Lakers Nation: Do you want LeBron?
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Do you support LeBron's potential arrival in 2018
Yes
49%
 49%  [ 67 ]
No
40%
 40%  [ 55 ]
Undecided
10%
 10%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 136

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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
If you're going to make the "you don't want to win" argument, how can you justify not moving Ingram/Ball to get pieces to win now?

We need to pick a strategy and stay the course. We playing the long game or not?


do combo of both, develop BI/Lonzo and try to compete now with the 2 max FA. The growth would be accelerated with the playoffs experiences. Plus having a LeBron and a say PG13 might not make the team the favorite but they'll be contender and have a chance vs no chance with the current team. The price to pay would be Randle and JC (maybe KCP also)


We should move Ball then too, get us a vet star or borderline star to compete NOW and actually have a chance to contend. Do you want to win or not? =)

Remember, CLE, according to most Laker fans, was a super team last year. Lebron and PG13 here with 20 yr olds doesn't make a super team. The CLE super team got absolutely manhandled by the GSW.

Without additional moves, our team isn't going to be better than the Cavs and we're in the impenetrable West remember? The conference where we have said Lebron cannot succeed in because its too hard for him.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
It's tough to debate you on the bolded considering it disagrees directly with what our FO has been saying. They consider Lonzo and Ingram untradable. They want LBJ, George, Ingram, and Ball all on the same team.
But I'll humor your argument.
if Ball or Ingram gets moved, it's because we got a complete stud in return. Giving us a big 3. Which is a good thing. No guarantee our young core grows into its own big 3. Chances are they won't. Take the sure thing and be happy (if this situation arises, which is not a guarantee).


1. The converse is that it is tough to debate you, and others like you, because you assume that Lebron will just come to the Lakers with no strings attached. The last seven years show that this is not the way that Lebron operates.

For example, Greenfrog brings up Space Jam 2. Sure, the movies might be an inducement for Lebron to come to LA. But he probably wouldn't even consider it otherwise. This does not mean that he wouldn't demand pre-conditions. That is not the way that Lebron operates.

2. Stuff that the front office says is written in water. If Lebron says "I will come if you trade for Joe Blow and Harry Schmoe," then the front office has to make a real decision. I have no idea who Lebron would want.

3. You assume that a trade would yield a big stud, but take a hard look at what Cleveland did. Kevin Love?
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
If you're going to make the "you don't want to win" argument, how can you justify not moving Ingram/Ball to get pieces to win now?

We need to pick a strategy and stay the course. We playing the long game or not?


do combo of both, develop BI/Lonzo and try to compete now with the 2 max FA. The growth would be accelerated with the playoffs experiences. Plus having a LeBron and a say PG13 might not make the team the favorite but they'll be contender and have a chance vs no chance with the current team. The price to pay would be Randle and JC (maybe KCP also)


We should move Ball then too, get us a vet star or borderline star to compete NOW and actually have a chance to contend. Do you want to win or not? =)

Remember, CLE, according to most Laker fans, was a super team last year. Lebron and PG13 here with 20 yr olds doesn't make a super team. The CLE super team got absolutely manhandled by the GSW.

Without additional moves, our team isn't going to be better than the Cavs and we're in the impenetrable West remember? The conference where we have said Lebron cannot succeed in because its too hard for him.


If we are fortunate enough to get both PG13/LeBron with BI/Lonzo at rookie scale, you can still make more moves without moving BI/Lonzo
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TDRock
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject:

I'd rather not be a part of LeBron's career world tour, but if he insists on coming to LA obviously I'd rather he come to us than the Paperclips.
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
It's tough to debate you on the bolded considering it disagrees directly with what our FO has been saying. They consider Lonzo and Ingram untradable. They want LBJ, George, Ingram, and Ball all on the same team.
But I'll humor your argument.
if Ball or Ingram gets moved, it's because we got a complete stud in return. Giving us a big 3. Which is a good thing. No guarantee our young core grows into its own big 3. Chances are they won't. Take the sure thing and be happy (if this situation arises, which is not a guarantee).


1. The converse is that it is tough to debate you, and others like you, because you assume that Lebron will just come to the Lakers with no strings attached. The last seven years show that this is not the way that Lebron operates.

For example, Greenfrog brings up Space Jam 2. Sure, the movies might be an inducement for Lebron to come to LA. But he probably wouldn't even consider it otherwise. This does not mean that he wouldn't demand pre-conditions. That is not the way that Lebron operates.

2. Stuff that the front office says is written in water. If Lebron says "I will come if you trade for Joe Blow and Harry Schmoe," then the front office has to make a real decision. I have no idea who Lebron would want.

3. You assume that a trade would yield a big stud, but take a hard look at what Cleveland did. Kevin Love?


The difference, I believe, is that his legacy is basically now set as a Top 3-5 all-time great, whereas that was not case prior to his last championship. That doesn't mean he's just going to coast and collect the paychecks, but I don't think he really has anything left to prove. He can enjoy his remaining years (which is better than most players' primes), be dominant, raise his family, and ride off into the sunset.
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Last edited by greenfrog on Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
The difference, I believe, is that his legacy is basically now set as a Top 3-5 all-time great, whereas that was not case prior his last championship. That doesn't mean he's just going to coast and collect the paychecks, but I don't think he really has anything left to prove. He can enjoy his twilight (which is better than most players' primes) and ride off into the sunset.


Well, I'm about talked out on this subject. I suspect that you understand why some of us find this less than persuasive. Who knows? You might be proven right next year.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:


The difference, I believe, is that his legacy is basically now set as a Top 3-5 all-time great, whereas that was not case prior to his last championship. That doesn't mean he's just going to coast and collect the paychecks, but I don't think he really has anything left to prove. He can enjoy his remaining years (which is better than most players' primes), be dominant, raise his family, and ride off into the sunset.


His legacy as top 3-5 all time was basically set after he won his last ring, but he still kept demanding his GM to put better players around him.

I have trouble buying the notion that Lebron's personality/approach is going to fundamentally change on this score a year from now.

But who knows -- a year in basketball time is an eternity, and for all we know things might change in a way that makes most of the points in this thread moot.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject:

I'd sign Lebron James, he'd be a magnet for other top notch free agents on discounted deals. He wants good players, we want good players. I could see that working somehow.
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
greenfrog wrote:


The difference, I believe, is that his legacy is basically now set as a Top 3-5 all-time great, whereas that was not case prior to his last championship. That doesn't mean he's just going to coast and collect the paychecks, but I don't think he really has anything left to prove. He can enjoy his remaining years (which is better than most players' primes), be dominant, raise his family, and ride off into the sunset.


His legacy as top 3-5 all time was basically set after he won his last ring, but he still kept demanding his GM to put better players around him.

I have trouble buying the notion that Lebron's personality/approach is going to fundamentally change on this score a year from now.

But who knows -- a year in basketball time is an eternity, and for all we know things might change in a way that makes most of the points in this thread moot.


He was trying to defend his/their title. I don't see a great sin there, but you're correct. Maybe he asked for too much. On the same token, he seemed totally at peace with their Finals' loss.
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deal
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject:

Wanting LeBron depends on the contract. I still doubt he leaves the Cav's a second time; it was a bad PR move then, don't know why he would want to repeat it...
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
If you're going to make the "you don't want to win" argument, how can you justify not moving Ingram/Ball to get pieces to win now?

We need to pick a strategy and stay the course. We playing the long game or not?


do combo of both, develop BI/Lonzo and try to compete now with the 2 max FA. The growth would be accelerated with the playoffs experiences. Plus having a LeBron and a say PG13 might not make the team the favorite but they'll be contender and have a chance vs no chance with the current team. The price to pay would be Randle and JC (maybe KCP also)


We should move Ball then too, get us a vet star or borderline star to compete NOW and actually have a chance to contend. Do you want to win or not? =)

Remember, CLE, according to most Laker fans, was a super team last year. Lebron and PG13 here with 20 yr olds doesn't make a super team. The CLE super team got absolutely manhandled by the GSW.

Without additional moves, our team isn't going to be better than the Cavs and we're in the impenetrable West remember? The conference where we have said Lebron cannot succeed in because its too hard for him.


If we are fortunate enough to get both PG13/LeBron with BI/Lonzo at rookie scale, you can still make more moves without moving BI/Lonzo


Sure. You can make moves with anyone. But you're going to need a Klay, a Draymond, and an Iggy at least.

How do you plan to get that caliber of player without Ball/Ingram and wishful thinking?
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