Tracy McGrady does not belong in the hall of fame
Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Tracy McGrady does not belong in the hall of fame

There. I said it.

Maybe he belongs in the Hall of Kind of Sometimes Good Players, but certainly not HOF material.

And not because he didn't get a ring. Not that.

He was pretty good, some of the time. He was not a legend and he wont be remembered as a legend, and to me that is what it means to be in the Hall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ocho
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 41556

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject:

The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.
_________________
14-5-3-12
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 6819

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject:

I think he's borderline too, along the line of Allen Iverson and Yao Ming... which of those 3 had the better career?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.


By the league's standards that got TMAC in there, there are about a million other dudes that should be granted entry.

Is Iman Shumpert gonna be in the Hall some day>? How about greg foster? He won a ring. Where does it end?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
unleasHell
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 8378
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject:

Agree, he was nothing special, there were 40 guys in the 80's that were easily as good as him, that are not in there...!
_________________
BRING ON THE DANCING HORSES...!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 28513

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.


By the league's standards that got TMAC in there, there are about a million other dudes that should be granted entry.

Is Iman Shumpert gonna be in the Hall some day>? How about greg foster? He won a ring. Where does it end?


Except this isn't the NBA Hall of Fame. This is the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. We have people who never played in the NBA that are inducted. The criteria is not just stats but how they contributed to the game of basketball.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27789
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Washington, DC

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject:

I agree with you. His actual contribution to the game of basketball and his legacy are both very little.

But I would say he's a near lock.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrbEjppnd4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Reply with quote
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.


By the league's standards that got TMAC in there, there are about a million other dudes that should be granted entry.

Is Iman Shumpert gonna be in the Hall some day>? How about greg foster? He won a ring. Where does it end?


Except this isn't the NBA Hall of Fame. This is the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. We have people who never played in the NBA that are inducted. The criteria is not just stats but how they contributed to the game of basketball.


OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 28513

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.


By the league's standards that got TMAC in there, there are about a million other dudes that should be granted entry.

Is Iman Shumpert gonna be in the Hall some day>? How about greg foster? He won a ring. Where does it end?


Except this isn't the NBA Hall of Fame. This is the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. We have people who never played in the NBA that are inducted. The criteria is not just stats but how they contributed to the game of basketball.


OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


Players like Iverson and Tmac get inducted because they were franchise players and had to carry the burden of their teams. Them being exceptional scorers and made multiple all star teams and won scoring championships no doubt helped their cause.
Putting out names like Iman Shumpert and Greg Foster....come on, you damn well why Tmac is way ahead of those guys.
As far as AC Green goes, most people who aren't familiar with the Lakers just remember him for his ironman streak. I don't think that gets him into the Hall of Fame.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.


By the league's standards that got TMAC in there, there are about a million other dudes that should be granted entry.

Is Iman Shumpert gonna be in the Hall some day>? How about greg foster? He won a ring. Where does it end?


Except this isn't the NBA Hall of Fame. This is the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. We have people who never played in the NBA that are inducted. The criteria is not just stats but how they contributed to the game of basketball.


OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


Players like Iverson and Tmac get inducted because they were franchise players and had to carry the burden of their teams. Them being exceptional scorers and made multiple all star teams and won scoring championships no doubt helped their cause.
Putting out names like Iman Shumpert and Greg Foster....come on, you damn well why Tmac is way ahead of those guys.
As far as AC Green goes, most people who aren't familiar with the Lakers just remember him for his ironman streak. I don't think that gets him into the Hall of Fame.


Clearly the Iman and Foster references were jokes, but the AC Green thing is real. He is one of the best ambassadors the game has, in addition to his streak. When I say he embodies the very qualities of what someone deserving of HOF enshrinement is, I think he has an excellent case.

TMAC and AI definitely have their merits. AI deserves it 100%. If I had to vote between TMAC and AC it wouldn't even be close.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 19186

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject:

TMac was a no brainer for the HoF. If you think otherwise, you haven't been paying attention to who has been getting elected.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 19186

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


AC Green made the all-star team once. He made second-team all-defense once. TMac was a seven time all star and made the all-NBA team seven times (first team twice). TMac has exponentially greater qualifications for the HOF than AC Green.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ocho
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 41556

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The issue is the chasm between what the Hall is and what individual fans wish it were. Judging by precedent, he has a good case. 7 consecutive All Star selections. Several All NBA selections. A couple scoring titles. I personally agree with your sentiment and wish the Hall were a bit more selective, but it is what it is. It wasn't even a controversial pick for the voters. He was a first ballot choice.


By the league's standards that got TMAC in there, there are about a million other dudes that should be granted entry.

Is Iman Shumpert gonna be in the Hall some day>? How about greg foster? He won a ring. Where does it end?


Except this isn't the NBA Hall of Fame. This is the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. We have people who never played in the NBA that are inducted. The criteria is not just stats but how they contributed to the game of basketball.


OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


Players like Iverson and Tmac get inducted because they were franchise players and had to carry the burden of their teams. Them being exceptional scorers and made multiple all star teams and won scoring championships no doubt helped their cause.
Putting out names like Iman Shumpert and Greg Foster....come on, you damn well why Tmac is way ahead of those guys.
As far as AC Green goes, most people who aren't familiar with the Lakers just remember him for his ironman streak. I don't think that gets him into the Hall of Fame.


Clearly the Iman and Foster references were jokes, but the AC Green thing is real. He is one of the best ambassadors the game has, in addition to his streak. When I say he embodies the very qualities of what someone deserving of HOF enshrinement is, I think he has an excellent case.

TMAC and AI definitely have their merits. AI deserves it 100%. If I had to vote between TMAC and AC it wouldn't even be close.


Its fine to have a different opinion as to how people should get in. That was the point of my last post. Everyone has a different idea. Id venture to guess most people would laugh at the idea of AC in the Hall. The thing about the actual HOF voters is theyre pretty consistent. Any perennial All Star/All NBA type player is an easy in.
_________________
14-5-3-12
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Bol
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2832

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject:

The standards for the basketball HoF are a joke. In a fair and just world, McGrady probably shouldn't have made it, certainly not first ballot. But compared to most of the nobodies they trotted out this year, he's an absolute legend. I mean, honestly, who's visiting the Hall of Fame to see Tom Jernstedt?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 28513

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
The standards for the basketball HoF are a joke. In a fair and just world, McGrady probably shouldn't have made it, certainly not first ballot. But compared to most of the nobodies they trotted out this year, he's an absolute legend. I mean, honestly, who's visiting the Hall of Fame to see Tom Jernstedt?


I think for any Hall of Fame you eventually run out of players who are automatic locks...There are just so many superstar players with championship credentials and usually those players have won multiple rings and have their own era. This applies to any Hall of Fame out there, whether it be the basketball, NFL, MLB, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

Bol wrote:
The standards for the basketball HoF are a joke. In a fair and just world, McGrady probably shouldn't have made it, certainly not first ballot. But compared to most of the nobodies they trotted out this year, he's an absolute legend. I mean, honestly, who's visiting the Hall of Fame to see Tom Jernstedt?


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


AC Green made the all-star team once. He made second-team all-defense once. TMac was a seven time all star and made the all-NBA team seven times (first team twice). TMac has exponentially greater qualifications for the HOF than AC Green.



TMAC was a much better player but AC has a record that will never be broken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 28513

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


AC Green made the all-star team once. He made second-team all-defense once. TMac was a seven time all star and made the all-NBA team seven times (first team twice). TMac has exponentially greater qualifications for the HOF than AC Green.



TMAC was a much better player but AC has a record that will never be broken.


Which one the Ironman streak or the Viginity streak?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10367

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
TMac was a no brainer for the HoF. If you think otherwise, you haven't been paying attention to who has been getting elected.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dubaholic1
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 2733
Location: Quality over Quantity

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
OK so by that logic how the hell is AC Green not in? I think of all the players not being considered, AC is the one that gets me the most upset about the selection process. TMAC was good, yes he was. But AC Green's record should represent the very definition of why someone is enshrined.


AC Green made the all-star team once. He made second-team all-defense once. TMac was a seven time all star and made the all-NBA team seven times (first team twice). TMac has exponentially greater qualifications for the HOF than AC Green.



TMAC was a much better player but AC has a record that will never be broken.


Which one the Ironman streak or the Viginity streak?


Food all over my computer from laughing thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DrWolf
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 336
Location: At the basketball court next to yours, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:

the 13 points in 13 seconds is the reason why he made it, find me a player that does that in that amount of time you'll see him the hall of fame as well
_________________
Phil Jackson GOAT
Indianapolis Colts
Los Angeles Dodgers
Los Angeles Kings

"Today I took a series of actions I believe will return the Lakers to the heights Dr. Jerry Buss demanded and our fans rightly expect," - JeanIe Buss 2/21/2017
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
70sdude
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4224

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject:

AC Green, seriously ?I can't imagine what he did that was special.

A nice player and a guy who played injured alot, sure, but he's someone who never stood out in a crowd talent-wise or accomplishment-wise or contribution-wise. There are many better team-players at his own position still waiting to get in from forty, thirty years back and more, as well as from time recently as well. Bobby Dandridge, Sidney Wicks, Hap Hairston and Shawn Marion lead the pack in this regard. When AC is inducted, the bar is set too damned low.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jonnybravo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 23074

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
AC Green, seriously ?I can't imagine what he did that was special.

A nice player and a guy who played injured alot, sure, but he's someone who never stood out in a crowd talent-wise or accomplishment-wise or contribution-wise. There are many better team-players at his own position still waiting to get in from forty, thirty years back and more, as well as from time recently as well. Bobby Dandridge, Sidney Wicks, Hap Hairston and Shawn Marion lead the pack in this regard. When AC is inducted, the bar is set too damned low.



AC Green getting voted into the All-Star game posting averages of 14/10 over Karl Malone and his 31/11 is one of the funniest snubs ever. Never underestimate the power of the Lakers fan base.
_________________
All Aboard the Paul George 2018 Train. CHOO CHOO!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 25063

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Reference has a good formula where they compare a HOF candidates qualifications against the qualifications of people who made the Hall.

McGrady has a 95.5% rating. For context, everyone player from the 60s on with a score of 80% or higher is in the Hall. So he was pretty much a cinch to make it.

I get that McGrady doesn't seem like a Hall of Famer. But that's true of half the guys in the Hall.

As someone else noted, the perception of who is in the Hall is much different than who actually is in it. There are a lot more Jamal Wilkes, Adrian Dantleys and Dave Bings in the Hall than MJs, Magics and Wilts in the Hall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
rwongega
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 19771
Location: UCLA -> NY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
AC Green, seriously ?I can't imagine what he did that was special.

A nice player and a guy who played injured alot, sure, but he's someone who never stood out in a crowd talent-wise or accomplishment-wise or contribution-wise. There are many better team-players at his own position still waiting to get in from forty, thirty years back and more, as well as from time recently as well. Bobby Dandridge, Sidney Wicks, Hap Hairston and Shawn Marion lead the pack in this regard. When AC is inducted, the bar is set too damned low.


It's the consecutive games played record of 1192. An enormous number that likely won't be beaten for a very very long time. 1986 to 2001 of consecutive games played is insane. The active streak right now is 277. Helps that he also had 3 rings.
_________________
http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg

RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg

Free KBCB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB