Josh Hart - 30th Pick
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Gimme_the_rock
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Underrated quality is he's a very good finisher. That's BIG.


I want to see it against NBA bigs, didn't look to have special finishing tools to me. DX skeptical https://youtu.be/n34b6m4i41E?t=3m0s


That airball floater

I think several of those instances is that he didn't seem to know when to go to the rack. He looks like preseason BI with his timing on quite a few of those. But he definitely has added some bounce since those videos. Hopefully the decision making, added burst and ball handling will follow.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject:

Really like kids defense and steady play
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Really like kids defense and steady play


Me too! We need guys who take defense personally and Hart takes D to heart.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Underrated quality is he's a very good finisher. That's BIG.


I want to see it against NBA bigs, didn't look to have special finishing tools to me. DX skeptical https://youtu.be/n34b6m4i41E?t=3m0s


That airball floater

I think several of those instances is that he didn't seem to know when to go to the rack. He looks like preseason BI with his timing on quite a few of those. But he definitely has added some bounce since those videos. Hopefully the decision making, added burst and ball handling will follow.


I don't expect the high finishing efficiency to continue, but I would expect him to have better ability to get to the FT line if he can't make the shot. Just, not worried.

In the most ideal of circumstances, I'd like him to be an LAL version of Gary Harris, by role and efficiency.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Underrated quality is he's a very good finisher. That's BIG.


I want to see it against NBA bigs, didn't look to have special finishing tools to me. DX skeptical https://youtu.be/n34b6m4i41E?t=3m0s


That airball floater

I think several of those instances is that he didn't seem to know when to go to the rack. He looks like preseason BI with his timing on quite a few of those. But he definitely has added some bounce since those videos. Hopefully the decision making, added burst and ball handling will follow.


I don't expect the high finishing efficiency to continue, but I would expect him to have better ability to get to the FT line if he can't make the shot. Just, not worried.

In the most ideal of circumstances, I'd like him to be an LAL version of Gary Harris, by role and efficiency.


That may be shooting a bit high. If he becomes KCP, it's already a big win for where he was drafted.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:

He has the tools to be George Hill, rich man's Derek Fisher type. I even see a little Kyle Lowry in him. Or I could go old school and say maybe some Vernon Maxwell, John Starks or Hersey Hawkins. There's a reason he was drafted where he was - has tools, but limited ceiling (starting caliber role player at the SG spot) and not a guarantee he gets there.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
He has the tools to be George Hill, rich man's Derek Fisher type. I even see a little Kyle Lowry in him. Or I could go old school and say maybe some Vernon Maxwell, John Starks or Hersey Hawkins. There's a reason he was drafted where he was - has tools, but limited ceiling (starting caliber role player at the SG spot) and not a guarantee he gets there.


The former, but definitely not the latter.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
He has the tools to be George Hill, rich man's Derek Fisher type. I even see a little Kyle Lowry in him. Or I could go old school and say maybe some Vernon Maxwell, John Starks or Hersey Hawkins. There's a reason he was drafted where he was - has tools, but limited ceiling (starting caliber role player at the SG spot) and not a guarantee he gets there.


The former, but definitely not the latter.


Yeah Kyle Lowry is a 3x all star and barely 6ft tall.

Who he reminds me of is Maurice Evans, would be awesome if he turns out better but thatís what I see him capping off as which is not bad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Underrated quality is he's a very good finisher. That's BIG.


I want to see it against NBA bigs, didn't look to have special finishing tools to me. DX skeptical https://youtu.be/n34b6m4i41E?t=3m0s


That airball floater

I think several of those instances is that he didn't seem to know when to go to the rack. He looks like preseason BI with his timing on quite a few of those. But he definitely has added some bounce since those videos. Hopefully the decision making, added burst and ball handling will follow.


I don't expect the high finishing efficiency to continue, but I would expect him to have better ability to get to the FT line if he can't make the shot. Just, not worried.

In the most ideal of circumstances, I'd like him to be an LAL version of Gary Harris, by role and efficiency.


That may be shooting a bit high. If he becomes KCP, it's already a big win for where he was drafted.

\
I don't see why it's such a high expectation. Harris was undersized, had laterals, but limited PG skills. Both guys had defensive reputations out of the NCAA.

Even Harris shot 34% behind the arc during his last year at MSU.

In fact, it took Harris 3 years to polish his shot. 20% rookie year. 34% 2nd year. 42% 3rd year. Hart was already doing subtle adjustments during the offseason to expand on his range.

I understand Hart left as a senior in Villanova, but neither guy is really seen as a high upside player. While Hart stayed in college longer, the results in terms of finishing, assists, and handling #1 option defensive pressure at the NCAA level were all there.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Underrated quality is he's a very good finisher. That's BIG.


I want to see it against NBA bigs, didn't look to have special finishing tools to me. DX skeptical https://youtu.be/n34b6m4i41E?t=3m0s


That airball floater

I think several of those instances is that he didn't seem to know when to go to the rack. He looks like preseason BI with his timing on quite a few of those. But he definitely has added some bounce since those videos. Hopefully the decision making, added burst and ball handling will follow.


I don't expect the high finishing efficiency to continue, but I would expect him to have better ability to get to the FT line if he can't make the shot. Just, not worried.

In the most ideal of circumstances, I'd like him to be an LAL version of Gary Harris, by role and efficiency.


I'd LOVE to see him become a Gary Harris type but realize that the most ideal of circumstances is generally more than we can hope for when it comes to rookies.

Did you notice how wide his stance is on mid range jumpers? He closes the gap when shooting beyond the arc but what's your guess on why he's settled in on that or why hasn't it been corrected?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject:

No idea. Shoulder width apart at Villanova. Good observation, though I'm concerned why the feet would be outside the shoulders like that.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
No idea. Shoulder width apart at Villanova. Good observation, though I'm concerned why the feet would be outside the shoulders like that.


Yeah, it's really pronounced too. Not a minor difference at all. I know it's a cool down session after practice but there's no lift and his shot is flatter. Wide stance when hanging a guitar solo? Yes. Midrange jumper? Not so much.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Underrated quality is he's a very good finisher. That's BIG.


I want to see it against NBA bigs, didn't look to have special finishing tools to me. DX skeptical https://youtu.be/n34b6m4i41E?t=3m0s


That airball floater

I think several of those instances is that he didn't seem to know when to go to the rack. He looks like preseason BI with his timing on quite a few of those. But he definitely has added some bounce since those videos. Hopefully the decision making, added burst and ball handling will follow.


I don't expect the high finishing efficiency to continue, but I would expect him to have better ability to get to the FT line if he can't make the shot. Just, not worried.

In the most ideal of circumstances, I'd like him to be an LAL version of Gary Harris, by role and efficiency.


That may be shooting a bit high. If he becomes KCP, it's already a big win for where he was drafted.

\
I don't see why it's such a high expectation. Harris was undersized, had laterals, but limited PG skills. Both guys had defensive reputations out of the NCAA.

Even Harris shot 34% behind the arc during his last year at MSU.

In fact, it took Harris 3 years to polish his shot. 20% rookie year. 34% 2nd year. 42% 3rd year. Hart was already doing subtle adjustments during the offseason to expand on his range.

I understand Hart left as a senior in Villanova, but neither guy is really seen as a high upside player. While Hart stayed in college longer, the results in terms of finishing, assists, and handling #1 option defensive pressure at the NCAA level were all there.


But I mean could you see us eventually signing Hart for an 84 million extension? That's a really big outlier result. As is being 15th in the NBA in scoring efficiency.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject:

Quote:

But I mean could you see us eventually signing Hart for an 84 million extension? That's a really big outlier result. As is being 15th in the NBA in scoring efficiency.


Most ideal of circumstances. But don't see why Hart can't be a 40% shooter and legit defender. A/TO ratio is already there.

As for the extension, the Lakers should be well over the cap by then (assuming FAs have been signed) with Hart's bird rights.

I just don't see how Hart stagnates into a 35% to 37% shooter and is just an average defender for his career. He could do that by next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

I just don't see how Hart stagnates into a 35% to 37% shooter and is just an average defender for his career. He could do that by next year.


I really liked the kid before the draft and am pleasantly surprised by his ability to resemble an NBA player so soon, albeit against 2nd stringers. But he seems to have been working on some of the question mark areas that led to him being such a late pick.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:

I just don't see how Hart stagnates into a 35% to 37% shooter and is just an average defender for his career. He could do that by next year.


I really liked the kid before the draft and am pleasantly surprised by his ability to already resemble an NBA player so soon, albeit against 2nd stringers. But he seems to have been working on some of the question mark areas that led to him being such a late pick.


I never saw him as more than a 3 and D guy with some passing ability/insanely low TO rate. That has insane value in today's NBA.

He just wasn't as much of a sexy pick because he's not a blow-by wing with crazy explosive vert and elite wing length. But, how do you turn a guy down that has proven himself in an elite NCAA program with both team performance and large individual improvement as well? He just has to do the simple things efficiently and is headed for a long career.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject:

Looks like a SG version Derek Fisher. Slow, strong and smart
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:

I just don't see how Hart stagnates into a 35% to 37% shooter and is just an average defender for his career. He could do that by next year.


I really liked the kid before the draft and am pleasantly surprised by his ability to already resemble an NBA player so soon, albeit against 2nd stringers. But he seems to have been working on some of the question mark areas that led to him being such a late pick.


I never saw him as more than a 3 and D guy with some passing ability/insanely low TO rate. That has insane value in today's NBA.

He just wasn't as much of a sexy pick because he's not a blow-by wing with crazy explosive vert and elite wing length. But, how do you turn a guy down that has proven himself in an elite NCAA program with both team performance and large individual improvement as well? He just has to do the simple things efficiently and is headed for a long career.


Great points. I guess, for me, I've just been surprised to find that he seems to have a nice touch after using his strength against single coverage in midrange, semi-post type plays. Just seems like a good counter for a 3 & D guy when chased off the corner 3, especially paired with the pump fake, midrange move he was working on in the video. Just being a threat to do those things would open up passing lanes for him eventually. And his D, although he's making the usual mistakes, has been solid.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
Looks like a SG version Derek Fisher. Slow, strong and smart


A 6'4" Fisher with (we hope and pray) less crap drive attempts and foot on the line 3's.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
He has the tools to be George Hill, rich man's Derek Fisher type. I even see a little Kyle Lowry in him. Or I could go old school and say maybe some Vernon Maxwell, John Starks or Hersey Hawkins. There's a reason he was drafted where he was - has tools, but limited ceiling (starting caliber role player at the SG spot) and not a guarantee he gets there.


The former, but definitely not the latter.


Yeah Kyle Lowry is a 3x all star and barely 6ft tall.

Who he reminds me of is Maurice Evans, would be awesome if he turns out better but thatís what I see him capping off as which is not bad


I'm referring to playing style. Hart is taller than Fisher too btw.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject:

In the last four drafts LA has had seven picks that, relative to draft position, include four steals (Clarkson, Nance, Zubac, Kuzma), one miss (Brown) and two TBDs (Hart, Bryant).

The talent in this past draft was unusually deep, especially with underclassmen. Perfect setup to score a late draft gem who is overlooked because they are an upperclassman. That's our scouting department's wheelhouse.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject:

Some nice plays down the stretch today. I really hope he becomes a consistent rotation player. I love the way he competes.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Some nice plays down the stretch today. I really hope he becomes a consistent rotation player. I love the way he competes.


10 mpg?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Hart looks like a guy who will have a 10 year career in the NBA. His upside is limited, but I think he will be a valuable contributor. My top end comp is Derek Fisher in overall impact. I'll take it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
He has the tools to be George Hill, rich man's Derek Fisher type. I even see a little Kyle Lowry in him. Or I could go old school and say maybe some Vernon Maxwell, John Starks or Hersey Hawkins. There's a reason he was drafted where he was - has tools, but limited ceiling (starting caliber role player at the SG spot) and not a guarantee he gets there.


The former, but definitely not the latter.


Yeah Kyle Lowry is a 3x all star and barely 6ft tall.

Who he reminds me of is Maurice Evans, would be awesome if he turns out better but thatís what I see him capping off as which is not bad


I'm referring to playing style. Hart is taller than Fisher too btw.

Good analysis Mr Sanity, I agree with the Fisher comp ( yeah we know he isn't 6'1")
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