The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject:

On top of all the above, it is a big transition year we are heading into. Brewer and Lopez are on the last year of their deals. Randle is due a big raise and may not fit into the 2-max plan. Deng will most likely be bought out at the end of the season, so I think they will try to make people happy as well as try as win some games.

Deng I think is going to see some minutes, most likely as the backup SF. You have to figure with injuries, back to back games and long road trips, everyone including Deng is going to get an opportunity. With Deng's muscle injury, I wouldn't be surprised if he is on injured reserve to start the year too.

So many wild card issues; who do we get as free agents, will either Lopez or Randle be willing to stay on a cheap 1 year deal next year? I could see Lopez taking a bigger payday elsewhere, and Randle maybe taking the qualifying offer and being the stretch 5 center going forward. Then there is the battle for who will be the better defender Randle or Nance? Nance I think is going to stick around, if for no other reason, his deal like Zubac's is cheap.

And let's see how Kuzma does, we always project our players better than they are, but here's hoping he becomes that great stretch 4 PF we hope he can be.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: w

AFireInside619 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Deng is a bench warmer so he's out.

Easy solution for Kuzma is simply moving him as a backup SF or backup PF while Randle or Nance plays Center.


Deng was only a bench warmer when we were tanking. I see him getting time off the bench. It is always better to have more talent than to have less talent.


No Deng is still a bench warmer. Unless there's some magical fountain of youth you know about somewhere. We are running this season. Randle will start. Everyone loves Nance. Kuz showed incredible chemistry with Ball. Brewer's athleticism and constant energy both sides of the floor will probably earn him the back up 3 position. I seriously can't see where Deng will fit in. Plus he's 46 years old....


Old, injuried, out of shape, and sometimes the appearance of playing like he does not care will not warrant him getting any minutes.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject:

Can (And Should) The Lakers Resurrect Luol Deng?

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If Deng is going to increase his value heís going to have to prove that there is still some spring left in his step and that he can fill an important role. After all, teams around the league are desperate for wings who can play defense and hit threes, something Deng has shown an ability to do in the past.



http://www.lakersnation.com/can-and-should-the-lakers-resurrect-luol-deng/2017/09/10/
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: w

Megaton wrote:
Deng is a bench warmer so he's out.

Easy solution for Kuzma is simply moving him as a backup SF or backup PF while Randle or Nance plays Center.


Deng may have a bit more left in the tank than you think. I still think last years' performance was due to Luke's inability to fit him into the offense and the tank mode. The guy was playing solid basketball the year before. I think he is more suited to play the PF than SF. Wouldn't be surprised if he can give the Lakers 10-20 quality minutes per game at that spot.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: w

Goldenwest wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Deng is a bench warmer so he's out.

Easy solution for Kuzma is simply moving him as a backup SF or backup PF while Randle or Nance plays Center.


Deng may have a bit more left in the tank than you think. I still think last years' performance was due to Luke's inability to fit him into the offense and the tank mode. The guy was playing solid basketball the year before. I think he is more suited to play the PF than SF. Wouldn't be surprised if he can give the Lakers 10-20 quality minutes per game at that spot.


Deng better make a huge statement in training camp or he will be relegated to da pine!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have

pio2u wrote:
The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have. How will be minutes be doled out?
Thoughts, ideas, comments

The race for minutes at power forward will be tough for the Lakers


Quote:
Sometimes itís a gift and a curse to have an excess of players at a specific position. While itís a blessing due to options and different lineups you can run with, itís also a curse because everyone wants to play and if you have to keep guys happy. Luke Walton and the Los Angeles Lakers are in this boat with a lot of talent at the power forward position.


http://basketballsocietyonline.com/race-minutes-power-forward-position-tough-lakers

I would disagree with the statement that right now the Lakers have "a lot of talent at the power forward position." I would agree that they have a lot of potential. At this moment, however, none of the Lakers' PF's can reasonably be placed in the top half of the starting players at this position. In fact, it is easy to argue that both forward positions are the weakest links on a Lakers team that is very unlikely to make the playoffs (based on 2016-17 results). Hopefully, this is the year that one of the players "breaks out."
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: w

[quote="AFireInside619"][quote="venturalakersfan"]
Megaton wrote:
Deng is a bench warmer so he's out.

Brewer's athleticism and constant energy both sides of the floor will probably earn him the back up 3 position. I seriously can't see where Deng will fit in. Plus he's 46 years old....


The Mozgov and Deng signings we're really really stupid and I am not sure what motivated Mitch & Co. (when they were talking about saving cap space before acquiring those vets?) Did they panic and sign these guys to appear 'respectable?'

Anyway... your note here is good, but I don't see Brewer playing much except in a desperate move to create a disruptive defensive unit at times. He has a career of bad shooting, bad decision making and bad finishing. Athletic, energetic, sure... but he is a 14th man these days.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject:

Options are good at the start of a long season, as well as over the course of a season when injuries pop up or linger. I truly don't care which guys get which minutes outside of seeing Ingram and Ball on court in heavy minutes. They represent the Lakers' brightest possible future, on this roster anyway.

Whichever combinations and rotations produce the strongest possible team overall for the year - within the style of defense and scoring concepts Walton identified for the roster - that's what matters to me most. Play Ingram with Deng, play him with Randle, play him with Kuz or Nance. Test whatever other combinations seem lucrative enough to develop. Now's the time.

I think Deng or another PF will become attractive to teams making playoff charges towards trading deadlines. Send out whoever is not fitting in well.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: w

[quote="JM"][quote="AFireInside619"]
venturalakersfan wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Deng is a bench warmer so he's out.

Brewer's athleticism and constant energy both sides of the floor will probably earn him the back up 3 position. I seriously can't see where Deng will fit in. Plus he's 46 years old....


The Mozgov and Deng signings we're really really stupid and I am not sure what motivated Mitch & Co. (when they were talking about saving cap space before acquiring those vets?) Did they panic and sign these guys to appear 'respectable?'

Anyway... your note here is good, but I don't see Brewer playing much except in a desperate move to create a disruptive defensive unit at times. He has a career of bad shooting, bad decision making and bad finishing. Athletic, energetic, sure... but he is a 14th man these days.


As far as why Jim and Mitch made those signings, all I can think is that they got a little ahead of themselves thinking that we were GS-lite with Luke + DLO + BI + JU + Nance + JC etc. I also think they had in mind AD's free agency the year MozDeng came off the books.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: w

[quote="2019"][quote="JM"]
AFireInside619 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Deng is a bench warmer so he's out.

Brewer's athleticism and constant energy both sides of the floor will probably earn him the back up 3 position. I seriously can't see where Deng will fit in. Plus he's 46 years old....


The Mozgov and Deng signings we're really really stupid and I am not sure what motivated Mitch & Co. (when they were talking about saving cap space before acquiring those vets?) Did they panic and sign these guys to appear 'respectable?'

Anyway... your note here is good, but I don't see Brewer playing much except in a desperate move to create a disruptive defensive unit at times. He has a career of bad shooting, bad decision making and bad finishing. Athletic, energetic, sure... but he is a 14th man these days.


As far as why Jim and Mitch made those signings, all I can think is that they got a little ahead of themselves thinking that we were GS-lite with Luke + DLO + BI + JU + Nance + JC etc. I also think they had in mind AD's free agency the year MozDeng came off the books.


The way they structured all those deals with a $1m dip occurring this summer would suggest they had some big fish in their immediate sights. I think it may have been Westbrook, but he took himself off the market with an extension to OKC.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have

Annihilator wrote:
pio2u wrote:
The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have. How will be minutes be doled out?
Thoughts, ideas, comments

The race for minutes at power forward will be tough for the Lakers


Quote:
Sometimes itís a gift and a curse to have an excess of players at a specific position. While itís a blessing due to options and different lineups you can run with, itís also a curse because everyone wants to play and if you have to keep guys happy. Luke Walton and the Los Angeles Lakers are in this boat with a lot of talent at the power forward position.


http://basketballsocietyonline.com/race-minutes-power-forward-position-tough-lakers

I would disagree with the statement that right now the Lakers have "a lot of talent at the power forward position." I would agree that they have a lot of potential. At this moment, however, none of the Lakers' PF's can reasonably be placed in the top half of the starting players at this position. In fact, it is easy to argue that both forward positions are the weakest links on a Lakers team that is very unlikely to make the playoffs (based on 2016-17 results). Hopefully, this is the year that one of the players "breaks out."


Isn't talent an inherent thing regardless if it's actualized?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

I suspect Kuzma can get a few minutes at both forward spots. Unless Nance bucks his tendencies, I'd expect Deng, Kuzma and Zubacs all to get more minutes when Junior is out with injury. It would speak volumes about both players' impact or lack thereof if a rookie Kuzma is able to get more burn than a vet like Luol - especially when Rob and Magic are continually harping on the need for the team to up their defense across the board.

Deng is hated on for obvious reasons. But, it's not his fault. He would have been a fool not to take the contract that Jim & Mitch offered. He's not wanted by any team at 18 million per and not as a starter regardless of the salary. However, he's a good vet to have both on the bench and in the locker room for a young team. So, until they find a trade dump partner or decide to stretch him, he'll fill the role the team requires of him.

The only way he'll be stuck on the bench entirely is if everyone including Nance stays healthy, Kuzma plays so well that Luke keeps him in the rotation and Brewer does the same. That's a lot of if's. I don't expect to see Deng getting a bunch of minutes. But, I do expect that we'll see him playing spot minutes on a relatively consistent basis. Moreso if others are injured.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have

Roon wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
pio2u wrote:
The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have. How will be minutes be doled out?
Thoughts, ideas, comments

The race for minutes at power forward will be tough for the Lakers


Quote:
Sometimes itís a gift and a curse to have an excess of players at a specific position. While itís a blessing due to options and different lineups you can run with, itís also a curse because everyone wants to play and if you have to keep guys happy. Luke Walton and the Los Angeles Lakers are in this boat with a lot of talent at the power forward position.


http://basketballsocietyonline.com/race-minutes-power-forward-position-tough-lakers

I would disagree with the statement that right now the Lakers have "a lot of talent at the power forward position." I would agree that they have a lot of potential. At this moment, however, none of the Lakers' PF's can reasonably be placed in the top half of the starting players at this position. In fact, it is easy to argue that both forward positions are the weakest links on a Lakers team that is very unlikely to make the playoffs (based on 2016-17 results). Hopefully, this is the year that one of the players "breaks out."


Isn't talent an inherent thing regardless if it's actualized?

From my perspective, talents can be developed. I believe that people can learn how to draw, think logically, be people-friendly, or play active NBA-caliber defense (depending on motivations). Potential might be inherent.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Randle and Nance are two of the most versatile players on the team.
Randle is the superior athlete and the incumbent starter but Nance does all the little things and plays better defense than Randle.

It's going to be interesting to see if Randle can hold off Nance.
Both will come to training camp very much improved. It will be a spirited competition. .......................Are we there yet???


I disagree with this statement. Nance broke the vertical leap measuring pole and that dunk over his now team mate Lopez is beyond Randle's athletic ability.

Randle maybe speedy for his size, but he is not a good leaper or finisher at the rim. He also lack lateral speed to stay in front of the people he is supposed to be guarding.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Randle and Nance are two of the most versatile players on the team.
Randle is the superior athlete and the incumbent starter but Nance does all the little things and plays better defense than Randle.

It's going to be interesting to see if Randle can hold off Nance.
Both will come to training camp very much improved. It will be a spirited competition. .......................Are we there yet???


I disagree with this statement. Nance broke the vertical leap measuring pole and that dunk over his now team mate Lopez is beyond Randle's athletic ability.

Randle maybe speedy for his size, but he is not a good leaper or finisher at the rim. He also lack lateral speed to stay in front of the people he is supposed to be guarding.


Actually meant to say "projected upside" instead of overall athleticism (was too tired to type at the time). They both are great athletes in different ways.
Like I said it's going to be an interesting situation. It will be quite a battle for PF minutes particularly between those two. Fortunately "iron sharpens iron."
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have

Annihilator wrote:
Roon wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
pio2u wrote:
The Lakers have a logjam at PF and it's a good problem to have. How will be minutes be doled out?
Thoughts, ideas, comments

The race for minutes at power forward will be tough for the Lakers


Quote:
Sometimes itís a gift and a curse to have an excess of players at a specific position. While itís a blessing due to options and different lineups you can run with, itís also a curse because everyone wants to play and if you have to keep guys happy. Luke Walton and the Los Angeles Lakers are in this boat with a lot of talent at the power forward position.


http://basketballsocietyonline.com/race-minutes-power-forward-position-tough-lakers

I would disagree with the statement that right now the Lakers have "a lot of talent at the power forward position." I would agree that they have a lot of potential. At this moment, however, none of the Lakers' PF's can reasonably be placed in the top half of the starting players at this position. In fact, it is easy to argue that both forward positions are the weakest links on a Lakers team that is very unlikely to make the playoffs (based on 2016-17 results). Hopefully, this is the year that one of the players "breaks out."


Isn't talent an inherent thing regardless if it's actualized?

From my perspective, talents can be developed. I believe that people can learn how to draw, think logically, be people-friendly, or play active NBA-caliber defense (depending on motivations). Potential might be inherent.


I'd say those are skills vs talents, where if person A or B work just at hard at drawing, the one more talented will be better at drawing.

It's just words at this point, but I believe when the OG poster posited talent, he posited the talent potential, which is high, even if it's not realized currently.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Randle and Nance are two of the most versatile players on the team.
Randle is the superior athlete and the incumbent starter but Nance does all the little things and plays better defense than Randle.

It's going to be interesting to see if Randle can hold off Nance.
Both will come to training camp very much improved. It will be a spirited competition. .......................Are we there yet???


I disagree with this statement. Nance broke the vertical leap measuring pole and that dunk over his now team mate Lopez is beyond Randle's athletic ability.

Randle maybe speedy for his size, but he is not a good leaper or finisher at the rim. He also lack lateral speed to stay in front of the people he is supposed to be guarding.


Nance can jump higher and quicker, for sure. Randle has a quicker first step, straight line speed, vertical movement, and can change direction better than Nance. That's all while being 30+ pounds heavier.

Randle is not a bad leaper and should grow into it more as he continues his conditioning and is further away from foot surgery/broken leg.

It's been posted before, but there's a whole list of good-great players that Julius finished at a higher percentage at the rim than last year. I'll be surprised if him being a poor finisher at the rim is still a thing by the end of this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:

It should be interesting. Between Randle, Nance Jr., and Kuzma we have three different fits.

Randle is the most physically talented, but probably the worst fit when it comes to role players (poor outside shooting and defense)

Nance Jr. would be 2nd on the list - smart, fundamental player, but not an offensive threat

Kuzma, all we have is Summer League, but if he can shoot like that (and based on his college shooting, it may have just been a hot streak), it's going to be hard to keep him off the floor. His defense will need to improve.

I think long-term, I'd go with:

Kuzma
Nance Jr.
Randle (I think Randle is 100% gone personally)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject:

This nomenclature of labeling attributes as talent or skill or athleticism (etc.) is a common stumbling point in sports talk.

I liked how John Wooden put it:

"Talent is seen in the performance, the actual demonstration of the aggregate of things both physical and mental. Skills are largely acquired through repetition and are learned through training, but clearly not everyone has the same aptitude for learning any one particular skill or set of skills. Some of us have physical advantages that may predispose us to perform some things more easily than may so for others. Perhaps there are hidden aspects within each of us that similarly predispose each of us to learn things differently too. As a teacher, I see different learning rates as often as I see different rates of physical change. Take what we call the action of jumping, for example. It seems purely physical but it's not. Jumping straight up and reaching is one thing, but think about how it's done. How quickly does one decide to get off the floor ? It matters if you have to gather for a first jump or not, then how about the second, third or fourth consecutive jump ? There's the aspect of gathering or not gathering for a jump, but some of that is decision-making and some of that is bound by one's physical condition, size, level of finess. Jumping starts with a decision to attempt a trained or innate response to the situation. Landing with good balance and body control is just as important too. Some of that is skill and some of the skill involved is learned from training. But the skill and the athleticism involved is witnessed together, which I choose to encompass as one thing, in the word talent. I find it difficult to separate the parts of talent into greater precision than into the combination of skill and athleticism so to speak. Language is inexact. Talent is seen in the doing of things."
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
It should be interesting. Between Randle, Nance Jr., and Kuzma we have three different fits.

Randle is the most physically talented, but probably the worst fit when it comes to role players (poor outside shooting and defense)

Nance Jr. would be 2nd on the list - smart, fundamental player, but not an offensive threat

Kuzma, all we have is Summer League, but if he can shoot like that (and based on his college shooting, it may have just been a hot streak), it's going to be hard to keep him off the floor. His defense will need to improve.

I think long-term, I'd go with:

Kuzma
Nance Jr.
Randle (I think Randle is 100% gone personally)


Agree with most of what your are saying and your ranking. But I don't think that Kuz's shooting was a hot streak. The kid put in the work and he is a damn good shooter now. He said that the college 3 point line was too close for and the court was too congested. Once he moved to the NBA 3 he has been shooting lights out, from the conbine to the pre-draft workouts and then onto the summer league.

I think that Nance will let it fly more often as well.

As y'all know I am skeptical of Randle becoming a decent defender due to his poor attitude lack of effort on that end. I think he will shoot better because he seems to like offense and does not give a damn about stopping people. So yeah, it will be a slug fest for minutes at the PF slot this year, should be entertaining! I hope JR proves me wrong!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:

I predict Nance will have a breakout year this year.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject:

I think Kuzma is a perfect smallforward for Lonzo. Run the floor, space the floor and straight line slashing. Kuzma is a basketball player...I think he can legit play 3-5 situationally
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject:

Ben Vereen wrote:
I predict Nance will have a breakout year this year.


Agree I think nance and randle will

Randle turns into a Allstar and nance a defensive stopper. Nance is gonna be a beast on defense for us
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject:

Luke gonna run that all power forward lineup

Point Power Forward: Julius
Shooting Power Forward: Kuzma
Power Small Forward: Ingram
Power Power Forward: Deng
Power Center: Nance
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Luke gonna run that all power forward lineup

Point Power Forward: Julius
Shooting Power Forward: Kuzma
Power Small Forward: Ingram
Power Power Forward: Deng
Power Center: Nance


This could actually work
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