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epak
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.


Yup. Then we could pay him $22 mil a year.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

real nice game last night...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.


Yup. Then we could pay him $22 mil a year.




I'm pretty much done with iso ball, even when it occasionally nets a good showing. To be fair, he's done a better job of not always forcing the issue but when he does that thing where he's holding onto the ball while obviously thinking about going iso freaking kills me. Him and Jules both. I'm so ultra sensitive too it now that I feel like I'm picking on him whenever I watch him. But, hopefully he does that stuff less and less.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
epak wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.


Yup. Then we could pay him $22 mil a year.




I'm pretty much done with iso ball, even when it occasionally nets a good showing. To be fair, he's done a better job of not always forcing the issue but when he does that thing where he's holding onto the ball while obviously thinking about going iso freaking kills me. Him and Jules both. I'm so ultra sensitive too it now that I feel like I'm picking on him whenever I watch him. But, hopefully he does that stuff less and less.


JC and Randle both have tunnel vision. You can tell they’re playing more for themselves than the team.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
epak wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.


Yup. Then we could pay him $22 mil a year.




I'm pretty much done with iso ball, even when it occasionally nets a good showing. To be fair, he's done a better job of not always forcing the issue but when he does that thing where he's holding onto the ball while obviously thinking about going iso freaking kills me. Him and Jules both. I'm so ultra sensitive too it now that I feel like I'm picking on him whenever I watch him. But, hopefully he does that stuff less and less.


JC and Randle both have tunnel vision. You can tell they’re playing more for themselves than the team.


I hear you but, at the very least, they're not as blatant nor insistent with it as they once were. Kind of feel like I'm over scrutinizing it at times, to the point where it kills my joy watching this team. I just want to see a more team-oriented brand of play. At least with Jules, he's been showing some good focus on D.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
epak wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.


Yup. Then we could pay him $22 mil a year.




I'm pretty much done with iso ball, even when it occasionally nets a good showing. To be fair, he's done a better job of not always forcing the issue but when he does that thing where he's holding onto the ball while obviously thinking about going iso freaking kills me. Him and Jules both. I'm so ultra sensitive too it now that I feel like I'm picking on him whenever I watch him. But, hopefully he does that stuff less and less.


JC and Randle both have tunnel vision. You can tell they’re playing more for themselves than the team.


Some of it is the type of player they are and have been from the day they were drafted. NBA is full of ISO players. Depends on your perspective and their success if it is working. Lakers have had a few in recent years "teaching" these young players their craft. What do you think these young players saw in KFT Kobe or Williams? ISO chuckers getting the glory. Changing that culture and mentality will take some time.

I also wonder how much of it has to do with the continued commentary that they will be gone by the media, fans and even the front office.

I imagine it is hard to buy-in and fully commit to being a team player when you are being told you are not part of the team on a daily basis.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject:

Here we go on the SG game by game comparison.

KCP - Is it just me or is this guy a souped up version of Jody Meeks. He just doesn't stand out or make any aggressive plays. He disappears for long stretches. He will make one or two good plays per game and plays average defense. I am hoping he is in cruise control during pre-season and will unleash his nastiness when regular season starts.

Luke chose to go with Hart at the end of the game instead of KCP for the last 2 games. Not sure if that means anything.

JC - Good game by JC. Are my eyes deceiving me or is he actually playing good man defense. He used to get burned all the time but it looks like he is working around the screens and putting a hand out when his man shoots.

Looks like he is also trying to pass the ball. Key word is trying because he had two turnovers trying to get the ball to Kuz and JR. At least his turnovers are for passes and not just loosing the ball by himself. He did have 2 steals to make up for the TOs.

He seems to be getting to the FT line a lot more this year. I think he is improving his game. One thing you can't fault him on is that he is always aggressive and tries hard. Sometimes its awful but sometimes it works. When its awful you cringe and say that was terrible play. When it works you say wow, that was real athletic...good job. But for sure, he always tries to make an impact on the game.

I notice a lot of posters hate his game. That's probably because his game is not your prototypical SG game. He plays fast with wreck-less abandon. He is like that guy you play pick-up games with at the park with endless energy and is all over the court.

Hart: This is his best game so far. Very composed and played good defense. He needs to drive to the basket more. He doesn't shoot much but when he does he can make the shot. I see him making strides for playing time. He will do fine later on the season.

Vander Blue - Didn't play.

So there it is. I want to state that I do not have a favorite in this SG comparison game. I am hoping KCP blows us away during the regular season. But for now, JC is actually the better SG.

Ongoing Score:
JC 4
KCP 1
VBlue 0
Hart 0
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject:

Agreed completely with that analysis.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
Here we go on the SG game by game comparison.

KCP - Is it just me or is this guy a souped up version of Jody Meeks. He just doesn't stand out or make any aggressive plays. He disappears for long stretches. He will make one or two good plays per game and plays average defense. I am hoping he is in cruise control during pre-season and will unleash his nastiness when regular season starts.

Luke chose to go with Hart at the end of the game instead of KCP for the last 2 games. Not sure if that means anything.

JC - Good game by JC. Are my eyes deceiving me or is he actually playing good man defense. He used to get burned all the time but it looks like he is working around the screens and putting a hand out when his man shoots.

Looks like he is also trying to pass the ball. Key word is trying because he had two turnovers trying to get the ball to Kuz and JR. At least his turnovers are for passes and not just loosing the ball by himself. He did have 2 steals to make up for the TOs.

He seems to be getting to the FT line a lot more this year. I think he is improving his game. One thing you can't fault him on is that he is always aggressive and tries hard. Sometimes its awful but sometimes it works. When its awful you cringe and say that was terrible play. When it works you say wow, that was real athletic...good job. But for sure, he always tries to make an impact on the game.

I notice a lot of posters hate his game. That's probably because his game is not your prototypical SG game. He plays fast with wreck-less abandon. He is like that guy you play pick-up games with at the park with endless energy and is all over the court.

Hart: This is his best game so far. Very composed and played good defense. He needs to drive to the basket more. He doesn't shoot much but when he does he can make the shot. I see him making strides for playing time. He will do fine later on the season.

Vander Blue - Didn't play.

So there it is. I want to state that I do not have a favorite in this SG comparison game. I am hoping KCP blows us away during the regular season. But for now, JC is actually the better SG.

Ongoing Score:
JC 4
KCP 1
VBlue 0
Hart 0


I like your assessment. Yes, I'm beginning to understand why the Pistons were willing to let KCP go. He doesn't really stand out on the offensive end, but the defense is great when he's paired with a couple of competent defenders in Ingram and Nance. On to the topic, yes JC had a good game. I do get sensitive as do others who have had to endure watching losing ISO plays for the last several years.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject:

bandiger wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Here we go on the SG game by game comparison.

KCP - Is it just me or is this guy a souped up version of Jody Meeks. He just doesn't stand out or make any aggressive plays. He disappears for long stretches. He will make one or two good plays per game and plays average defense. I am hoping he is in cruise control during pre-season and will unleash his nastiness when regular season starts.

Luke chose to go with Hart at the end of the game instead of KCP for the last 2 games. Not sure if that means anything.

JC - Good game by JC. Are my eyes deceiving me or is he actually playing good man defense. He used to get burned all the time but it looks like he is working around the screens and putting a hand out when his man shoots.

Looks like he is also trying to pass the ball. Key word is trying because he had two turnovers trying to get the ball to Kuz and JR. At least his turnovers are for passes and not just loosing the ball by himself. He did have 2 steals to make up for the TOs.

He seems to be getting to the FT line a lot more this year. I think he is improving his game. One thing you can't fault him on is that he is always aggressive and tries hard. Sometimes its awful but sometimes it works. When its awful you cringe and say that was terrible play. When it works you say wow, that was real athletic...good job. But for sure, he always tries to make an impact on the game.

I notice a lot of posters hate his game. That's probably because his game is not your prototypical SG game. He plays fast with wreck-less abandon. He is like that guy you play pick-up games with at the park with endless energy and is all over the court.

Hart: This is his best game so far. Very composed and played good defense. He needs to drive to the basket more. He doesn't shoot much but when he does he can make the shot. I see him making strides for playing time. He will do fine later on the season.

Vander Blue - Didn't play.

So there it is. I want to state that I do not have a favorite in this SG comparison game. I am hoping KCP blows us away during the regular season. But for now, JC is actually the better SG.

Ongoing Score:
JC 4
KCP 1
VBlue 0
Hart 0


I like your assessment. Yes, I'm beginning to understand why the Pistons were willing to let KCP go. He doesn't really stand out on the offensive end, but the defense is great when he's paired with a couple of competent defenders in Ingram and Nance. On to the topic, yes JC had a good game. I do get sensitive as do others who have had to endure watching losing ISO plays for the last several years.


You and me both. When JC goes ISO or when he is awful (going too fast) he fails spectacularly. But he does make good plays sometimes. Got to take the good with the bad, I guess.

Our other option is to go vanilla with KCP. Or wait until Hart develops and gets more seasoned. We are pretty thin on the SG position.

I will keep doing this SG comparison throughout the year.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject:

I think JC has outplayed KCP, but there is something about Hart which makes me believe he may be the best of all of them. He has some grit and dog in him I don't see from the other two.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
epak wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.


Yup. Then we could pay him $22 mil a year.




I'm pretty much done with iso ball, even when it occasionally nets a good showing. To be fair, he's done a better job of not always forcing the issue but when he does that thing where he's holding onto the ball while obviously thinking about going iso freaking kills me. Him and Jules both. I'm so ultra sensitive too it now that I feel like I'm picking on him whenever I watch him. But, hopefully he does that stuff less and less.


I can relate. I'm trying to guard against the tendency to watch him too closely. The irony of that is I'm finding myself isolating my focus on him because of his iso tendencies that I despise.

In a nutshell he lacks a high bbiq, and because of that I don't trust him to make good decisions in critical times of the game.
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject:

How the heck did you iso haters handle the Kobe years?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
How the heck did you iso haters handle the Kobe years?


5 championships probably helped?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
epak wrote:
How the heck did you iso haters handle the Kobe years?


5 championships probably helped?


Being one of the most skilled and entertaining players of all time also helped.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
How the heck did you iso haters handle the Kobe years?

he was actually good
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
JC and Randle both have tunnel vision. You can tell they’re playing more for themselves than the team.


I can agree to an extent on Clarkson last season. He had tunnel vision badly for most of the season, though it should be noted that he improved on that late last season and so far in the preseason. I think he's had a hard time figuring out his role, but I'd like to see more of the rookie Clarkson than the year 3 Clarkson. I can't at all agree on Randle. You do realize Randle was second on the team in assists last season and 5th in shot attempts, right? The only Laker who averaged more assists last year was Russell and was one of the top passing big men in the league.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject:

His last game was his best came by far; that JC brings value to this team. And maybe even can fetch us a draft pick if/when we shop him.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
JC and Randle both have tunnel vision. You can tell they’re playing more for themselves than the team.


I can agree to an extent on Clarkson last season. He had tunnel vision badly for most of the season, though it should be noted that he improved on that late last season and so far in the preseason. I think he's had a hard time figuring out his role, but I'd like to see more of the rookie Clarkson than the year 3 Clarkson. I can't at all agree on Randle. You do realize Randle was second on the team in assists last season and 5th in shot attempts, right? The only Laker who averaged more assists last year was Russell and was one of the top passing big men in the league.


Because some people don’t adjust their opinion from a first impression lol.

Plus I think some people fail to realize isolations are not evil. They’re a valuable tool in the game of basketball when used correctly (to exploit a mismatch), and believe or not the coach or PG playing is actually calling those ISO plays for JC, Randle, Ingram etc.

It’s a shock to some I know, maybe they want to take a seat while reading this.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject:

The problem with Clarkson is for every positive thing he does he gives it right back by doing some stupid or careless. He's mistake prone and NEVER LEARNS. By year four your shouldn't be repeating your mistakes over and over again especially with an additional 4 years of college.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject:

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=AST_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Pre%20Season&TeamID=1610612747&CF=MIN*G*15:PLAYER_NAME*E*

In lakers preseason for any player over 15 mins a game he has the highest offensive rating. He also has second highest Pace, TS%, EFG%, PIE. He also is only one of 3 players with a positive net rating along with Kuzma and Caruso. has 4th highest Ast%. His AST/TO ratio leaves a lot to be desired though. Yes he has had some of the worst sequences in the preseason but overall he has been one of the best players for us in the preseason.

Also these stats highlight how good Kuzma has been. He is killing it in almost all the scoring related categories.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
The problem with Clarkson is for every positive thing he does he gives it right back by doing some stupid or careless. He's mistake prone and NEVER LEARNS. By year four your shouldn't be repeating your mistakes over and over again especially with an additional 4 years of college.


Clarkson played 3 years of college....2 years @ Tulsa & 1 year @ Mizzou
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
The problem with Clarkson is for every positive thing he does he gives it right back by doing some stupid or careless. He's mistake prone and NEVER LEARNS. By year four your shouldn't be repeating your mistakes over and over again especially with an additional 4 years of college.


I guess the questions we have to ask ourselves are:

1. Does the positives outweigh the negatives?

2. Are his net contributions to the team better than KCP's or Hart's? KCP is vanilla and Hart is too inexperienced.

On the SG comparison posts, I originally thought KCP was going to shine and it was going to ultimately support the negative view of JC. But to my surprise, it was the opposite and it actually flip-flopped by opinion on JC.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject:

WVLAKERFAN1 wrote:
https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=AST_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Pre%20Season&TeamID=1610612747&CF=MIN*G*15:PLAYER_NAME*E*

In lakers preseason for any player over 15 mins a game he has the highest offensive rating. He also has second highest Pace, TS%, EFG%, PIE. He also is only one of 3 players with a positive net rating along with Kuzma and Caruso. has 4th highest Ast%. His AST/TO ratio leaves a lot to be desired though. Yes he has had some of the worst sequences in the preseason but overall he has been one of the best players for us in the preseason.

Also these stats highlight how good Kuzma has been. He is killing it in almost all the scoring related categories.



But but but... He has tunnel vision. :p
Thanks for the stats
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I think JC has outplayed KCP, but there is something about Hart which makes me believe he may be the best of all of them. He has some grit and dog in him I don't see from the other two.


JC has definitely outplayed KCP who's been forcing up a lot of questionable shots. And even though Hart is still fresh I like that he doesn't force things and always looks in control out there.
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