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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | jmnluvr wrote: | I'm fine with giving him a chance to mature, but right now it feels like he is regressing. If we're going to wait this out he needs to be making slow steady progress, skill by skill. |
He isn't regressing. He was never as far along as Magic and a lot of fans made him out to be in the first place. This whole thing was a feedback loop of hype and the backlash against him is a result of absurd evaluations in the first place. People are finally waking up to what's been the reality all along. |
I'm being nitpicky, but I'd say he has regressed so far this preseason except for the first three quarters last night because he's also bought into Magic's hype and took the wrong lessons away from his improved performance to end last season. We need to set more realistic expectations, but he also needs to ignore the 20ppg hype and recalibrate his game...or else he will be a bust. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I actually thought BI was pretty good for most of the game until he started doing the "put the head down and barrel in" stuff. He's got this thing in his head that he's supposed to "take over" during the 4th quarter and lead us to victory.
NO! STOP THAT! Stop doing that! We've got guys that can score and BI has some pretty decent passing ability. If the shot is there and he takes it and misses, fine but especially when we get Lonzo back, stop the mindset that HE is supposed to lead us to victory, let us get a better shot off than him barreling towards the rim into 2-3 defenders. |
I hear John Oliver in my head... |
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HumanVictoryCigar Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 7601
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I actually thought BI was pretty good for most of the game until he started doing the "put the head down and barrel in" stuff. He's got this thing in his head that he's supposed to "take over" during the 4th quarter and lead us to victory.
NO! STOP THAT! Stop doing that! We've got guys that can score and BI has some pretty decent passing ability. If the shot is there and he takes it and misses, fine but especially when we get Lonzo back, stop the mindset that HE is supposed to lead us to victory, let us get a better shot off than him barreling towards the rim into 2-3 defenders. |
I hear John Oliver in my head... |
very good, very good. |
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RCS926 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 16824
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | jmnluvr wrote: | I'm fine with giving him a chance to mature, but right now it feels like he is regressing. If we're going to wait this out he needs to be making slow steady progress, skill by skill. |
He isn't regressing. He was never as far along as Magic and a lot of fans made him out to be in the first place. This whole thing was a feedback loop of hype and the backlash against him is a result of absurd evaluations in the first place. People are finally waking up to what's been the reality all along. |
Yup. He needs a lot of development still in terms of technique, skill and strength, and I believe he's improved in all those areas since last season. However, he looks worse out there because he's trying to do a lot more than he was last season. There's no reason why he can't be a serviceable rotation player for us this season. It's up to the coaching staff and, to a lesser extent, management to put him in the best place to succeed. BI can have a successful sophomore season without being the man on this team. He simply is ready for that role yet. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Gimme_the_rock wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | I actually remember MJST always talking about players who should stay in school... have to agree on Ingram. |
Easy for us to say. If you were the consensus #2, would you stay? |
Yea I don't really buy it as a realistic option.. But to play devils advocate - if Ingram was guaranteed health, I think he might've strongly considered staying if he knew he'd be playing this badly his first two seasons. Playing horribly, every night being a struggle to be decent - is not fun, as the Lakers brass has alluded to (telling him to have fun). It must be stressful for a young kid. Completely amplified by Magic's comments, too |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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pio2u wrote: | The good news is that there is nowhere to go but up; also it's pre-season, ..... glorified practice. |
And the right part of the season to work on adding things to your game _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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From Emplay's latest article:
In the meantime, Ingram has his teammates' support. "We're by no means worried. We know what he can do and what he's capable of," Brook Lopez said. "We've seen it in practice and summer league. We have the utmost, ultimate confidence in [Ingram]."
and:
Walton hopes to guide Ingram through a difficult time. "I think he wants to be great so badly, and he's worked so hard that he wants to show everyone how good he is," Walton said. "He's trying to do too much."
So just chill folks. The kid is pressing. He will relax some and start putting up the numbers. His teammates practice with him and know what he can do. They are not giving up on him and neither should we. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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HumanVictoryCigar Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 7601
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | From Emplay's latest article:
In the meantime, Ingram has his teammates' support. "We're by no means worried. We know what he can do and what he's capable of," Brook Lopez said. "We've seen it in practice and summer league. We have the utmost, ultimate confidence in [Ingram]."
and:
Walton hopes to guide Ingram through a difficult time. "I think he wants to be great so badly, and he's worked so hard that he wants to show everyone how good he is," Walton said. "He's trying to do too much."
So just chill folks. The kid is pressing. He will relax some and start putting up the numbers. His teammates practice with him and know what he can do. They are not giving up on him and neither should we. |
he's not talking to the right people
http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-are-expectations-for-brandon-ingram-too-high-this-season/2017/10/10/
“One team source acknowledged that expectations may have been set too high for Ingram—that even 14 or 15 points per game seemed optimistic in the short term.” |
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Lakesh0wtime Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 5351
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | From Emplay's latest article:
In the meantime, Ingram has his teammates' support. "We're by no means worried. We know what he can do and what he's capable of," Brook Lopez said. "We've seen it in practice and summer league. We have the utmost, ultimate confidence in [Ingram]."
and:
Walton hopes to guide Ingram through a difficult time. "I think he wants to be great so badly, and he's worked so hard that he wants to show everyone how good he is," Walton said. "He's trying to do too much."
So just chill folks. The kid is pressing. He will relax some and start putting up the numbers. His teammates practice with him and know what he can do. They are not giving up on him and neither should we. |
he's not talking to the right people
http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-are-expectations-for-brandon-ingram-too-high-this-season/2017/10/10/
“One team source acknowledged that expectations may have been set too high for Ingram—that even 14 or 15 points per game seemed optimistic in the short term.” |
Except that lakersnation article you posted is in reference to Emplay's article LOL SMH. Try reading first bro.
Last edited by Lakesh0wtime on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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lol |
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DLaker Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 1539
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Give this 20 year old kid a break. Can we be more positive. I saw improvement from his last 4 pre season games. He still took bad shot in the end but for the most part he took what the defense gave him. Hope for a more relax Ingram moving forward. |
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12 Star Player
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Posts: 8617
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Holy moly! |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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DLaker wrote: | Give this 20 year old kid a break. Can we be more positive. I saw improvement from his last 4 pre season games. He still took bad shot in the end but for the most part he took what the defense gave him. Hope for a more relax Ingram moving forward. |
If the Lakers drafted Brandon Knight one year out of one year at Kentucky and he had an okay rookie season, and then Lakers drafted Damian Lillard the next off-season and he showed in pre-season that he was currently better in every way than Knight, would you start the better player in Lillard despite the fact he's 2 years older, or would you stay with Brandon Knight and hope he eventually figures it out? _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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12 Star Player
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Posts: 8617
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | DLaker wrote: | Give this 20 year old kid a break. Can we be more positive. I saw improvement from his last 4 pre season games. He still took bad shot in the end but for the most part he took what the defense gave him. Hope for a more relax Ingram moving forward. |
If the Lakers drafted Brandon Knight one year out of one year at Kentucky and he had an okay rookie season, and then Lakers drafted Damian Lillard the next off-season and he showed in pre-season that he was currently better in every way than Knight, would you start the better player in Lillard despite the fact he's 2 years older, or would you stay with Brandon Knight and hope he eventually figures it out? |
I feel like I get dumber every time I read one of your posts... |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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12 wrote: | MJST wrote: | DLaker wrote: | Give this 20 year old kid a break. Can we be more positive. I saw improvement from his last 4 pre season games. He still took bad shot in the end but for the most part he took what the defense gave him. Hope for a more relax Ingram moving forward. |
If the Lakers drafted Brandon Knight one year out of one year at Kentucky and he had an okay rookie season, and then Lakers drafted Damian Lillard the next off-season and he showed in pre-season that he was currently better in every way than Knight, would you start the better player in Lillard despite the fact he's 2 years older, or would you stay with Brandon Knight and hope he eventually figures it out? |
I feel like I get dumber every time I read one of your posts... |
Allow me to rid you of the burden of doing so for a while then. |
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DLaker Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 1539
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | DLaker wrote: | Give this 20 year old kid a break. Can we be more positive. I saw improvement from his last 4 pre season games. He still took bad shot in the end but for the most part he took what the defense gave him. Hope for a more relax Ingram moving forward. |
If the Lakers drafted Brandon Knight one year out of one year at Kentucky and he had an okay rookie season, and then Lakers drafted Damian Lillard the next off-season and he showed in pre-season that he was currently better in every way than Knight, would you start the better player in Lillard despite the fact he's 2 years older, or would you stay with Brandon Knight and hope he eventually figures it out? |
Lost you MJST. If you are talking about Kuz starting in front of Ingram, I have no problem. Kuz is 22 and is more polished from what I see. I was more disappointed at the Lakers fan being so down on a 20 year old kid. I just want to see improvement from him this year and it does not have to be at the beginning of the year. |
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Lakesh0wtime Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 5351
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Lakesh0wtime wrote: | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | From Emplay's latest article:
In the meantime, Ingram has his teammates' support. "We're by no means worried. We know what he can do and what he's capable of," Brook Lopez said. "We've seen it in practice and summer league. We have the utmost, ultimate confidence in [Ingram]."
and:
Walton hopes to guide Ingram through a difficult time. "I think he wants to be great so badly, and he's worked so hard that he wants to show everyone how good he is," Walton said. "He's trying to do too much."
So just chill folks. The kid is pressing. He will relax some and start putting up the numbers. His teammates practice with him and know what he can do. They are not giving up on him and neither should we. |
he's not talking to the right people
http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-are-expectations-for-brandon-ingram-too-high-this-season/2017/10/10/
“One team source acknowledged that expectations may have been set too high for Ingram—that even 14 or 15 points per game seemed optimistic in the short term.” |
Except that lakersnation article you posted is in reference to Emplay's article LOL SMH. Try reading first bro. |
wonder what his response will be lol |
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watchME Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2011 Posts: 3384
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.
the future is:
PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle
i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.
If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.
But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.
Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10801
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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watchME wrote: | Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.
the future is:
PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle
i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.
If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.
But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.
Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba |
I respect your optimism on Ingram's scoring but I never see more than 22ppg. It's only one basket away but crossing or meeting the threshold of 25 seems insane.
Ironically, Kuz may be the our current young guy who can score big one day.
Also, I hope PG actually considers leaving OKC at this point. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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People assume he is going to get stronger but I just don't see his body type filling out very much. He gets knocked off his route so to speak too easily. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | watchME wrote: | Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.
the future is:
PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle
i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.
If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.
But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.
Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba |
I respect your optimism on Ingram's scoring but I never see more than 22ppg. It's only one basket away but crossing or meeting the threshold of 25 seems insane.
Ironically, Kuz may be the our current young guy who can score big one day.
Also, I hope PG actually considers leaving OKC at this point. |
PG13 has never averaged more than 23ppg in any season as the primary option in Indy, and he's the upper bounds for Ingram as a scorer, imo. Ingram just hasn't shown the ability to put up enough good shots per game so far in his career to project him to be a 25ppg scorer unless he plays 40 mpg.
Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17876
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | 2019 wrote: | watchME wrote: | Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.
the future is:
PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle
i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.
If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.
But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.
Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba |
I respect your optimism on Ingram's scoring but I never see more than 22ppg. It's only one basket away but crossing or meeting the threshold of 25 seems insane.
Ironically, Kuz may be the our current young guy who can score big one day.
Also, I hope PG actually considers leaving OKC at this point. |
PG13 has never averaged more than 23ppg in any season as the primary option in Indy, and he's the upper bounds for Ingram as a scorer, imo. Ingram just hasn't shown the ability to put up enough good shots per game so far in his career to project him to be a 25ppg scorer unless he plays 40 mpg.
Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots. |
Perfectly said, BVH. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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^ Danke, tox!
Hope you're doing well. Even with BI's early struggles, I'm more optimistic for this season than I have been since 2013. That probably means only 31 wins or thereabouts with some ugly losses here and there, but it should be fun to see Ball develop while Lopez hopefully plays at a near All-Star level, which should help Brandon and the other young guys settle in over the year. |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".
I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46638
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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trablos wrote: | I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".
I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better. |
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