OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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HumanVictoryCigar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject:

my bad on Pincus. I had like 30 seconds before I had to leave and saw it on Lakers Nation so I didn't associate it w/Pincus - but it was certainly interesting enough to post. The actual quote is interesting though, after Magic touting BI as a 20 ppg guy, and BI being designated a captain and so forth, now we're getting little slips here and there from inside the Lakers - possibly clearing the way to eventually trade BI? This front office isn't going to wait 2-3 years for BI to develop and it seems obvious he needs that time so... it'll be interesting what other things "leak" from "insiders" as we get towards the trade deadline.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.


I think that basketball is much more about decision-making than it's usually portrayed as being. For example, on Tuesday he missed 2 pull-up jumpers in the 4th quarter where Gobert was hanging back in the paint. He missed the shot, but it was the correct shot, if that makes sense.

Then, with about a minute left, the same thing happens, and instead of taking the jumper again, he says "(bleep) it, I'm gonna drive anyway" and gets easily swatted by Gobert. It was the wrong shot, but I'd guess that missing the right one twice in a row discouraged him from making the correct read a third time.

SO MUCH hinges on his ability to shoot. There's a huge gap between his work ethic/physical tools and his skill level at this point, and bridging it takes TIME. The guys who blow up out of nowhere are already skilled, that's why all of the hype has been terribly unfair to him. He COULDN'T be the player that Magic wanted him to be. Not yet, anyway.


I guess the question is whether the pressure will hasten his improvement or kill his confidence and cause him to make pressured (poor) decisions. In either case the next couple months are going to be rough. Just depends on the trajectory he takes. A lot has to do with his internal psychology but also his support system. Does he feel the love around him or not kind of thing. Luke and his staff (BK, Simon, Mermuys) seem like a good group to be that structure but there's also the specter of management and their involvement. Remains to be seen if Magic is a true mentor or looking out for #1.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.


I think that basketball is much more about decision-making than it's usually portrayed as being. For example, on Tuesday he missed 2 pull-up jumpers in the 4th quarter where Gobert was hanging back in the paint. He missed the shot, but it was the correct shot, if that makes sense.

Then, with about a minute left, the same thing happens, and instead of taking the jumper again, he says "(bleep) it, I'm gonna drive anyway" and gets easily swatted by Gobert. It was the wrong shot, but I'd guess that missing the right one twice in a row discouraged him from making the correct read a third time.

SO MUCH hinges on his ability to shoot. There's a huge gap between his work ethic/physical tools and his skill level at this point, and bridging it takes TIME. The guys who blow up out of nowhere are already skilled, that's why all of the hype has been terribly unfair to him. He COULDN'T be the player that Magic wanted him to be. Not yet, anyway.


Well said GT. So much of BI's offensive potential hinges on his ability to shoot well from the perimeter. I agree that he needs to continue to take the correct shots out there whether or not he makes them. I'd rather see him take good looks from the perimeter as opposed to forcing up bad shots in the paint.

From a skill standpoint, he's far behind Kuzma. I know others will mention that Kuz is 2 years older, but 2 years from now, will BI have Kuz's perimeter game, in-between game, ambidextrous finishing ability in the paint, spin moves going both directions, etc.? Those are just skills, but we can't forget Kuz's natural feel for the game as well which allows him to use those skills in the appropriate context. BI has a long way to go...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject:

I just don't understand why he drives to the basket like EVERY single time.... like what is up with that.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
What's puzzling about BI's game right now is the fact that he insists upon taking it the hole and forcing up low percentage shots. I understand his struggles from the perimeter, but it seems like BI has the mindset that he can get to the rim at will and finish, which is clearly not the case. He may eventually become a 20 ppg scorer, but it won't be because of his ability to get to the rim.


I think that basketball is much more about decision-making than it's usually portrayed as being. For example, on Tuesday he missed 2 pull-up jumpers in the 4th quarter where Gobert was hanging back in the paint. He missed the shot, but it was the correct shot, if that makes sense.

Then, with about a minute left, the same thing happens, and instead of taking the jumper again, he says "(bleep) it, I'm gonna drive anyway" and gets easily swatted by Gobert. It was the wrong shot, but I'd guess that missing the right one twice in a row discouraged him from making the correct read a third time.

SO MUCH hinges on his ability to shoot. There's a huge gap between his work ethic/physical tools and his skill level at this point, and bridging it takes TIME. The guys who blow up out of nowhere are already skilled, that's why all of the hype has been terribly unfair to him. He COULDN'T be the player that Magic wanted him to be. Not yet, anyway.


I guess the question is whether the pressure will hasten his improvement or kill his confidence and cause him to make pressured (poor) decisions. In either case the next couple months are going to be rough. Just depends on the trajectory he takes. A lot has to do with his internal psychology but also his support system. Does he feel the love around him or not kind of thing. Luke and his staff (BK, Simon, Mermuys) seem like a good group to be that structure but there's also the specter of management and their involvement. Remains to be seen if Magic is a true mentor or looking out for #1.


I hope he's strong enough to handle it but some of the things the team is doing to him... naming him captain and making him a vocal leader... it feels like these things were somewhat handed to him - regardless of how hard he worked in the offseason. All of the guys worked hard in the offseason but the team is kind of elevating him above other players saying he is "untouchable" and so forth, meanwhile Julius is seeing guys on other teams get contracts and he is being told our cap space is "sacred". Other guys produce more on the court but now it's, "you have to pretend to pay attention to BI when he speaks". Sometimes this kind of stuff leads to unspoken anger among different players. BI seems like a really good guy but if you're on the Lakers and you're not BI? How are you feeling right about now? Secure? Confident you'll even be a Laker next season - regardless of how well you play?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

bkim10 wrote:
I just don't understand why he drives to the basket like EVERY single time.... like what is up with that.


He has no confidence in his J, and I think he believes his bread and butter is getting to the rim.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject:

They probably dont have the guts to do it. But, I would start Kuz and put him on the bench. He was developing just fine toward the end of the season and he was figuring things out in terms of playing an all around complete game. His game is Andre Iguodala, not Kevin Durant. The sooner that he and the FO realize that, he will develop very nicely.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject:

I keep hearing reports that he is banged up. It may be the reason for his horrific play but if he's that banged up then sit out and rest.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




That certain young SG was FAAAAAARRR more skilled and athletically gifted as a senior in high school than BI is right now. Not a good comparison. You can have a "Mamba Mentality" all you want, but if you don't have the ungodly skill to back it up like the OG had, it's absolutely useless.

The point is, BI is willing to take that upon himself and be more aggressive. He had a shift in mentality at the end of last season which he said himself. No he's no kobe, but he has proven that he can learn from his mistakes so him not being afraid to be aggressive and making these mistakes earlier rather than later will only benefit him more in the long run.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




That certain young SG was FAAAAAARRR more skilled and athletically gifted as a senior in high school than BI is right now. Not a good comparison. You can have a "Mamba Mentality" all you want, but if you don't have the ungodly skill to back it up like the OG had, it's absolutely useless.

The point is, BI is willing to take that upon himself and be more aggressive. He had a shift in mentality at the end of last season which he said himself. No he's no kobe, but he has proven that he can learn from his mistakes so him not being afraid to be aggressive and making these mistakes earlier rather than later will only benefit him more in the long run.


I think some of us have hazy memories regarding Kobe's early years. His talent was undeniable, but he was frustrating to watch in those early years because he forced things too often. With regards to BI, his measurables are undeniable, but you can't say the same thing about his talent right now. BI needs a lot of skill development at this early stage of his career. Kobe at the same age was extremely advanced with regards to his skill level and really just needed to get stronger and improve his decision-making/shot selection.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
trablos wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
trablos wrote:
I'm glad Magic said what he said. I took it more of a compliment/motivation in regards to Brandon's potential than a literal 20 ppg quota with repercussions if he doesn't reach it. Look how it lit a fire under BI, would you rather have management say "yeah he's kinda good but I don't think he's ready for the big leagues yet".

I remember a certain young overly-ambitious SG who had the balls to airball 4 strait times in the biggest game of his life at that time. BI has shows that he can learn and improve, these struggles in some experimental preseason games will only make him that much better.




That certain young SG was FAAAAAARRR more skilled and athletically gifted as a senior in high school than BI is right now. Not a good comparison. You can have a "Mamba Mentality" all you want, but if you don't have the ungodly skill to back it up like the OG had, it's absolutely useless.

The point is, BI is willing to take that upon himself and be more aggressive. He had a shift in mentality at the end of last season which he said himself. No he's no kobe, but he has proven that he can learn from his mistakes so him not being afraid to be aggressive and making these mistakes earlier rather than later will only benefit him more in the long run.


I think some of us have hazy memories regarding Kobe's early years. His talent was undeniable, but he was frustrating to watch in those early years because he forced things too often. With regards to BI, his measurables are undeniable, but you can't say the same thing about his talent right now. BI needs a lot of skill development at this early stage of his career. Kobe at the same age was extremely advanced with regards to his skill level and really just needed to get stronger and improve his decision-making/shot selection.


Yeah, Kobe just needed to gain game experience (in addition to strength) but you could see the talent every time he stepped on the floor. Particularly by year two. He just needed to know when to pull one of the many tools he had out in order to compromise defenses. With Ingram, there are brief flashes of what could be where you can see how advantageous his length would be if he were stronger and more skilled. And I'd say the skill refinement is more important than the strength for him to take the next step from his rookie season. It wouldn't be that bad when he's getting stuffed on drives if he could consistently hit the open midrange J. Especially since that would help make his drives to the rim easier.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
2019 wrote:
watchME wrote:
Seeing these posts preaching that Ingram gets benched depress me He is our best prospect no doubt about it. He is the one guy who could possibly give you 25ppg 4 years down the road (He will be 23..a kid).His struggles are from trying to pull new moves with a new mechanics in-game. It will take him a few games to get confortable with himself. I wish he would focus more on defense (denying the ball on the best wing) why not develop him on that end? KCP wont be here. Also let him run point for the second unit. I expect 15 ppg for the season.


the future is:

PG.Ball
SG.PG13
SF.Ingram
PF.Kuzma
C.Cousins / Rsndle

i would try to get cousins, or
If rsndle can expand his range and learn to defend the paint i would try him at center. It is all about effort, look at holford for the celtics, or love for the cavs)
Also the whole team csn help out we have very active playerd. He is not a guy you want running an ISo or posting up. Play D, Rebound (specially offensive), Transition and open jumpers.

If he doesn’t then bye bye randle, Lopez stays.


But stop with the kuzma stuff, he id a PF and Ingram can play SG or SF.

Randle is not a PF on offense.. not in todays nba


I respect your optimism on Ingram's scoring but I never see more than 22ppg. It's only one basket away but crossing or meeting the threshold of 25 seems insane.

Ironically, Kuz may be the our current young guy who can score big one day.

Also, I hope PG actually considers leaving OKC at this point.

PG13 has never averaged more than 23ppg in any season as the primary option in Indy, and he's the upper bounds for Ingram as a scorer, imo. Ingram just hasn't shown the ability to put up enough good shots per game so far in his career to project him to be a 25ppg scorer unless he plays 40 mpg.

Kuzma is comparatively effortless, and buckets just seem to find him. Predicting Kuz to average 25ppg seems out there, but barring stratospheric improvement from Ingram, I don't see Brandon ever being as effortless as Kuzma is at getting up good shots.


Perfectly said, BVH.


That is all well and good, but can we wait until BI is 22 before we compare him to Kuz. How do we know that BI won't have the effortless stroke and more moves when he is 2 years older? Given his talent and work ethic, I think that BI will look a lot like Kuz when he is 22 in terms of scoring potential.

In watching that last game of his, he played great in the first 3 quarters and melted down in the 4'th.

I don't think he will do that again. The coaches have said it, he is pressing. He is trying too hard. It will come around for him and the first 3 quarters or the last game indicate to me that he is close to getting over trying too hard issue. Also, he is dealing with some minor injuries and has missed practice time.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Ingram is simply playing the wrong style of basketball for where his skill level is at currently. Luke needs to step up and make it clear to Ingram that he needs to dial back the isolations and use more of his playmaking and court vision to make the smart basketball decisions. His mid range game was money at the end of last season, I'd like to see him playing offball more like Derozan to set up him mid range and make quicker decisions with the ball rather than going off the dribble.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
If you're hating on Ingram at this point in his career, you're foolish.


Is it hating if I call him BrickGram cos he’s been throwing up a lot of bricks lately hehe

https://i2.wp.com/i.giphy.com/48FhEMYGWji8.gif?resize=500,323


Well since he's having a hard time getting shots to go in, how about Outgram?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:

That is all well and good, but can we wait until BI is 22 before we compare him to Kuz. How do we know that BI won't have the effortless stroke and more moves when he is 2 years older? Given his talent and work ethic, I think that BI will look a lot like Kuz when he is 22 in terms of scoring potential.

In watching that last game of his, he played great in the first 3 quarters and melted down in the 4'th.

I don't think he will do that again. The coaches have said it, he is pressing. He is trying too hard. It will come around for him and the first 3 quarters or the last game indicate to me that he is close to getting over trying too hard issue. Also, he is dealing with some minor injuries and has missed practice time.


Will 2 years be enough for BI to close the skill gap between he and Kuz? I think you underestimate just how underdeveloped BI's skills are and just how far along Kuz is in his skill development. Also, if Kuz is who we want BI to eventually be 2 years from now, then it doesn't make sense to start BI right now. Even if BI gets to where Kuz is now, I expect Kuz to continue to improve as well.

At this point, Kuz looks like a viable #3 option with the potential to be a #2 eventually. It might be a bit hyperbolic to say this, but he's looking like a taller, more athletic, more skilled version of Klay with streaky shooting (vs pure shooting) and a better motor.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:

That is all well and good, but can we wait until BI is 22 before we compare him to Kuz. How do we know that BI won't have the effortless stroke and more moves when he is 2 years older? Given his talent and work ethic, I think that BI will look a lot like Kuz when he is 22 in terms of scoring potential.

In watching that last game of his, he played great in the first 3 quarters and melted down in the 4'th.

I don't think he will do that again. The coaches have said it, he is pressing. He is trying too hard. It will come around for him and the first 3 quarters or the last game indicate to me that he is close to getting over trying too hard issue. Also, he is dealing with some minor injuries and has missed practice time.


Will 2 years be enough for BI to close the skill gap between he and Kuz? I think you underestimate just how underdeveloped BI's skills are and just how far along Kuz is in his skill development. Also, if Kuz is who we want BI to eventually be 2 years from now, then it doesn't make sense to start BI right now. Even if BI gets to where Kuz is now, I expect Kuz to continue to improve as well.

At this point, Kuz looks like a viable #3 option with the potential to be a #2 eventually. It might be a bit hyperbolic to say this, but he's looking like a taller, more athletic, more skilled version of Klay with streaky shooting (vs pure shooting) and a better motor.


Agreed
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
I keep hearing reports that he is banged up. It may be the reason for his horrific play but if he's that banged up then sit out and rest.


That was Luke throwing him a lifeline.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
32 wrote:
I keep hearing reports that he is banged up. It may be the reason for his horrific play but if he's that banged up then sit out and rest.


That was Luke throwing him a lifeline.


yes
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject:

Posted in wrong thread...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:

His shot is banged up
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject:

well he was wearing a knee sleeve the practice after Luke said that.. Lonzo called his a swag pad, but Ingram doesn't do swag pads.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
If you're hating on Ingram at this point in his career, you're foolish.


Is it hating if I call him BrickGram cos he’s been throwing up a lot of bricks lately hehe

https://i2.wp.com/i.giphy.com/48FhEMYGWji8.gif?resize=500,323


Well since he's having a hard time getting shots to go in, how about Outgram?


Well his shot definitely hasn’t been MoneyGram
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:

That is all well and good, but can we wait until BI is 22 before we compare him to Kuz. How do we know that BI won't have the effortless stroke and more moves when he is 2 years older? Given his talent and work ethic, I think that BI will look a lot like Kuz when he is 22 in terms of scoring potential.

In watching that last game of his, he played great in the first 3 quarters and melted down in the 4'th.

I don't think he will do that again. The coaches have said it, he is pressing. He is trying too hard. It will come around for him and the first 3 quarters or the last game indicate to me that he is close to getting over trying too hard issue. Also, he is dealing with some minor injuries and has missed practice time.


Will 2 years be enough for BI to close the skill gap between he and Kuz? I think you underestimate just how underdeveloped BI's skills are and just how far along Kuz is in his skill development. Also, if Kuz is who we want BI to eventually be 2 years from now, then it doesn't make sense to start BI right now. Even if BI gets to where Kuz is now, I expect Kuz to continue to improve as well.

At this point, Kuz looks like a viable #3 option with the potential to be a #2 eventually. It might be a bit hyperbolic to say this, but he's looking like a taller, more athletic, more skilled version of Klay with streaky shooting (vs pure shooting) and a better motor.


So...not Klay

Good post, but I'm on Kuzma being the more athletic Dario Saric.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:
manlisten wrote:
Andre2K wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
If you're hating on Ingram at this point in his career, you're foolish.


Is it hating if I call him BrickGram cos he’s been throwing up a lot of bricks lately hehe

https://i2.wp.com/i.giphy.com/48FhEMYGWji8.gif?resize=500,323


Well since he's having a hard time getting shots to go in, how about Outgram?


Well his shot definitely hasn’t been MoneyGram

Holy shīt! Once Ingram gets good that's his nickname! It's decided.

MoneyGram!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:

That is all well and good, but can we wait until BI is 22 before we compare him to Kuz. How do we know that BI won't have the effortless stroke and more moves when he is 2 years older? Given his talent and work ethic, I think that BI will look a lot like Kuz when he is 22 in terms of scoring potential.

In watching that last game of his, he played great in the first 3 quarters and melted down in the 4'th.

I don't think he will do that again. The coaches have said it, he is pressing. He is trying too hard. It will come around for him and the first 3 quarters or the last game indicate to me that he is close to getting over trying too hard issue. Also, he is dealing with some minor injuries and has missed practice time.


Will 2 years be enough for BI to close the skill gap between he and Kuz? I think you underestimate just how underdeveloped BI's skills are and just how far along Kuz is in his skill development. Also, if Kuz is who we want BI to eventually be 2 years from now, then it doesn't make sense to start BI right now. Even if BI gets to where Kuz is now, I expect Kuz to continue to improve as well.

At this point, Kuz looks like a viable #3 option with the potential to be a #2 eventually. It might be a bit hyperbolic to say this, but he's looking like a taller, more athletic, more skilled version of Klay with streaky shooting (vs pure shooting) and a better motor.


So...not Klay

Good post, but I'm on Kuzma being the more athletic Dario Saric.


LOL. I guess I just see a bit of Klay in Kuz with his quick release, shot form and ability to shoot the J in a variety of ways. However, I agree that if Kuz brings more to the table than Klay does, then he really isn't very much like Klay after all.
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