys learning to shoot.
I don't think he'll be playing as much of a tertiary option on offense like he did last season, so really, any considerable improvement across the board, along with increased offensive responsibility is a big deal. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Yeah, I can't see Ingram's game regress to where it was at the beginning of last year
That was the biggest thing I was looking for during Vegas. Didn't really see any regression, admittedly through one game.
What do you see his stats for next year?
14 6 2
42/32/68
Atrocious
I think people expecting Kobe-like progress from rookie year to 2nd year outside of just adding playing time are totally unrealistic.
I'd argue 42% FG% is pretty low for Ingram though. Post-ASB he shot 47.5%... his overall TS% might not be great due to FTs/3s (although his FT stroke looks better and 68% seems low?).
14/6/2 seems reasonable to me, but I'd guess something like 46/32/75 splits?
The reason behind the low FG% is because, we didn't get to see a great sample of his perimeter shooting, and I expect his Iso frequency to go up quite a bit. I think defenses will pay more attention to him as the season goes on as well.
6% FT increase is pretty reasonable in comparison to other guys learning to shoot.
I don't think he'll be playing as much of a tertiary option on offense like he did last season, so really, any considerable improvement across the board, along with increased offensive responsibility is a big deal.
Gotta account for lonzo's impact on everyone's game as well. I'd probably have him around 14-15 ppg without Lonzo as well, but with Lonzo and without Dlo, Ingram is now our number 1 perimeter scoring threat.
I have him around 18-20 ppg at around 45/35/?
Lonzo is gonna get him a few easy ones a game (maybe more) and kinda pad his #s and fg % a little
Yeah, I can't see Ingram's game regress to where it was at the beginning of last year
That was the biggest thing I was looking for during Vegas. Didn't really see any regression, admittedly through one game.
What do you see his stats for next year?
14 6 2
42/32/68
Atrocious
I think people expecting Kobe-like progress from rookie year to 2nd year outside of just adding playing time are totally unrealistic.
I'd argue 42% FG% is pretty low for Ingram though. Post-ASB he shot 47.5%... his overall TS% might not be great due to FTs/3s (although his FT stroke looks better and 68% seems low?).
14/6/2 seems reasonable to me, but I'd guess something like 46/32/75 splits?
The reason behind the low FG% is because, we didn't get to see a great sample of his perimeter shooting, and I expect his Iso frequency to go up quite a bit. I think defenses will pay more attention to him as the season goes on as well.
6% FT increase is pretty reasonable in comparison to other guys learning to shoot.
I don't think he'll be playing as much of a tertiary option on offense like he did last season, so really, any considerable improvement across the board, along with increased offensive responsibility is a big deal.
That's fair. His FG% increase post-ASB did come with teams not taking the Lakers seriously. Still, I don't know, it seemed awfully replicable to me. FT% you may have a point about -- maybe I'm too optimistic there. I'm still going to hold out for >70% though.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Gotta account for lonzo's impact on everyone's game as well. I'd probably have him around 14-15 ppg without Lonzo as well, but with Lonzo and without Dlo, Ingram is now our number 1 perimeter scoring threat.
I have him around 18-20 ppg at around 45/35/?
Lonzo is gonna get him a few easy ones a game (maybe more) and kinda pad his #s and fg % a little
It's difficult to measure Lonzo's impact. It's odd to say, but Ingram and Lonzo have contrasting games right now. Ingram isn't as easy a catch and shoot player as Matt Thomas, Vander Blue, Kyle Kuzma, and others. The guys that succeeded the best with Lonzo, were. Ingram isn't the most prolific off-ball guy either, and Nwaba easily made the best of his off-ball abilities before being moved onto the Bulls.
It's also about the loss of Nick Young (odd to say). Nick was the #1 option on offense and DAR made sure he got his high percentage looks. Felt like Nick couldn't miss. Now, Nick is gone, DAR is gone, and there's the relative unpredictability of Zo's 3point ability. I think all of that crowds Ingram's ability in the halfcourt.
I don't expect Ingram to rim-run like I do JC, Kuzma, Randle, and others. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Gotta account for lonzo's impact on everyone's game as well. I'd probably have him around 14-15 ppg without Lonzo as well, but with Lonzo and without Dlo, Ingram is now our number 1 perimeter scoring threat.
I have him around 18-20 ppg at around 45/35/?
Lonzo is gonna get him a few easy ones a game (maybe more) and kinda pad his #s and fg % a little
It's difficult to measure Lonzo's impact. It's odd to say, but Ingram and Lonzo have contrasting games right now. Ingram isn't as easy a catch and shoot player as Matt Thomas, Vander Blue, Kyle Kuzma, and others. The guys that succeeded the best with Lonzo, were. Ingram isn't the most prolific off-ball guy either, and Nwaba easily made the best of his off-ball abilities before being moved onto the Bulls.
It's also about the loss of Nick Young (odd to say). Nick was the #1 option on offense and DAR made sure he got his high percentage looks. Felt like Nick couldn't miss. Now, Nick is gone, DAR is gone, and there's the relative unpredictability of Zo's 3point ability. I think all of that crowds Ingram's ability in the halfcourt.
I don't expect Ingram to rim-run like I do JC, Kuzma, Randle, and others.
Honestly this is why the Lakers pulling Ingram out of SPL was a blessing in disguise for Zo. It allowed the team to play his pace/style no questions asked.
Ingram looked much improved in the iso aspect in that one game. But I would agree their styles contrast a bit at the moment. I think as the year goes on though Ingram will get better being a finisher on Lonzo's playmaking and will do a bit of playmaking himself
Zo and Ingram's first play was an easy alley oop. I think Ingram's ISO play in Summer League was what he was asked to do, show that he can be that kind scorer. As the team gels, play will be more fluid, the ball will move, and Ingram will fit in just fine. And he will be one of the only players on the team who can finish like that when they need it.
Ingram seems to me a triple threat elbow/ISO kind of guy ala Kobe/melo/Droz. Not sure the 3 point shooting is his comfortable spot just yet. I think his instinct is to attack off the dribble. Should be interesting to see how he operates with Lonzo. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Ingram seems to me a triple threat elbow/ISO kind of guy ala Kobe/melo/Droz. Not sure the 3 point shooting is his comfortable spot just yet. I think his instinct is to attack off the dribble. Should be interesting to see how he operates with Lonzo.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:46 am Post subject:
22 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Gotta account for lonzo's impact on everyone's game as well. I'd probably have him around 14-15 ppg without Lonzo as well, but with Lonzo and without Dlo, Ingram is now our number 1 perimeter scoring threat.
I have him around 18-20 ppg at around 45/35/?
Lonzo is gonna get him a few easy ones a game (maybe more) and kinda pad his #s and fg % a little
It's difficult to measure Lonzo's impact. It's odd to say, but Ingram and Lonzo have contrasting games right now. Ingram isn't as easy a catch and shoot player as Matt Thomas, Vander Blue, Kyle Kuzma, and others. The guys that succeeded the best with Lonzo, were. Ingram isn't the most prolific off-ball guy either, and Nwaba easily made the best of his off-ball abilities before being moved onto the Bulls.
It's also about the loss of Nick Young (odd to say). Nick was the #1 option on offense and DAR made sure he got his high percentage looks. Felt like Nick couldn't miss. Now, Nick is gone, DAR is gone, and there's the relative unpredictability of Zo's 3point ability. I think all of that crowds Ingram's ability in the halfcourt.
I don't expect Ingram to rim-run like I do JC, Kuzma, Randle, and others.
Honestly this is why the Lakers pulling Ingram out of SPL was a blessing in disguise for Zo. It allowed the team to play his pace/style no questions asked.
Ingram looked much improved in the iso aspect in that one game. But I would agree their styles contrast a bit at the moment. I think as the year goes on though Ingram will get better being a finisher on Lonzo's playmaking and will do a bit of playmaking himself
Where Ingram can have the most impact is the same spot that Hart did for a game or so, and definitely the same spot for Vander Blue. It's at that diagonal hit-ahead, or what I prefer to call, the advance pass. Teammate receives the ball roughly 30' away from the hoop with forward momentum. Defense is still retreating. This is the ideal spot for Ingram to get a change of direction from the start, take advantage of his long strides, and end up at the hoop.
Things would explode if he didn't even need to do that, but rather, could just pull up off-the-dribble for 3 without totally breaking form on forward momentum like Blue did the last several Vegas games.
It's going to be especially critical for players to learn to 1-2 step or hop into that 3pt. shots in semi transition. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6938 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:58 am Post subject:
We won't know anything about anybody until we see a couple of preseason game against real NBA talent. _________________ "He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you."
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:41 am Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
Raijin wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I can't see Ingram's game regress to where it was at the beginning of last year
That was the biggest thing I was looking for during Vegas. Didn't really see any regression, admittedly through one game.
What do you see his stats for next year?
14 6 2
42/32/68
Atrocious
I think people expecting Kobe-like progress from rookie year to 2nd year outside of just adding playing time are totally unrealistic.
Agreed. A lot of the kids here expect unrealistic stuff like that though. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Gotta account for lonzo's impact on everyone's game as well. I'd probably have him around 14-15 ppg without Lonzo as well, but with Lonzo and without Dlo, Ingram is now our number 1 perimeter scoring threat.
I have him around 18-20 ppg at around 45/35/?
Lonzo is gonna get him a few easy ones a game (maybe more) and kinda pad his #s and fg % a little
It's difficult to measure Lonzo's impact. It's odd to say, but Ingram and Lonzo have contrasting games right now. Ingram isn't as easy a catch and shoot player as Matt Thomas, Vander Blue, Kyle Kuzma, and others. The guys that succeeded the best with Lonzo, were. Ingram isn't the most prolific off-ball guy either, and Nwaba easily made the best of his off-ball abilities before being moved onto the Bulls.
It's also about the loss of Nick Young (odd to say). Nick was the #1 option on offense and DAR made sure he got his high percentage looks. Felt like Nick couldn't miss. Now, Nick is gone, DAR is gone, and there's the relative unpredictability of Zo's 3point ability. I think all of that crowds Ingram's ability in the halfcourt.
I don't expect Ingram to rim-run like I do JC, Kuzma, Randle, and others.
Honestly this is why the Lakers pulling Ingram out of SPL was a blessing in disguise for Zo. It allowed the team to play his pace/style no questions asked.
Ingram looked much improved in the iso aspect in that one game. But I would agree their styles contrast a bit at the moment. I think as the year goes on though Ingram will get better being a finisher on Lonzo's playmaking and will do a bit of playmaking himself
Where Ingram can have the most impact is the same spot that Hart did for a game or so, and definitely the same spot for Vander Blue. It's at that diagonal hit-ahead, or what I prefer to call, the advance pass. Teammate receives the ball roughly 30' away from the hoop with forward momentum. Defense is still retreating. This is the ideal spot for Ingram to get a change of direction from the start, take advantage of his long strides, and end up at the hoop.
Things would explode if he didn't even need to do that, but rather, could just pull up off-the-dribble for 3 without totally breaking form on forward momentum like Blue did the last several Vegas games.
It's going to be especially critical for players to learn to 1-2 step or hop into that 3pt. shots in semi transition.
YES!
Essentially any player that receives one of those advancing passes from Zo needs to be able to attack immediately
Gotta account for lonzo's impact on everyone's game as well. I'd probably have him around 14-15 ppg without Lonzo as well, but with Lonzo and without Dlo, Ingram is now our number 1 perimeter scoring threat.
I have him around 18-20 ppg at around 45/35/?
Lonzo is gonna get him a few easy ones a game (maybe more) and kinda pad his #s and fg % a little
It's difficult to measure Lonzo's impact. It's odd to say, but Ingram and Lonzo have contrasting games right now. Ingram isn't as easy a catch and shoot player as Matt Thomas, Vander Blue, Kyle Kuzma, and others. The guys that succeeded the best with Lonzo, were. Ingram isn't the most prolific off-ball guy either, and Nwaba easily made the best of his off-ball abilities before being moved onto the Bulls.
It's also about the loss of Nick Young (odd to say). Nick was the #1 option on offense and DAR made sure he got his high percentage looks. Felt like Nick couldn't miss. Now, Nick is gone, DAR is gone, and there's the relative unpredictability of Zo's 3point ability. I think all of that crowds Ingram's ability in the halfcourt.
I don't expect Ingram to rim-run like I do JC, Kuzma, Randle, and others.
Honestly this is why the Lakers pulling Ingram out of SPL was a blessing in disguise for Zo. It allowed the team to play his pace/style no questions asked.
Ingram looked much improved in the iso aspect in that one game. But I would agree their styles contrast a bit at the moment. I think as the year goes on though Ingram will get better being a finisher on Lonzo's playmaking and will do a bit of playmaking himself
Where Ingram can have the most impact is the same spot that Hart did for a game or so, and definitely the same spot for Vander Blue. It's at that diagonal hit-ahead, or what I prefer to call, the advance pass. Teammate receives the ball roughly 30' away from the hoop with forward momentum. Defense is still retreating. This is the ideal spot for Ingram to get a change of direction from the start, take advantage of his long strides, and end up at the hoop.
Things would explode if he didn't even need to do that, but rather, could just pull up off-the-dribble for 3 without totally breaking form on forward momentum like Blue did the last several Vegas games.
It's going to be especially critical for players to learn to 1-2 step or hop into that 3pt. shots in semi transition.
YES!
Essentially any player that receives one of those advancing passes from Zo needs to be able to attack immediately
I think Nick Young was also top 5 in the league in spot up 3 point shooting. Anyone want to confirm? _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
BI's expectations: 'He's going to be our end of the game playmaker.’
"because of BI's versatility, Luke will play him at the 1,2, & 3 and expect him to make big plays on both sides of the ball at those key times in the game
"BI has taken his work eithic and focus to another level this off season"
Pelinka also had good things to say about Kuz too _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
I don't want to sound overly optimistic but I can definitely see Ingram having a much bigger jump than we saw DLo from year 1 and year 2. I see Ingram with a pretty solid 17, 5, 4 on 45, 34, 70 percentages.
Luke gave BI a whole ton of minutes last year with a long leash. The front office has nothing but positive things to say about him. I can see him getting about 34 minutes a game. His added strength and experience in Luke's offense along with the Lonzo effect should help out his numbers as well. His shot looks a lot smoother and the form looks cleaner which I believe will really help his percentages and in turn help out his raw numbers.
I don't want to sound overly optimistic but I can definitely see Ingram having a much bigger jump than we saw DLo from year 1 and year 2. I see Ingram with a pretty solid 17, 5, 4 on 45, 34, 70 percentages.
Luke gave BI a whole ton of minutes last year with a long leash. The front office has nothing but positive things to say about him. I can see him getting about 34 minutes a game. His added strength and experience in Luke's offense along with the Lonzo effect should help out his numbers as well. His shot looks a lot smoother and the form looks cleaner which I believe will really help his percentages and in turn help out his raw numbers.
It is tough to compare because the sample size of one game isn't a sample size and while my expectations for Ingram ara high, I think this is the season where he assert himself as a player of this league, it is still year 3 where I expect the big jump
Russell improvement from first to second summer league was huge, look at his PER from one year to another and your jaw may drop.
I just want from Ingram to keep working hard and steadily improving, the results wll show in the due time.
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