OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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watchME
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
2019 wrote:
watchME wrote:
Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.


the future is:

PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle

i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.

If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.


But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.

Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba


I respect your optimism on Ingram's scoring but I never see more than 22ppg. It's only one basket away but crossing or meeting the threshold of 25 seems insane.

Ironically, Kuz may be the our current young guy who can score big one day.

Also, I hope PG actually considers leaving OKC at this point.

PG13 has never averaged more than 23ppg in any season as the primary option in Indy, and he's the upper bounds for Ingram as a scorer, imo. Ingram just hasn't shown the ability to put up enough good shots per game so far in his career to project him to be a 25ppg scorer unless he plays 40 mpg.

Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots.
Way too often PG13 settles for long jumpers, he also doesnt have the mamba mindset.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




That certain young SG was FAAAAAARRR more skilled and athletically gifted as a senior in high school than BI is right now. Not a good comparison. You can have a "Mamba Mentality" all you want, but if you don't have the ungodly skill to back it up like the OG had, it's absolutely useless.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
2019 wrote:
watchME wrote:
Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.


the future is:

PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle

i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.

If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.


But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.

Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba


I respect your optimism on Ingram's scoring but I never see more than 22ppg. It's only one basket away but crossing or meeting the threshold of 25 seems insane.

Ironically, Kuz may be the our current young guy who can score big one day.

Also, I hope PG actually considers leaving OKC at this point.

PG13 has never averaged more than 23ppg in any season as the primary option in Indy, and he's the upper bounds for Ingram as a scorer, imo. Ingram just hasn't shown the ability to put up enough good shots per game so far in his career to project him to be a 25ppg scorer unless he plays 40 mpg.

Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots.
Way too often PG13 settles for long jumpers, he also doesnt have the mamba mindset.

But Kobe was the king of settling for long, often contested jumpers. And I've seen PG13 in the playoffs enough to know he's got a killer mentality, he just doesn't have #8's athletic gifts or #24's refined skillset (which no player has had).

I haven't seen a "Mamba mentality" from BI outside of one summer league game, and the success of his game is going to be dependent on being able to take and make long jumpers, imo.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots.


Was thinking about this while watching Malik Monk tonight. Both guys are just threats all over the floor, and it just seems that they're both confident that every location is their shot and they can get the shot off comfortably.

This isn't like, if I'm BI, I need to be at the rim, or set up a guy in the post, or get to the elbow. Seems really limited

Both Monk and Kuzma look like they have similar approaches to scoring. Always with the shot fakes and jab steps wherever they are on the floor, and have enough shot volume/accuracy to prove themselves as an offensive threat in those areas.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject:

12 wrote:
MJST wrote:
DLaker wrote:
Give this 20 year old kid a break. Can we be more positive. I saw improvement from his last 4 pre season games. He still took bad shot in the end but for the most part he took what the defense gave him. Hope for a more relax Ingram moving forward.


If the Lakers drafted Brandon Knight one year out of one year at Kentucky and he had an okay rookie season, and then Lakers drafted Damian Lillard the next off-season and he showed in pre-season that he was currently better in every way than Knight, would you start the better player in Lillard despite the fact he's 2 years older, or would you stay with Brandon Knight and hope he eventually figures it out?


I feel like I get dumber every time I read one of your posts...


I see no lies in his post.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




Lmao that SG was more skilled and athletic at 17 than Ingram at 20. Let's not be ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




Lmao that SG was more skilled and athletic at 17 than Ingram at 20. Let's not be ridiculous.


Just one of the reasons why it was grossly unfair to expect 20ppg this season.

I don't even like the idea that there are fans that expect him to be "Kobe-like" and just take over scoring like that.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject:

I guess after Dlo got traded everyone had to start hating on someone...sucks that it’s BI. Was hoping everyone would just turn on Randle instead
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject:

BigBallerBrand wrote:
I guess after Dlo got traded everyone had to start hating on someone...sucks that it’s BI. Was hoping everyone would just turn on Randle instead


Not that they didn't try. Why would you hope for them to turn on anyone anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
I guess after Dlo got traded everyone had to start hating on someone...sucks that it’s BI. Was hoping everyone would just turn on Randle instead


Not that they didn't try. Why would you hope for them to turn on anyone anyway.


There are certain expectations from no 2 picks. No one is expecting Ingram to light it up but what he has shown is what you would expect from a late second rounder let alone a second pick overall.

I mean if he didn’t look like a lamb among wolves when he plays people would be a lot more forgiving.

Regarding talent what is talent? Kuzma at age 22 is where he is because of talent surely. Was he working as hard as Ingram age 20, probably not yet here we are. Is kuzma more talented as a result to be where he is right now?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
KBH wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




Lmao that SG was more skilled and athletic at 17 than Ingram at 20. Let's not be ridiculous.


Just one of the reasons why it was grossly unfair to expect 20ppg this season.

I don't even like the idea that there are fans that expect him to be "Kobe-like" and just take over scoring like that.


Because Magic said so and magic is a basketball genius
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots.


Was thinking about this while watching Malik Monk tonight. Both guys are just threats all over the floor, and it just seems that they're both confident that every location is their shot and they can get the shot off comfortably.

This isn't like, if I'm BI, I need to be at the rim, or set up a guy in the post, or get to the elbow. Seems really limited

Both Monk and Kuzma look like they have similar approaches to scoring. Always with the shot fakes and jab steps wherever they are on the floor, and have enough shot volume/accuracy to prove themselves as an offensive threat in those areas.

As GT has posted many times, volume is such a key indicator of future scoring potential in young guys, and Monk and Kuzma find ways to get a volume of good shots up all over the court with skill and confidence.

Conversely, Ingram's scoring looks like a struggle more often than not, and he lacks a variety of shots as you note. Hopefully he gets there, but it's going to take a few more years of really hard work - a guy like Derozan is a positive example of someone who efforted his way into being a skilled, diverse scorer over time, so it can be done.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject:

If you're hating on Ingram at this point in his career, you're foolish.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
So it's pretty damn obvious now that Magic's expectations he put on BI before the season and all the hype has hindered his game tremendously so far. Luke needs to reel him back in and tell him to just play within the flow of the offense and make the smart plays. He's not a good ISO scorer right now. The kid has great court vision, he should be utilizing that more and do less off the dribble 1 on 1 plays. He just too weak right now to be taking dudes off the dribble consistently.



Doubt that's gonna happen. Luke last night was giving him credit and saying he liked how he played in the 4th last night. It's obvious they aren't gonna actually punish Ingram for bad play and are going to coddle and force him to try to be "the guy". Brandon hasn't had fun since the pre-season started.


Which would be the right way to develop him. Punishing him for bad play would not do him or the Lakers any good. It’s still preseason, our squad hasn’t been in full health. Guys going in and out of the lineup, it’s inevitable that Brandon will eventually get better, let him continue to get his reps and learn from his mistakes.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
lakers4sho wrote:
If he doesn't break down, his peak is probably some form of Eddie Jones lite


That would be a bust IMHO -- I believe he'll surpass that skillset


Eddie Jones as a peak would be fantastic. But I suppose if you're comparing him to Kevin Durant, that's a "bust." Not everyone is destined to be a superstar, and I'm far from convinced BI will be one.


Eddie was my fav. laker and was pissed when he was traded.
But he said Eddie Jones lite...which means 20< ppg in prime, less defense, even LESS clutch. That I would consider very close to being a bust.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:

DangeRuss wrote:
If you're hating on Ingram at this point in his career, you're foolish.


Is it hating if I call him BrickGram cos he’s been throwing up a lot of bricks lately hehe

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject:

I’m 100% sure kuzma is outplaying him and its causing alot of unrational ideas about benching the face of this franchise. Also you guys seem to forget Randle is most likely gone this summer and then we will need a stretch for to help Lonzo with spacing.. who? Kuzma.

PG.BALL
SF/SG.INGRAM
PF.KUZMA
MAX
MAX

The celtics who have a top 3 coach is starting tatum. Don’t tell me tatum is stronger because i’ll laugh. Next to Holford who is an OK rebounder.


We are bless to have Ingram and Kuzma.. You add a guy like PG13 and you have 3. guys who can run with Ball
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject:

Coach Luke Walton said Ingram is likely putting too much pressure on himself and, as a result, struggling.

Quote:
“He wants to be great so bad and he’s worked so hard that he wants to show everyone how good he is,” Walton said.
“I think because of that he’s had some possessions where he definitely is trying to do too much.

Quote:
Ohm Youngmisuk
ESPN Staff Writer

Brandon Ingram admits he's pressing and is feeling a "little uptight" on his shot so far. Eager to show everything he's been working on and trying to live up to preseason expectations of being the team's leading scorer this season, Ingram has shot 8-for-30 and has scored 24 points in three preseason. games. Luke Walton said Ingram came into camp a little banged up and it has impacted his individual routine before and after practices. "I feel like offensively it is not going so well, at all," said Ingram, who has been hard on himself. "Kind of figuring out how to do different things on the basketball floor. I know I put in a lot of hard work in during the summer so it got to come sooner or later."


http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/09/lakers-brandon-ingram-trying-to-do-too-much-luke-walton-says/
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject:

He just needs to relax, honestly bring him off the bench next couple games isn't the worst idea....team wise if anything right now we're improving the starting unit if that happens.....when BI relaxes and gets back to what I think most people believe his game in he'll push right back into the starting line up
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

Just one of the reasons why it was grossly unfair to expect 20ppg this season.

I don't even like the idea that there are fans that expect him to be "Kobe-like" and just take over scoring like that.


Yeah, it's so ridiculous that some think a "Mamba Mentality" is good for a player without elite talent. There are few things more annoying in basketball than a player with an Alpha dog mentality without the Alpha dog skills.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.


Randle used to do this too, just bulldoze his way to the rim but now mixing it with mid-ranges and occasional post ups. BI needs to do same and both need to get their jumpers going
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

Ingram just has to work on his jump shot and defense.
And forget about being a go to guy until he is ready.

Those high expectations will just make him another
high first round flop.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.


Randle used to do this too, just bulldoze his way to the rim but now mixing it with mid-ranges and occasional post ups. BI needs to do same and both need to get their jumpers going


The difference is that Randle could still rely on his elite speed and formidable strength to get him to the rim. He just had trouble finishing but has improved in that area.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.


I think that basketball is much more about decision-making than it's usually portrayed as being. For example, on Tuesday he missed 2 pull-up jumpers in the 4th quarter where Gobert was hanging back in the paint. He missed the shot, but it was the correct shot, if that makes sense.

Then, with about a minute left, the same thing happens, and instead of taking the jumper again, he says "(bleep) it, I'm gonna drive anyway" and gets easily swatted by Gobert. It was the wrong shot, but I'd guess that missing the right one twice in a row discouraged him from making the correct read a third time.

SO MUCH hinges on his ability to shoot. There's a huge gap between his work ethic/physical tools and his skill level at this point, and bridging it takes TIME. The guys who blow up out of nowhere are already skilled, that's why all of the hype has been terribly unfair to him. He COULDN'T be the player that Magic wanted him to be. Not yet, anyway.
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