OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 747, 748, 749 ... 1225, 1226, 1227  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 7945
Location: Eagle Rock

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
BI will come around. Kid is only 20. His shot will fall again. Have a little faith.

I just can't. His statistical markers are hardly better than Julius's when it comes to shooting. That scares me.


I understand where you a coming from. You know way more about BBall than I do. But I do know that guys who are humble and have good work ethics tend to improve over time.

BI is really skinny and gets pushed around a lot still. When he adds more strength he will be better. He is a project that is for sure, but I think he will end up and allstar. The flashes are there.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 93522
Location: Do you believe in Magic?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
bballchinaski wrote:
for a dude who preaches patience for young guys you seem to jump on ingram quite fast. Didnt saw you wanting to get rid of him when his jumper was falling, if it falls again do you want to trade him?

Let go of the dlo stuff, it's over man.


Lol at bringing up Russell, I didn't say anything about him. Weird how I'm able to be very optimistic about Lonzo, Kuzma, & even Randle now without Russell getting in the way, but for some reason I can't do it with Ingram. It isn't how these guys...I dunno...ACTUALLY PLAY...it's that.

And when, pray tell, was his jumper falling? He's made 7 threes this year. He's constantly passing up shots that other guys would take and make at a decent clip.

He hasn't played well by any of the metrics that I value for ALL players, bears little to no statistical resemblance to any of the guys that we hope he'll become when they were the same age. Even in the best case scenario, he's a couple of years away from being a 3rd option on a championship contender who's capable of knocking down open 3's with consistency.

Here's a newsflash. If we sign LeBron James, who will be 34 early next season...we're trying to win a title right away. What Brandon Ingram (or any of our other players for that matter) could be when they're 25 is pretty irrelevant to that cause. When the Cavs signed LeBron, they traded Andrew Wiggins...who projected to be a better prospect than Ingram...for a 3rd-option in Kevin Love.

But we wouldn't do the same because a couple of decision-makers that didn't draft him think that maybe Ingram (or anyone else on this team) might be really good...some day? But I guess I'm just saying all that because I just can't get over the Russell trade and none of it actually makes sense.


*finished with my popcorn.
_________________
We have LBJ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 9194

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
governator wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
governator wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think ideally, Ingram would be a 3rd option who can pick up some of the scoring slack with the 2nd unit. No confidence in his jumper, his FTs stink, and his finishing on half court drives are very inconsistent.

Being thrust into the #1 scoring option early on was tough. He's sort of settling behind Brook as a 1B option, though I still think he's not ready for that role on a playoff level team.

With the trade, I feel like guys like Lonzo/Ingram were put into situations that were not completely ideal (Lonzo needing another facilitator at the guard position in half court; Ingram with having a more versatile perimeter scorer to take the load off of him). It's sink or swim and hopefully we get our 2 max guys who can help Lonzo/Ingram grow a bit more naturally into their roles.

with 2 max platers, BI can go focus on lock down D (and shoot 3)... imagine a 6'9 with 7'3 wingspan T.Allen


With 2 max players, you need guys who can catch & shoot. If we get LBJ & George, I think Ingram is a prime candidate to be moved for a third star who's already under contract.


Like who (and does math $ works)?


There is nobody.


The Cavs D-brothers, Wade and Rose...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject:

Back to that "He's not good at this narrative, so odds are he'll always not be good at this". smh..

I still maintain those statistical markers are meaningless when trying to project or predict a prospects potential or trajectory.

I'm actually surprised that people even engage in this sort of thing for players that are so raw and undeveloped. Doesn't make an ounce of sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 16362

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
bballchinaski wrote:
for a dude who preaches patience for young guys you seem to jump on ingram quite fast. Didnt saw you wanting to get rid of him when his jumper was falling, if it falls again do you want to trade him?

Let go of the dlo stuff, it's over man.


Lol at bringing up Russell, I didn't say anything about him. Weird how I'm able to be very optimistic about Lonzo, Kuzma, & even Randle now without Russell getting in the way, but for some reason I can't do it with Ingram. It isn't how these guys...I dunno...ACTUALLY PLAY...it's that.

And when, pray tell, was his jumper falling? He's made 7 threes this year. He's constantly passing up shots that other guys would take and make at a decent clip.

He hasn't played well by any of the metrics that I value for ALL players, bears little to no statistical resemblance to any of the guys that we hope he'll become when they were the same age. Even in the best case scenario, he's a couple of years away from being a 3rd option on a championship contender who's capable of knocking down open 3's with consistency.

Here's a newsflash. If we sign LeBron James, who will be 34 early next season...we're trying to win a title right away. What Brandon Ingram (or any of our other players for that matter) could be when they're 25 is pretty irrelevant to that cause. When the Cavs signed LeBron, they traded Andrew Wiggins...who projected to be a better prospect than Ingram...for a 3rd-option in Kevin Love.

But we wouldn't do the same because a couple of decision-makers that didn't draft him think that maybe Ingram (or anyone else on this team) might be really good...some day? But I guess I'm just saying all that because I just can't get over the Russell trade and none of it actually makes sense.


Haven't you heard? The new defense for being critical of Ingram or any other young player already put on a pedestal is "You're just mad Russell got traded!!!"
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tox
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 13634

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Back to that "He's not good at this narrative, so odds are he'll always not be good at this". smh..

I still maintain those statistical markers are meaningless when trying to project or predict a prospects potential or trajectory.

I'm actually surprised that people even engage in this sort of thing for players that are so raw and undeveloped. Doesn't make an ounce of sense.

Are you arguing how good a player is at shooting when he is 20 has no bearing on how good that player will be at shooting in his prime? That's ridiculous.

Certainly it'd be dumb to rule out BI figuring out how to shoot. But skepticism and/or concern seem perfectly reasonable to me. For every Aaron Gordon, there is a Julius Randle.
_________________
https://j.gifs.com/Rnqnbk.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dao
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5561

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject:

he had a tough road trip, but he had nice stats before this three game skid. I believe his stats were like 15 ppg, 52.3 TS%, with solid defense as well. So now after three bad games, the sky is falling again. His detractors had been eerily quiet but now are coming out of the woodwork after a few bad games.

Ingram will sink or swim with his jump shot. Hopefully it comes around. It either will or won't, time will tell.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject:

Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Back to that "He's not good at this narrative, so odds are he'll always not be good at this". smh..

I still maintain those statistical markers are meaningless when trying to project or predict a prospects potential or trajectory.

I'm actually surprised that people even engage in this sort of thing for players that are so raw and undeveloped. Doesn't make an ounce of sense.

Are you arguing how good a player is at shooting when he is 20 has no bearing on how good that player will be at shooting in his prime? That's ridiculous.

Certainly it'd be dumb to rule out BI figuring out how to shoot. But skepticism and/or concern seem perfectly reasonable to me. For every Aaron Gordon, there is a Julius Randle.


That is exactly what I'm arguing.. My point is we don't have a clue as to how things will turn out. Stats on raw prospects aren't a window into the future. I think its absurd to suggest they are. In addition when those stats don't jive with the reality of an individual player becoming proficient in an area that they struggled in it is simply chalked up as an outlier.

I will agree being concerned seems reasonable. Wouldn't make any long term assumptions based on current play though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dao
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5561

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.
even when he was playing well, I told you man, he was passing up open threes. His shooting continues to be an issue. He'll break out of the funk soon and play like he was playing before the slump. But the shooting thing is a real problem.

I don't understand how the Celtics can turn Jaylen Brown into a 3 point shooter but the Lakers can't do the same with Ingram.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.
even when he was playing well, I told you man, he was passing up open threes. His shooting continues to be an issue. He'll break out of the funk soon and play like he was playing before the slump. But the shooting thing is a real problem.

I don't understand how the Celtics can turn Jaylen Brown into a 3 point shooter but the Lakers can't do the same with Ingram.


No doubt about it.. his shooting is atrocious.

I don't expect it to be a long term issue simply because he understands it's an issue, and the coaching staff. He's working hard to rectify it. I think it's reasonable to expect his shot to get better if he's working his ass off to fix it.

Hard to imagine a scenario in which a guy is working hard to improve on an area of his game and never see any improvement.

Some believe he'll turn the corner at some point, but make the argument that we don't have time to wait on him to develop. I suppose that's debatable. One could make that argument, though I don't agree with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PurpleAndGOAT
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1351
Location: City of Angels

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject:

I fully believe in Ingram. On offense he has already shown to get buckets driving to the hoop whether by scoring or drawing fouls, as far as his jumper goes it will come eventually. On defense he's already got it figured out and he could be dominant with his frame. You guys gotta remember he was the youngest player in the ENTIRE draft.
_________________
Lake Show
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
manlisten
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 1606

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
he had a tough road trip, but he had nice stats before this three game skid. I believe his stats were like 15 ppg, 52.3 TS%, with solid defense as well. So now after three bad games, the sky is falling again. His detractors had been eerily quiet but now are coming out of the woodwork after a few bad games.

Ingram will sink or swim with his jump shot. Hopefully it comes around. It either will or won't, time will tell.


This. I think some people want Ingram to fail just to justify their early evaluations.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dao
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5561

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
dao wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.
even when he was playing well, I told you man, he was passing up open threes. His shooting continues to be an issue. He'll break out of the funk soon and play like he was playing before the slump. But the shooting thing is a real problem.

I don't understand how the Celtics can turn Jaylen Brown into a 3 point shooter but the Lakers can't do the same with Ingram.


No doubt about it.. his shooting is atrocious.

I don't expect it to be a long term issue simply because he understands it's an issue, and the coaching staff. He's working hard to rectify it. I think it's reasonable to expect his shot to get better if he's working his ass off to fix it.

Hard to imagine a scenario in which a guy is working hard to improve on an area of his game and never see any improvement.

Some believe he'll turn the corner at some point, but make the argument that we don't have time to wait on him to develop. I suppose that's debatable. One could make that argument, though I don't agree with it.

I disagree with that. It's not hard at all to imagine a scenario where someone fails to become a good shooter. It happens all the time.

He's clanking free throws. He really hasn't shown one shred of shooting improvement since he's been in the league. That's baffling to me because he projected to be a solid shooter coming out of the draft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
dao wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.
even when he was playing well, I told you man, he was passing up open threes. His shooting continues to be an issue. He'll break out of the funk soon and play like he was playing before the slump. But the shooting thing is a real problem.

I don't understand how the Celtics can turn Jaylen Brown into a 3 point shooter but the Lakers can't do the same with Ingram.


No doubt about it.. his shooting is atrocious.

I don't expect it to be a long term issue simply because he understands it's an issue, and the coaching staff. He's working hard to rectify it. I think it's reasonable to expect his shot to get better if he's working his ass off to fix it.

Hard to imagine a scenario in which a guy is working hard to improve on an area of his game and never see any improvement.

Some believe he'll turn the corner at some point, but make the argument that we don't have time to wait on him to develop. I suppose that's debatable. One could make that argument, though I don't agree with it.

I disagree with that. It's not hard at all to imagine a scenario where someone fails to become a good shooter. It happens all the time.

He's clanking free throws. He really hasn't shown one shred of shooting improvement since he's been in the league. That's baffling to me because he projected to be a solid shooter coming out of the draft.


You might want to refer to his shooting percentage from midrange last season. It was just as good as Derozane's.

Seems reasonable to expect struggles when your shot mechanics are overhauled. Which accounts for the current struggles in my opinion.

At the heart of what I'm communicating is that we have no idea whether or not it will improve. Especially after just one season of play. To even suggest that it wouldn't makes no sense to me.

This isn't a matter I believe is worth debating all that much because I can't prove to you or anyone else that he'll get better, nor can you prove that he won't.

Time will be the arbiter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 36610

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Back to that "He's not good at this narrative, so odds are he'll always not be good at this". smh..

I still maintain those statistical markers are meaningless when trying to project or predict a prospects potential or trajectory.

I'm actually surprised that people even engage in this sort of thing for players that are so raw and undeveloped. Doesn't make an ounce of sense.


Players usually become better versions of what they are early on. If you told me that he'll eventually one of the better players in the NBA at driving to the rim in the future, I would totally buy that, because he's really good at that for his age and position. There are always outliers, but you can usually see what type of player they're going to be at this point.
_________________
Sign up for The Athletic through this link to get 40% off your first year's subscription: LINK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Back to that "He's not good at this narrative, so odds are he'll always not be good at this". smh..

I still maintain those statistical markers are meaningless when trying to project or predict a prospects potential or trajectory.

I'm actually surprised that people even engage in this sort of thing for players that are so raw and undeveloped. Doesn't make an ounce of sense.


Players usually become better versions of what they are early on. If you told me that he'll eventually one of the better players in the NBA at driving to the rim in the future, I would totally buy that, because he's really good at that for his age and position. There are always outliers, but you can usually see what type of player they're going to be at this point.


That's valid..

I'm merely stating that it's reasonable to expect him to improve in an aspect of his game that he's deficient in. And that it is more likely that he improves than it is that it is an issue he'll struggle with for the duration of his NBA career.

Players add new wrinkles to their games during the offseason regularly. Every year it was something new we'd see from Kobe when he was developing. Lebron didn't have a post game, outside shot, or played defense all that well initially. That has changed. Giannis now hits open mid range shots. Kid was a lousy 3pt shooter. There are many more examples.

One could accuse me of being overly optimistic with our young prospects, and I'll acknowledge there probably is truth in such a position. With that being said expecting him to become at least a decent shooter seems within the realm of reason to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 16362

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Alright we can go on about Ingram's potential and what he projects to be.

But I have one question for people that find it "impossible to believe" or want to even trade Ingram for a 2nd/3rd option of an established talent.

Here's my very basic question.

If our rookie Kyle Kuzma was a Small Forward. Would you be starting Ingram over him right now?


If your answer is no.. then you really don't have a leg to stand on as far as "Trading Ingram for a 3rd established talent? LOL!!!" goes.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 36610

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
That's valid..

I'm merely stating that it's reasonable to expect him to improve in an aspect of his game that he's deficient in. And that it is more likely that he improves than it is that it is an issue he'll struggle with for the duration of his NBA career.

Players add new wrinkles to their games during the offseason regularly. Every year it was something new we'd see from Kobe when he was developing. Lebron didn't have a post game, outside shot, or played defense all that well initially. That has changed. Giannis now hits open mid range shots. Kid was a lousy 3pt shooter. There are many more examples.

One could accuse me of being overly optimistic with our young prospects, and I'll acknowledge there probably is truth in such a position. With that being said expecting him to become at least a decent shooter seems within the realm of reason to me.


I don't think it's unreasonable that he'll become a decent shooter either. It's a question of when, and to what degree.

1) If we don't sign two max guys, this conversation is moot and Ingram will almost certainly be a Laker.

2) If we sign Paul George & DeMarcus Cousins, Ingram's probably going to still be a Laker, because the window is open for a little longer.

3) If we sign LeBron & either George or DMC, we're trying to win an NBA title next season. So who Ingram or anyone else is right now...or more accurately, who they are in July 2018...matters a lot. Being able to iso from the mid post and drive right effectively on occasion becomes a lot less important with two max guys around, who will be your go-to guys.

I think there's more urgency to Ingram's development than many people believe.
_________________
Sign up for The Athletic through this link to get 40% off your first year's subscription: LINK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
That's valid..

I'm merely stating that it's reasonable to expect him to improve in an aspect of his game that he's deficient in. And that it is more likely that he improves than it is that it is an issue he'll struggle with for the duration of his NBA career.

Players add new wrinkles to their games during the offseason regularly. Every year it was something new we'd see from Kobe when he was developing. Lebron didn't have a post game, outside shot, or played defense all that well initially. That has changed. Giannis now hits open mid range shots. Kid was a lousy 3pt shooter. There are many more examples.

One could accuse me of being overly optimistic with our young prospects, and I'll acknowledge there probably is truth in such a position. With that being said expecting him to become at least a decent shooter seems within the realm of reason to me.


I don't think it's unreasonable that he'll become a decent shooter either. It's a question of when, and to what degree.

1) If we don't sign two max guys, this conversation is moot and Ingram will almost certainly be a Laker.

2) If we sign Paul George & DeMarcus Cousins, Ingram's probably going to still be a Laker, because the window is open for a little longer.

3) If we sign LeBron & either George or DMC, we're trying to win an NBA title next season. So who Ingram or anyone else is right now...or more accurately, who they are in July 2018...matters a lot. Being able to iso from the mid post and drive right effectively on occasion becomes a lot less important with two max guys around, who will be your go-to guys.

I think there's more urgency to Ingram's development than many people believe.


I agree with everything stated for the most part. Who we're able to acquire via free agency will weigh on the front offices willingness to deal him. Hard to say how much, or to what extent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 128003
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.


And you conveniently omit the largest group here, those in the middle. Ingram hasn’t shot well all season but had some success driving to the rim until teams started game planning for it. He is far from a bust and far from being a solid starter.
_________________
It’s a girl, my lord, in a flat bed Ford.......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SocalDevin
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 4308
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.


And you conveniently omit the largest group here, those in the middle. Ingram hasn’t shot well all season but had some success driving to the rim until teams started game planning for it. He is far from a bust and far from being a solid starter.


My omission was intentional. I think it goes without saying that most of us hold the position you articulated. Just stating that those polar narratives I highlighted drive the direction of this thread from time to time. =)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dao
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5561

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
dao wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
dao wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Great game.. "this is why he's untouchable"

Bad game.. "he's probably getting traded, or maybe he should"

The ebbs and flows of this thread has become pretty predictable..

I suppose this takes place in every player thread though. Maybe not in the Clarkson thread, most would like him traded regardless lol.
even when he was playing well, I told you man, he was passing up open threes. His shooting continues to be an issue. He'll break out of the funk soon and play like he was playing before the slump. But the shooting thing is a real problem.

I don't understand how the Celtics can turn Jaylen Brown into a 3 point shooter but the Lakers can't do the same with Ingram.


No doubt about it.. his shooting is atrocious.

I don't expect it to be a long term issue simply because he understands it's an issue, and the coaching staff. He's working hard to rectify it. I think it's reasonable to expect his shot to get better if he's working his ass off to fix it.

Hard to imagine a scenario in which a guy is working hard to improve on an area of his game and never see any improvement.

Some believe he'll turn the corner at some point, but make the argument that we don't have time to wait on him to develop. I suppose that's debatable. One could make that argument, though I don't agree with it.

I disagree with that. It's not hard at all to imagine a scenario where someone fails to become a good shooter. It happens all the time.

He's clanking free throws. He really hasn't shown one shred of shooting improvement since he's been in the league. That's baffling to me because he projected to be a solid shooter coming out of the draft.


You might want to refer to his shooting percentage from midrange last season. It was just as good as Derozane's.

Seems reasonable to expect struggles when your shot mechanics are overhauled. Which accounts for the current struggles in my opinion.

At the heart of what I'm communicating is that we have no idea whether or not it will improve. Especially after just one season of play. To even suggest that it wouldn't makes no sense to me.

This isn't a matter I believe is worth debating all that much because I can't prove to you or anyone else that he'll get better, nor can you prove that he won't.

Time will be the arbiter.
I know his midrange stats very well. He shot an elite midrange percentage post-all star break, which is what makes his current shooting struggles so concerning. Thus far it seems that he regressed over the offseason. Whatever they're doing with his shot, well, it ain't working. Not now at least. And he is a wreck from the FT line, which makes it even more concerning.

It's still very early in the season, and he could turn it around. And hell, he's 20 for (bleep) sake. There are plenty of guys who weren't good shooters at age 20 that eventually became solid shooters. But I want to see progress, and thus far, we haven't really seen any. It's a bit concerning even for a bonafide Ingram hugger like myself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tox
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 13634

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
tox wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Back to that "He's not good at this narrative, so odds are he'll always not be good at this". smh..

I still maintain those statistical markers are meaningless when trying to project or predict a prospects potential or trajectory.

I'm actually surprised that people even engage in this sort of thing for players that are so raw and undeveloped. Doesn't make an ounce of sense.

Are you arguing how good a player is at shooting when he is 20 has no bearing on how good that player will be at shooting in his prime? That's ridiculous.

Certainly it'd be dumb to rule out BI figuring out how to shoot. But skepticism and/or concern seem perfectly reasonable to me. For every Aaron Gordon, there is a Julius Randle.


That is exactly what I'm arguing.. My point is we don't have a clue as to how things will turn out. Stats on raw prospects aren't a window into the future. I think its absurd to suggest they are. In addition when those stats don't jive with the reality of an individual player becoming proficient in an area that they struggled in it is simply chalked up as an outlier.

I will agree being concerned seems reasonable. Wouldn't make any long term assumptions based on current play though.

See to me this is silly.
Obviously there is uncertainty one way or another. But that doesn't mean stats aren't somewhat predictive. If I told you a player were a really good shooter at age 25, and I asked you to guess -- do you think, at age 20, that he shot 65% from FT and avoided shooting jumpers as much as possible, or that he shot 77% from FT and was comfortable shooting jumpers?

Obviously, it's the latter. It's asinine to argue there's no predictive value in how a player is shooting as a 20 y/o. There is some predictive value. Ergo, based on what we've seen from Ingram, I'm worried. I'm not writing him off or anything, but I'm worried.
_________________
https://j.gifs.com/Rnqnbk.gif


Last edited by tox on Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bballchinaski
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
bballchinaski wrote:
for a dude who preaches patience for young guys you seem to jump on ingram quite fast. Didnt saw you wanting to get rid of him when his jumper was falling, if it falls again do you want to trade him?

Let go of the dlo stuff, it's over man.


Lol at bringing up Russell, I didn't say anything about him. Weird how I'm able to be very optimistic about Lonzo, Kuzma, & even Randle now without Russell getting in the way, but for some reason I can't do it with Ingram. It isn't how these guys...I dunno...ACTUALLY PLAY...it's that.

And when, pray tell, was his jumper falling? He's made 7 threes this year. He's constantly passing up shots that other guys would take and make at a decent clip.

He hasn't played well by any of the metrics that I value for ALL players, bears little to no statistical resemblance to any of the guys that we hope he'll become when they were the same age. Even in the best case scenario, he's a couple of years away from being a 3rd option on a championship contender who's capable of knocking down open 3's with consistency.

Here's a newsflash. If we sign LeBron James, who will be 34 early next season...we're trying to win a title right away. What Brandon Ingram (or any of our other players for that matter) could be when they're 25 is pretty irrelevant to that cause. When the Cavs signed LeBron, they traded Andrew Wiggins...who projected to be a better prospect than Ingram...for a 3rd-option in Kevin Love.

But we wouldn't do the same because a couple of decision-makers that didn't draft him think that maybe Ingram (or anyone else on this team) might be really good...some day? But I guess I'm just saying all that because I just can't get over the Russell trade and none of it actually makes sense.


You gotta have a big bias to think that randle will somehow end up a better nba player than randle, but alas

I only wrote what i wrote cause you only have backhanded compliments for ingram, you were always down on him and up on russell - who for all his merits and talent is a lazy player who plays no defense and turns the ball over like crazy - and then you come into this thread talking about trading this kid. I find it slimy, just that, let ingram be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 747, 748, 749 ... 1225, 1226, 1227  Next
Page 748 of 1227
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB