OFFICIAL D'ANGELO RUSSELL THREAD....
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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
He was ridiculously good for long stretches in this game.

It's fascinating to see him adjust to such a ball dominant role as a spread PnR lead guard and get it so quickly. He'll need to continue to cut down on turnovers and improve decisionmaking, there will be setbacks, etc., but he's really started controlling games like a seasoned pro PG.

Combine that with his somewhat surprising improvement attacking the rim (the additional space helps) and getting to the line, and he's looking like some of our projections for him last season might've been a little conservative. We'll have to see how he does after he recuperates, but a Lillard-esque trajectory seems possible, imo.

DLO's stats last year with a Young/Deng/Tarik or Nance/Moz lineup last year were incredible. That's a lineup where he had almost all of the offensive responsibility, and yeah he just killed it. I'm not that surprised he's playing well..
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tnell wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
His “value” was “low” anyways so maybe it might have been worthwhile to see them together for 2 months?


According to some on here they had to move him because he was a cancer. The front office, coaching staff, and teammates didn't like him according to experts on here.


Unfortunately that's the only one that mattered and they were right. Mozdeng. The Gift that Keeps on Giving.


Couldn't we have just waited until they expired and gone into the 2020 offseason with:

D'Angelo Russell (24)
Lonzo Ball (22)
Brandon Ingram (22)
Kyle Kuzma (24)

...and a crapload of cap space?


Magic is my favorite athlete all time but dude has never been a “patient” type of guy. He wants it now.


Then he shouldn't be running a team and lacks the temperment, foresight and patience necessary to be in charge of basketball decisions.



It very well could be that Jeanie is/was involved with setting the timeline on when milestones were to be achieved.

She wasn't going to replace Mitch & Jim with people who would be out of synch with her timeline for goals/objectives/expectations.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tnell wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
His “value” was “low” anyways so maybe it might have been worthwhile to see them together for 2 months?


According to some on here they had to move him because he was a cancer. The front office, coaching staff, and teammates didn't like him according to experts on here.


Unfortunately that's the only one that mattered and they were right. Mozdeng. The Gift that Keeps on Giving.


Couldn't we have just waited until they expired and gone into the 2020 offseason with:

D'Angelo Russell (24)
Lonzo Ball (22)
Brandon Ingram (22)
Kyle Kuzma (24)

...and a crapload of cap space?


Magic is my favorite athlete all time but dude has never been a “patient” type of guy. He wants it now.


Then he shouldn't be running a team and lacks the temperment, foresight and patience necessary to be in charge of basketball decisions.



It very well could be that Jeanie is/was involved with setting the timeline on when milestones were to be achieved.

She wasn't going to replace Mitch & Jim with people who would be out of synch with her timeline for goals/objectives/expectations.


^
Jeanie wrote:
(on strategy and decision making) "The way I was brought up, the way I was trained was that you always want to be in the playoffs. You always want to stay relevant... a bad year would be losing in the second round and a great year would be winning the championship. You can't always do that, but your players have to have playoff experience. It's a different game in the playoffs. So these teams that say 'we need to tank and we need to get really bad for a long time' - their players aren't gaining any valuable experience, you're wasting their time. Maybe even doing damage to their psyche... You should have the goal of getting in the playoffs and then things can happen... one broken hand, one bad knee away, and then you pull an upset. And the players gaining that playoff experience, it's like money in the bank."
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GreekTrojan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Hope DLo gets well soon. As much as the character stuff has come up, his reoccuring knee issues were another reason he became movable. This one isn't serious but Russell is a marginal NBA athlete and a knee injury could derail his career. I hope it doesn't but thats a lot of risk for whoever wants to sign him after next season.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:55 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Funny how most were like how ZO-DLo back court will be one of the worst defensively. While ZO is playing good defense and Lakers really missing a 20 PPG scorer who can close the games.


Lonzo's playing good help defense and is decent on-ball when not matched up w/ the lead guard, who he'd probably be guarding if DLo was his teammate.

GoldenThroat wrote:
Couldn't we have just waited until they expired and gone into the 2020 offseason with:

D'Angelo Russell (24)
Lonzo Ball (22)
Brandon Ingram (22)
Kyle Kuzma (24)

...and a crapload of cap space?
That homegrown talent + 1 max star plan was safer bet to build a contender, but probably limits the type of max player who'd sign here. By then, Lonzo and BI would have usage rates in the mid-20% range, plus DLo's would be ~30%. Who would fit with that group besides guys like Klay, or DeAndre Jordan?

GS starters combined for about 110% last year, but they have multiple players who are effective on or off the ball. Thunder are struggling with 110% combined in their starting lineup, as their stars are ball-dominant. Based on this season and last spring, we are seeing DLo needs the ball in his hands to play best.
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tox
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Funny how most were like how ZO-DLo back court will be one of the worst defensively. While ZO is playing good defense and Lakers really missing a 20 PPG scorer who can close the games.


Lonzo's playing good help defense and is decent on-ball when not matched up w/ the lead guard, who he'd probably be guarding if DLo was his teammate.

GoldenThroat wrote:
Couldn't we have just waited until they expired and gone into the 2020 offseason with:

D'Angelo Russell (24)
Lonzo Ball (22)
Brandon Ingram (22)
Kyle Kuzma (24)

...and a crapload of cap space?
That homegrown talent + 1 max star plan was safer bet to build a contender, but probably limits the type of max player who'd sign here. By then, Lonzo and BI would have usage rates in the mid-20% range, plus DLo's would be ~30%. Who would fit with that group besides guys like Klay, or DeAndre Jordan?

GS starters combined for about 110% last year, but they have multiple players who are effective on or off the ball. Thunder are struggling with 110% combined in their starting lineup, as their stars are ball-dominant. Based on this season and last spring, we are seeing DLo needs the ball in his hands to play best.

DLO was guarding 1s last year alongside Nick (Lonzo's better than him), Deng (Ingram's arguably better than him? Close?), Randle (anyone's better than last year Randle), and Mozgov (he'd be the same in this scenario).

That lineup was good defensively.

I see no reason why Russell/ Lonzo/ BI/ Nance/ Mozgov would be any worse.

Russell and Lonzo can both play off ball and the goal is for BI to get to that point so that's also a silly point.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
DLO was guarding 1s last year alongside Nick (Lonzo's better than him), Deng (Ingram's arguably better than him? Close?), Randle (anyone's better than last year Randle), and Mozgov (he'd be the same in this scenario).

That lineup was good defensively.

I see no reason why Russell/ Lonzo/ BI/ Nance/ Mozgov would be any worse.

Russell and Lonzo can both play off ball and the goal is for BI to get to that point so that's also a silly point.
That starting lineup played 14 minutes a game and only appeared in 28 games last season. It wasn't sustainable, and was only a substantial positive (110/103) because Young/DLo were on fire early in the season, and Deng hadn't yet fully decayed. The hot shooting led to fewer opposing transition plays and had opponents playing from behind. Looking at Russell individually with each of those starters, his defensive rating ranged from 106-114 in two-man lineups.

Off ball, DLo isn't much of a cutter and prefers to pull up off the dribble to running hard to a spot and catching a pass. He was invisible in the games where JC ran point last year, even when Mr. Tunnel Vision himself had 7-8 assists. Recently, the DLo/Dinwiddie experiment lasted one game. So far, he and Ingram have been shadows of themselves while playing off teammates, unlike Klay and Steph during their formative years when they shared the ball with Monta or Jack.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:11 am    Post subject:

He has another knee injury now. I've always wondered if worries about his health were part of the reason they unloaded him. Clearly he has tons of talent, but remember that stretch where they had to shut him down last year, and now that's already happened twice this year in like 13 games.
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tnell wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
His “value” was “low” anyways so maybe it might have been worthwhile to see them together for 2 months?


According to some on here they had to move him because he was a cancer. The front office, coaching staff, and teammates didn't like him according to experts on here.


Unfortunately that's the only one that mattered and they were right. Mozdeng. The Gift that Keeps on Giving.


Couldn't we have just waited until they expired and gone into the 2020 offseason with:

D'Angelo Russell (24)
Lonzo Ball (22)
Brandon Ingram (22)
Kyle Kuzma (24)

...and a crapload of cap space?


Magic is my favorite athlete all time but dude has never been a “patient” type of guy. He wants it now.


Then he shouldn't be running a team and lacks the temperment, foresight and patience necessary to be in charge of basketball decisions.



It very well could be that Jeanie is/was involved with setting the timeline on when milestones were to be achieved.

She wasn't going to replace Mitch & Jim with people who would be out of synch with her timeline for goals/objectives/expectations.


^
Jeanie wrote:
(on strategy and decision making) "The way I was brought up, the way I was trained was that you always want to be in the playoffs. You always want to stay relevant... a bad year would be losing in the second round and a great year would be winning the championship. You can't always do that, but your players have to have playoff experience. It's a different game in the playoffs. So these teams that say 'we need to tank and we need to get really bad for a long time' - their players aren't gaining any valuable experience, you're wasting their time. Maybe even doing damage to their psyche... You should have the goal of getting in the playoffs and then things can happen... one broken hand, one bad knee away, and then you pull an upset. And the players gaining that playoff experience, it's like money in the bank."



Thank you for that.


Quote:

The way I was brought up, the way I was trained was that you always want to be in the playoffs. You always want to stay relevant... a bad year would be losing in the second round and a great year would be winning the championship.



I think it is very very dependent on the situation rather than an absolute manifesto the Lakers should follow.

I still have her in the Lakers Exceptionalism group, so she is unable to be objective and recognize (admit?) that the situation isn't exactly the same as it was in the past.
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OregonLakerGuy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

LAPauer wrote:
He has another knee injury now. I've always wondered if worries about his health were part of the reason they unloaded him. Clearly he has tons of talent, but remember that stretch where they had to shut him down last year, and now that's already happened twice this year in like 13 games.


He has a knee contusion. Different from any chronic knee issues.
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22
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject:

Still wishing we had DLO on this team
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tox
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
tox wrote:
DLO was guarding 1s last year alongside Nick (Lonzo's better than him), Deng (Ingram's arguably better than him? Close?), Randle (anyone's better than last year Randle), and Mozgov (he'd be the same in this scenario).

That lineup was good defensively.

I see no reason why Russell/ Lonzo/ BI/ Nance/ Mozgov would be any worse.

Russell and Lonzo can both play off ball and the goal is for BI to get to that point so that's also a silly point.
That starting lineup played 14 minutes a game and only appeared in 28 games last season. It wasn't sustainable, and was only a substantial positive (110/103) because Young/DLo were on fire early in the season, and Deng hadn't yet fully decayed. The hot shooting led to fewer opposing transition plays and had opponents playing from behind. Looking at Russell individually with each of those starters, his defensive rating ranged from 106-114 in two-man lineups.

Off ball, DLo isn't much of a cutter and prefers to pull up off the dribble to running hard to a spot and catching a pass. He was invisible in the games where JC ran point last year, even when Mr. Tunnel Vision himself had 7-8 assists. Recently, the DLo/Dinwiddie experiment lasted one game. So far, he and Ingram have been shadows of themselves while playing off teammates, unlike Klay and Steph during their formative years when they shared the ball with Monta or Jack.


This is honestly ridiculous. The starters played 400 minutes -- that's not insignificant -- and they trended upwards as they played longer together. Nick's 3FG% was lower with the starters (iirc 39%) than it was overall. Unsustainably hot 3 point shooting? Deng played better as the season continued and his shooting was better in January than it was in November.

The idea that they were going to just crash and burn given more minutes is insanity. There is literally nothing that supports that hypothetical whatsoever. Maybe it would've happened, or maybe they would have continued to get better. From your post, I can tell you are not interested in facts that don't fit your narrative.

Maybe the reason DLO was invisible when Clarkson played point is because Clarkson is terrible at point guard? He had his 40 point game against the Cavs playing with JC, and he got 1 shot attempt iirc in the 4th quarter because JC got total tunnel vision.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject:

53.5% from 2P so far this season(44.7% last season). Not surprising as his mid range and floaters have been money. He's quicker and stronger as most who were optimistic on him predicted when his body starts to fill out. Averaging 6.8 FTA per game this season compared to 3.7 last season. Even if he gets 3P and FT% to his usual average of 35% and 75%, watch out.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Atkinson on Russell: "Knee contusion. We'll take it day by day. I think it's day to day." #Nets @NetsDaily

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject:

Nets tend to be more on the cautious side with their injuries as well, but hopefully DLO is back sooner rather than later
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
53.5% from 2P so far this season(44.7% last season). Not surprising as his mid range and floaters have been money. He's quicker and stronger as most who were optimistic on him predicted when his body starts to fill out. Averaging 6.8 FTA per game this season compared to 3.7 last season. Even if he gets 3P and FT% to his usual average of 35% and 75%, watch out.


He's learned his spots, and done a lot of work on his handles, so he can get to them fairly consistently. I think the three will come back to the mean.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:48 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
This is honestly ridiculous. The starters played 400 minutes -- that's not insignificant -- and they trended upwards as they played longer together. Nick's 3FG% was lower with the starters (iirc 39%) than it was overall. Unsustainably hot 3 point shooting? Deng played better as the season continued and his shooting was better in January than it was in November.

The idea that they were going to just crash and burn given more minutes is insanity. There is literally nothing that supports that hypothetical whatsoever. Maybe it would've happened, or maybe they would have continued to get better. From your post, I can tell you are not interested in facts that don't fit your narrative.


If the bolded were true, that lineup plays more than 14 minutes. That starting five did its job for the first six-eight minutes of each half, then was shuffled before fatigue combined with adjustments rendered Mozgov a liability. He stalls offenses on both ends. FTR, Deng declined further after Christmas, following a subpar first two months. Russell had a hot start, got hurt after 12 games, then cooled off until Lou was traded. The Moz/JR/Deng/Young lineup would've suffered playing alongside a slumping Russell, but they only appeared together in 16 of the next 30 games Russell played due to various injuries of their own.

Back to the hypothetical DLo/Zo/Ingram scenario, that lineup would constantly need Mozgov or Bogut as a rim protector to have any defensive success. The trio struggle to stay in front of their man when guarding the ball. Their defensive stances are average to below average, and none are laterally quick. They all struggle with screens and communicating.

Here's a narrative everybody should agree on: The typical superstar FA will pick the team that can sign another star who shares mutual interest in teaming up, over the team that would shoehorn him with guys he doesn't know or may not fit with.

If we have guys who play some defense, rebound, don't stop the ball, and we have enough cap space to pair two complementary stars, we are in better long-term shape - even if it means today's Lakers are a bit worse off without Russell.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject:

No other lineup played even half as many minutes on the Lakers that season. It was the top 20 in lineup minutes played in the entire league. Trying to call it into question based on sample size is a bit ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
tnell wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
His “value” was “low” anyways so maybe it might have been worthwhile to see them together for 2 months?


According to some on here they had to move him because he was a cancer. The front office, coaching staff, and teammates didn't like him according to experts on here.


Unfortunately that's the only one that mattered and they were right. Mozdeng. The Gift that Keeps on Giving.


Couldn't we have just waited until they expired and gone into the 2020 offseason with:

D'Angelo Russell (24)
Lonzo Ball (22)
Brandon Ingram (22)
Kyle Kuzma (24)

...and a crapload of cap space?


Magic is my favorite athlete all time but dude has never been a “patient” type of guy. He wants it now.


Then he shouldn't be running a team and lacks the temperment, foresight and patience necessary to be in charge of basketball decisions.


I don’t think it’s just Magic, it’s the other shareholders, sponsors, investors and major ticket holders. They don’t want to go through 3-4 more years of losing or mediocrity. They all want to see a winning product as soon as possible. It’s not just magic and Jeanine acting alone...this was a goals and vision move
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Honestly, the Nets don't have as bad of a roster as I thought. They're somehow hanging with Boston at home without Dlo...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
Honestly, the Nets don't have as bad of a roster as I thought. They're somehow hanging with Boston at home without Dlo...

Outside of RHJ and maybe Carroll, I don't think they currently have any real NBA starters on their roster (Levert and Allen can get there) but they have a solid bench with guys who fit Atkinson's system well.

They also were without Acy, Booker, and Allen against the Lakers, forcing them to play Zeller and RHJ at center against BroLo for long stretches. If healthy, the Nets can beat the Lakers in Brooklyn.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Honestly, the Nets don't have as bad of a roster as I thought. They're somehow hanging with Boston at home without Dlo...

Outside of RHJ and maybe Carroll, I don't think they currently have any real NBA starters on their roster (Levert and Allen can get there) but they have a solid bench with guys who fit Atkinson's system well.

They also were without Acy, Booker, and Allen against the Lakers, forcing them to play Zeller and RHJ at center against BroLo for long stretches. If healthy, the Nets can beat the Lakers in Brooklyn.


Yeah, they shoot the 3-ball very well as a team, and have excellent spacing and ball movement as a result. That'll keep them in a lot of games, with Dlo to close. Dinwiddie has been very nice for them off the bench as a lead guard, and they also have Crabbe who can be a borderline starter once his shot comes around. Oddly enough, they're almost the antithesis of us on offense.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
No other lineup played even half as many minutes on the Lakers that season. It was the top 20 in lineup minutes played[/b] in the entire league. Trying to call it into question based on sample size is a bit ridiculous.


Sample size really hasn't got anything to do with it, if I used that term, my apologies.

Despite us stinking last year, that was our best lineup. Why didn't it play together more, considering the other options? Don't remember that lineup closing out any games. I would guess it wasn't quick enough to play more than it did.

Last year's Moz/JR/Deng/Young/DLo lineup was brought up to assert a Lonzo/Russell pairing could've been successful defensively. I'd say it proves a dedicated rim protector is needed if the guards can't stay in front, and Mozgov and Bogut wouldn't have been good enough offensively and quick enough against smaller lineups to stay on the court even half the game. There was a JC/Lou/Nance/BI/Black lineup that had success in just under 9 minutes a game in 22 games, would like to see the Real Plus/Minus on that though.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject:

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but Kuzma was on the Mason & Ireland show today and he said there were 3 teams interested in him. I was curious which ones and thankfully Mason jumped in and asked that question. He replied, the Lakers, the Nets, & San Antonio. I know there was a theory that we could have gotten Kuz and kept DLO, but The Kuzma interview changes everything. If we never received that the 27th pick from the Nets, Kuz could very well be in Brooklyn right now.

He did mention that the Lakers were his first choice though. If you guys don't believe me then go download the Kuzma interview. Can't say it's fake news made up by the media if Kuzma himself is the one actually saying it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but Kuzma was on the Mason & Ireland show today and he said there were 3 teams interested in him. I was curious which ones and thankfully Mason jumped in and asked that question. He replied, the Lakers, the Nets, & San Antonio. I know there was a theory that we could have gotten Kuz and kept DLO, but The Kuzma interview changes everything. If we never received that the 27th pick from the Nets, Kuz could very well be in Brooklyn right now.

He did mention that the Lakers were his first choice though. If you guys don't believe me then go download the Kuzma interview. Can't say it's fake news made up by the media if Kuzma himself is the one actually saying it.


He did indeed work out for Brooklyn. Of course, they say they did have him there on their board...
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