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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22839 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Simmons
Ball
Fox
Collins
Tatum
Markkanen
DSJ
Kuzma
Jackson |
you cannot be serious...you have the guy that besides one outlier game against PHX is averaging 5 Points a game, and shooting 22% from 3 at #2....that is ridiculous!
De'Aaron Fox is leading his team in scoring and is averaging 15/5/5 with a PER of 19.4....in 27 MPG.
Markkanen is averaging 16 & 9 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.
Tatum is averaging 15 / 8 / 2 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.
John Collins is averaging 12 & 8 in 19 MPG. Has a PER of 25.46.
DSJ is averaging 15 PPG, 3 RPG, 5 APG in 29 minutes while shooting 49% from the field.
No way you put Ball ahead of any of those guys as of today. |
I'll deal with this tomorrow at a reasonable hour, but your Ball hate is a bad look. |
I just gave you sufficient detailed evidence....beyond that, you know how high I am on Jackson....but I recognize Ball has outperformed him as of today. Do I now hate Jackson too? It is not a prediction....just an honest view a couple weeks into the season. |
Is your criteria just scoring? Of all the important stat categories, Ball is the only rookie who's a top 5 in a category, the assists category. You're not talking about Ball's dimes and boards, so you're skewing it a bit. I don't think the public/media would have 5 guys ahead of him. Winning will also be factored in ultimately. I mean Dallas is 1-5, so that will hurt DSJ.
I think Ball's dimes and boards are going nowhere. Meaning it's going to be that good for the rest of the year. The other rookies have no shot at catching him there. But his shooting has no where to go but up. In the end, I think it will come down to Simmons and Ball. Hopefully because that would mean it was a good year for us. |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Discounting games as an outlier, especially this early is lame IMO. If you discount DSJ's second game his shooting numbers drop significantly.
Right now I would say the award goes to Simmons. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Practice wrote: | Discounting games as an outlier, especially this early is lame IMO. If you discount DSJ's second game his shooting numbers drop significantly.
Right now I would say the award goes to Simmons. |
I did not discount it in my list...I simply pointed it out. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Simmons
Ball
Fox
Collins
Tatum
Markkanen
DSJ
Kuzma
Jackson |
you cannot be serious...you have the guy that besides one outlier game against PHX is averaging 5 Points a game, and shooting 22% from 3 at #2....that is ridiculous!
De'Aaron Fox is leading his team in scoring and is averaging 15/5/5 with a PER of 19.4....in 27 MPG.
Markkanen is averaging 16 & 9 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.
Tatum is averaging 15 / 8 / 2 while shooting 46% from 3 and a 60% true shooting %.
John Collins is averaging 12 & 8 in 19 MPG. Has a PER of 25.46.
DSJ is averaging 15 PPG, 3 RPG, 5 APG in 29 minutes while shooting 49% from the field.
No way you put Ball ahead of any of those guys as of today. |
I'll deal with this tomorrow at a reasonable hour, but your Ball hate is a bad look. |
I just gave you sufficient detailed evidence....beyond that, you know how high I am on Jackson....but I recognize Ball has outperformed him as of today. Do I now hate Jackson too? It is not a prediction....just an honest view a couple weeks into the season. |
Is your criteria just scoring? Of all the important stat categories, Ball is the only rookie who's a top 5 in a category, the assists category. You're not talking about Ball's dimes and boards, so you're skewing it a bit. I don't think the public/media would have 5 guys ahead of him. Winning will also be factored in ultimately. I mean Dallas is 1-5, so that will hurt DSJ.
I think Ball's dimes and boards are going nowhere. Meaning it's going to be that good for the rest of the year. The other rookies have no shot at catching him there. But his shooting has no where to go but up. In the end, I think it will come down to Simmons and Ball. Hopefully because that would mean it was a good year for us. |
Simply do not know how you could read my explanation for each player, then respond is it only about scoring. The list has nothing to do with who will ultimately win....it is not a prediction. It is simply a list of who has played the best 2 weeks into a long season. So which of the 5 guys ahead of him do you feel has not played better than Ball during the past 2 weeks? |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Gotta agree with adkindo here. Ball hasn't played well enough relative to the other rookies YET, to be considered up there.
However you feel about scoring, it is possibly THE top factor in ROY voting. On top of that, his scoring is a liability right now so far. I think thats the difference.
Based on first 4 or 5 games, I'd put Fox, DSJ, Tatum, and Markkanen slightly ahead of Ball.
But if Ball consistently puts up around his 11/9/9 average, then, you gotta say he's up there. Honestly, its gonna be hard for a 19 yr old to get ROY when you have polished 4+ year guys competing for it too.
I'd also put Mike James on the list somewhere. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:54 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Gotta agree with adkindo here. Ball hasn't played well enough relative to the other rookies YET, to be considered up there.
However you feel about scoring, it is possibly THE top factor in ROY voting. On top of that, his scoring is a liability right now so far. I think thats the difference.
Based on first 4 or 5 games, I'd put Fox, DSJ, Tatum, and Markkanen slightly ahead of Ball.
But if Ball consistently puts up around his 11/9/9 average, then, you gotta say he's up there. Honestly, its gonna be hard for a 19 yr old to get ROY when you have polished 4+ year guys competing for it too.
I'd also put Mike James on the list somewhere. |
I fully expect Ball to be in top 3 by seasons end....I would probably bet money on it. |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Simmons by a mile... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17876
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I gotta say, Tatum's stats look pretty good. Haven't watched him play but still, for a rookie, not bad.
Jaylen Brown OTOH.... |
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Lonzo'sBalls Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Sep 2017 Posts: 423
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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unleasHell wrote: | Simmons by a mile... |
This.
And the gap will only grow. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo'sBalls wrote: | unleasHell wrote: | Simmons by a mile... |
This.
And the gap will only grow. |
Grew a little more tonight. Guy is absurd. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Malik Monk finally showed up. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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DSJ vs. Berverly tonight.... |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Simmons
Markkanen
Tatum
Fox
Kooz _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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ryan_c Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 1371
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Simmons. |
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Jhin0821 Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Feb 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, no way Ball is even in the discussion. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30678
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Simmons by a country mile.
If this fool learns to shoot, GG to the league. _________________ KOBE |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:11 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | DSJ vs. Berverly tonight.... |
DSJ had a little more success...ton of TO's, but it was not his very first game in the NBA on national television....so not much to take from it. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | Simmons by a country mile.
If this fool learns to shoot, GG to the league. |
Was just telling a sixers friend of mine this. If Simmons learns to shoot he could end up being Lebron-esque.
Simmons has about 7 years of inproving before he hits his prime. Scary stuff. He's a year younger than Josh Hart. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25075
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | adkindo wrote: | DSJ vs. Berverly tonight.... |
DSJ had a little more success...ton of TO's, but it was not his very first game in the NBA on national television....so not much to take from it. |
That hammer dunk in the 1st Q was nice |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Simmons is a beast. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rookies by BPM (min. 20mpg)
1) Ben Simmons........+4.4
2) Jayson Tatum........+2.4
3) Kyle Kuzma...........+1.9
4) Lonzo Ball..............-0.3
5) Dillon Brooks..........-1.0
6) Mike James............-1.0
7) Lauri Markaanen.....-1.6
8) Dwayne Bacon........-2.9
9) De'Aaron Fox..........-3.2
10) Malik Monk...........-3.6
11) Donovan Mitchell...-4.3
12) Josh Jackson.........-5.0
13) Dennis Smith, Jr....-6.0 |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Rookies by BPM (min. 20mpg)
1) Ben Simmons........+4.4
2) Jayson Tatum........+2.4
3) Kyle Kuzma...........+1.9
4) Lonzo Ball..............-0.3
5) Dillon Brooks..........-1.0
6) Mike James............-1.0
7) Lauri Markaanen.....-1.6
8) Dwayne Bacon........-2.9
9) De'Aaron Fox..........-3.2
10) Malik Monk...........-3.6
11) Donovan Mitchell...-4.3
12) Josh Jackson.........-5.0
13) Dennis Smith, Jr....-6.0 |
Lonzo really benefits from the synergy between assists and rebounds as part of the DBPM calculation that tox identified. It's a flaw and is inflating his value above how he's really performed so far. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Rookies by BPM (min. 20mpg)
1) Ben Simmons........+4.4
2) Jayson Tatum........+2.4
3) Kyle Kuzma...........+1.9
4) Lonzo Ball..............-0.3
5) Dillon Brooks..........-1.0
6) Mike James............-1.0
7) Lauri Markaanen.....-1.6
8) Dwayne Bacon........-2.9
9) De'Aaron Fox..........-3.2
10) Malik Monk...........-3.6
11) Donovan Mitchell...-4.3
12) Josh Jackson.........-5.0
13) Dennis Smith, Jr....-6.0 |
Dwayne Bacon? |
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Simmons filling it up. 14/11/11 in a win over Pacers. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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