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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the key is to not play JC in a "set" offense. He doesn't seem to have the vision/discipline for that. He likes the high P&R sets which when it works, is dynamic. The key IMO is to yank him out of the game when he goes ISO heavy and tunnel visioned.


He's a classic 6th man: Can really carry your team when a scoring punch is needed, but he also needs to be on a short leash.


My analogy for JC is that he is like salt. On a bland night, sprinkle a bit and the flavor pops; put too much salt and the dish is ruined. Need to find that right balance. IMO, playing him in fewer minutes seems to keep him more focused and sharp on the court.


Just like salt, having too much Clarkson is bad for my health too
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject:

JC is like lou Dubs, can score but can not play D. He also just gets moving to fast and has weird TO. He is a Great Six man but shouldn't start. Need to move him. Maybe Randle and Him for a jump shooter and big that can shoot in the post.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

As an offensive PG, Clarkson provides a great example for Ball to aspire towards.

It’s a slippery slope though.

How much value does he hold? How easy will he be to trade when the situation calls to clear his salary?

If he has lots of value across the league, and I’m not particularly convinced that he does, but, if he does, and he can be easily traded, MOST DEFINITELY hold onto to him until the summer bonanza, but if my concerns are valid and his value is low across the league and it will not be easy to trade him this summer, then you MOST DEFINITELY have to sell high immeadiately and thank the basketball gods that he’s playing the best basketball of his career at the most opportune time for the franchise.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.


Not a bad plan but for right now KCP getting 33mins compared to JC's 21mins doesnt make a lot of sense.

KCP: 11pts 40% 31% 5rebs 2.5asts

Clarkson: 15.5pts 51% 40% 2.4rebs 2.7asts
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the key is to not play JC in a "set" offense. He doesn't seem to have the vision/discipline for that. He likes the high P&R sets which when it works, is dynamic. The key IMO is to yank him out of the game when he goes ISO heavy and tunnel visioned.


He's a classic 6th man: Can really carry your team when a scoring punch is needed, but he also needs to be on a short leash.


My analogy for JC is that he is like salt. On a bland night, sprinkle a bit and the flavor pops; put too much salt and the dish is ruined. Need to find that right balance. IMO, playing him in fewer minutes seems to keep him more focused and sharp on the court.

Couldn’t agree more. Most people need lessons in human nature to truly understand this though. It happens to guys like Clarkson (and Randle) who are ultra-aggressive offensive guys. Guys like that, in certain circumstances, are just much better coming off the bench and playing less than half the game. You saw this occurrence much more in the eighties. A guy like James Edwards would come off that Pistons bench for ten or fifteen minutes only but would be the best offensive guy on the team for each of those minutes.

Just because a guys per36 numbers are through the roof doesn’t mean his numbers should approach 36 minutes.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.


Not a bad plan but for right now KCP getting 33mins compared to JC's 21mins doesnt make a lot of sense.

KCP: 11pts 40% 31% 5rebs 2.5asts

Clarkson: 15.5pts 51% 40% 2.4rebs 2.7asts

It may not be quantifiable, but if you take Pope off this team, I’m not sure this team is half as good defensively.

Sometimes players provide intangibles — aspects that numbers can’t show. I think Pope’s bulldog mentality has had a tremendous effect on this team, but, of course, I can’t begin to proof it.

I mean, how do you not play defense when he’s on your team? It’d be difficult to watch him as your teammate and not, at the very least, try a little bit harder on that end.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.


Not a bad plan but for right now KCP getting 33mins compared to JC's 21mins doesnt make a lot of sense.

KCP: 11pts 40% 31% 5rebs 2.5asts

Clarkson: 15.5pts 51% 40% 2.4rebs 2.7asts

It may not be quantifiable, but if you take Pope off this team, I’m not sure this team is half as good defensively.

Sometimes players provide intangibles — aspects that numbers can’t show. I think Pope’s bulldog mentality has had a tremendous effect on this team, but, of course, I can’t begin to proof it.

I mean, how do you not play defense when he’s on your team? It’d be difficult to watch him as your teammate and not, at the very least, try a little bit harder on that end.


KCP's a good defender but his drpm has never shown that but after watching him play he's above average. What he does well on the defense side he negates by the many shots he has missed this season.

Its still early but he needs to find his shot again
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.


Not a bad plan but for right now KCP getting 33mins compared to JC's 21mins doesnt make a lot of sense.

KCP: 11pts 40% 31% 5rebs 2.5asts

Clarkson: 15.5pts 51% 40% 2.4rebs 2.7asts

It may not be quantifiable, but if you take Pope off this team, I’m not sure this team is half as good defensively.

Sometimes players provide intangibles — aspects that numbers can’t show. I think Pope’s bulldog mentality has had a tremendous effect on this team, but, of course, I can’t begin to proof it.

I mean, how do you not play defense when he’s on your team? It’d be difficult to watch him as your teammate and not, at the very least, try a little bit harder on that end.


He's a good defender but his drpm has never shown that but after watching him play he's above average. What he does well on the defense side he negates by the many shots he has miss this season.

Its still early but he needs to find his shot again

All that is quite fair, but to suggest that Clarkson is more valuable to this team’s success, and should get more minutes, would be negating Pope’s defensive impact in favor of Clarkson’s more “sexy” offensive impact.

It’d be quite typical and ordinary to do this. Hopefully the coaching staff isn’t.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject:

I look at the season 10 games at a time.

With my 20/20 vision (with corrective lenses) I have analyzed Clarkson to have played better so I would play him more in the next 10. If KCP finds his shot it could change my mind
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject:

I think we've seen what a 30mpg level JC gives us. I like the 22-23mpg version better. Seems much more focused and sharp.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
I look at the season 10 games at a time.

With my 20/20 vision (with corrective lenses) I have analyzed Clarkson to have played better so I would play him more in the next 10. If KCP finds his shot it could change my mind

No mention of defense. Keep Stevie Wondering on that end my man.

The biggest reason this team is a better team than last year is because of defense, and Pope, from a spiritually intangible POV, has probably been the catalyst for the improvement on that end.

You can choose not to see it if you like, but, to me, it’s clear as day.

Numbers be damned.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.


Not a bad plan but for right now KCP getting 33mins compared to JC's 21mins doesnt make a lot of sense.

KCP: 11pts 40% 31% 5rebs 2.5asts

Clarkson: 15.5pts 51% 40% 2.4rebs 2.7asts

It may not be quantifiable, but if you take Pope off this team, I’m not sure this team is half as good defensively.

Sometimes players provide intangibles — aspects that numbers can’t show. I think Pope’s bulldog mentality has had a tremendous effect on this team, but, of course, I can’t begin to proof it.

I mean, how do you not play defense when he’s on your team? It’d be difficult to watch him as your teammate and not, at the very least, try a little bit harder on that end.


KCP's a good defender but his drpm has never shown that but after watching him play he's above average. What he does well on the defense side he negates by the many shots he has missed this season.

Its still early but he needs to find his shot again


KCP has some dog in him and takes it personally when someone scores on him. I love that attitude. Dude tries out there.

JC also has been trying harder on D as well since KCP has been here. IMO JC has the tools to be a better defender than KCP, but up until this point the effort has not been there.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject:

Clear as day and often in flight

KCP's shot misses try as he might
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the key is to not play JC in a "set" offense. He doesn't seem to have the vision/discipline for that. He likes the high P&R sets which when it works, is dynamic. The key IMO is to yank him out of the game when he goes ISO heavy and tunnel visioned.


Luke overplayed his effectiveness against the Bucks. He is simply a scorer off the bench. Ride him when he’s hot and sit him out when he’s not. That should be his role, nothing more and nothing less.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clear as day and often in flight

KCP's shot misses try as he might

Clarkson, to the hole with quickness
In all of his richness
But can’t defend the hole
Just like all of his b-i-t-c-h-e-s.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clear as day and often in flight

KCP's shot misses try as he might

Clarkson, to the hole with quickness
In all of his richness
But can’t defend the hole
Just like all of his b-i-t-c-h-e-s.




Alright im done talking Clarkson for one day take it easy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Kjj10697X wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
Clarkson at this point is our best scorer and hes not getting enough minutes. I don't care if he start as long as he's getting 30mins a game but I think the easiest way to do that is to start him at SG.


I don’t know about starting but he needs more than 20. I think Luke needs to play Zo, KCP, and JC for PG and SG. Sprinkle in Hart every so often and let KCP back up BI for SF. Cut out Brewe unless we are playing the Suns.


Not a bad plan but for right now KCP getting 33mins compared to JC's 21mins doesnt make a lot of sense.

KCP: 11pts 40% 31% 5rebs 2.5asts

Clarkson: 15.5pts 51% 40% 2.4rebs 2.7asts


Clarkson needs to starr.. He's been replaced.by far interior players the last 3 years.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think we've seen what a 30mpg level JC gives us. I like the 22-23mpg version better. Seems much more focused and sharp.


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900475
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think we've seen what a 30mpg level JC gives us. I like the 22-23mpg version better. Seems much more focused and sharp.


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900475


OK. But you add in all of last season too or just using a 1 or limited game sample? Have you heard his interviews? Rambling. I think it's an attention span issue. I think he's perfect in his current minutes, and if he's hot and playing well, ride the momentum. But he also needs to be yanked out if he reverts.

Overall pleased with his progress this year, but I think the key is the shortened minutes per game.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think we've seen what a 30mpg level JC gives us. I like the 22-23mpg version better. Seems much more focused and sharp.


http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400900475


OK. But you add in all of last season too or just using a 1 or limited game sample? Have you heard his interviews? Rambling. I think it's an attention span issue. I think he's perfect in his current minutes, and if he's hot and playing well, ride the momentum. But he also needs to be yanked out if he reverts.

Overall pleased with his progress this year, but I think the key is the shortened minutes per game.


I just grabbed a random performance.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject:

2015-16 (32mpg): 15.5/2.4apg
2016-17 (29mpg): 14.7/2.6apg

2017-18 (21mpg): 15.5/2.7apg.

I think keeping him in shorter spurts is helping him.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
2015-16 (32mpg): 15.5/2.4apg
2016-17 (29mpg): 14.7/2.6apg

2017-18 (21mpg): 15.5/2.7apg.

I think keeping him in shorter spurts is helping him.


the numbers do not really support the theory....looking across multiple years for a young developing player does not really mean much.

In 2017-2018:

Games with at least 23 minutes (5) - 21 PPG
Games with less than 23 minutes (9) - 13 PPG

One can argue the chicken and egg theory as to he got more minutes because he was playing well....but as it relates to scoring, the more minutes he receives, the more effective he is in putting points on the board.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
2015-16 (32mpg): 15.5/2.4apg
2016-17 (29mpg): 14.7/2.6apg

2017-18 (21mpg): 15.5/2.7apg.

I think keeping him in shorter spurts is helping him.


the numbers do not really support the theory....looking across multiple years for a young developing player does not really mean much.

In 2017-2018:

Games with at least 23 minutes (5) - 21 PPG
Games with less than 23 minutes (9) - 13 PPG

One can argue the chicken and egg theory as to he got more minutes because he was playing well....but as it relates to scoring, the more minutes he receives, the more effective he is in putting points on the board.


I think you can make any number of conclusions based on that. But you can't discount his recent history either, especially as an older "young" player. I'm doubtful if you give him 32 mpg that he would be as efficacious.
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