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TheeChosenLonzo Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 216
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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my hope was aaron goardan would have fallen to #7. look at his stunning improvement in taken 3's and make 3's. dude is shooting above 50% on 3.
2.3 made -4.5 attempted = 51.9%
0.1 made -0.6 attempted = 25.0% Randle
if Randle had that improvement, this forum would have exploded.
Last edited by TheeChosenLonzo on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly. |
Agree with this. We tried to rebuild while still trying to bring in the crowds and shoot for the playoffs. It would have been better to cut bait and go all in with the youth movement. BUT at least we did get some good young talent and we have a good young coach to work with them.
No only are we behind philly in the rebuild, we are also way behind the hated Celtics. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly. |
We've been over this, but when do you trade Kobe? When the Lakers are making a playoff push with Howard and Nash and Kobe playing at an MVP level? After Kobe's blown out his achilles and is rehabbing during the final year of his deal? Do you not give him an extension and let him walk in free agency?
And how do you trade a broken down Kobe with his no trade clause? |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly. |
Lakers did the right thing by not trading Kobe. KG and Pierce were never anywhere near Kobe's level of impact/importance/generational dominance. They could have offered him less but that's it.
Lakers made the mistake of not trading Dwight and Pau when they had the chance. Pau's value dipped quickly so I guess that one was excusable but Dwight should have been traded. Hell, Brooklyn would have likely offered the same stuff Boston got for KG/PP... |
He was a Laker for less than a year, and would've been an UFA in a few months after trading him. I guess they should've known it wasn't going to work by that trade deadline, but they were beginning to put it together a bit and make their playoff push. Regardless, the value for a Dwight rental wasn't going to be anywhere near what Boston got.
The deal they should've made the moment Howard walked, though, was to trade Pau. So I'll invert your criticism. |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I was watching something on YouTube and I think Cris Carter was talking about Lonzos “benching” and mentioned that he was a defensive liability. It got me thinking about sports commentators, I believe that Lonzo is a plus defender right now. He has a DRTG of 101, which is pretty good..and it got me thinking about whether these commentators actually watch games and know about advanced stats. Many of them think that players like Wiggins and booker are good because they score points, which is very superficial.
Anyway, my question to the stat geeks. Lonzo has a +0.2 VORP. This blows me away, does this in fact mean that despite his shooting the rest of his game contributes more than the average NBA “replacement” at his position? Where does this “replacement” number come from? |
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trashcan Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Dec 2012 Posts: 543
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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No one in media actually watch games. Media people think dsj and donovan mitchell have been balling out of their minds when in reality they're just streaky rookies like how they should be.
people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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trashcan wrote: | No one in media actually watch games. Media people think dsj and donovan mitchell have been balling out of their minds when in reality they're just streaky rookies like how they should be.
people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now. |
And the stupid narrative that Lonzo can't defend. For that position, he's a very good defender which is shocking given both the bill of sale coming out of college and his age. "B-b-but I saw him get blown by". Yeah, it's called defending point guards in the modern NBA. He's beyond a net positive defensively. _________________ KOBE |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:58 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | trashcan wrote: | No one in media actually watch games. Media people think dsj and donovan mitchell have been balling out of their minds when in reality they're just streaky rookies like how they should be.
people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now. |
And the stupid narrative that Lonzo can't defend. For that position, he's a very good defender which is shocking given both the bill of sale coming out of college and his age. "B-b-but I saw him get blown by". Yeah, it's called defending point guards in the modern NBA. He's beyond a net positive defensively. |
With RPM showing unabashedly he's a good defender, I'd bank on the general narrative changing. |
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AC Green's V-Card Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Posts: 3063
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:41 am Post subject: |
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trashcan wrote: | people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now. |
I was skeptical of Josh Jackson immediately making the leap to elite defender, given Wiggins' struggles. It takes more than great athleticism to defend the perimeter at a high level. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26091
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:06 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | 2019 wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly. |
Lakers did the right thing by not trading Kobe. KG and Pierce were never anywhere near Kobe's level of impact/importance/generational dominance. They could have offered him less but that's it.
Lakers made the mistake of not trading Dwight and Pau when they had the chance. Pau's value dipped quickly so I guess that one was excusable but Dwight should have been traded. Hell, Brooklyn would have likely offered the same stuff Boston got for KG/PP... |
He was a Laker for less than a year, and would've been an UFA in a few months after trading him. I guess they should've known it wasn't going to work by that trade deadline, but they were beginning to put it together a bit and make their playoff push. Regardless, the value for a Dwight rental wasn't going to be anywhere near what Boston got.
The deal they should've made the moment Howard walked, though, was to trade Pau. So I'll invert your criticism. |
We would never have traded Kobe but the 3 year deal at the end, instead of starting over then, was a killer.
The "problem" per se with having a Kobe is not just the cost of his contract, but the roster decisions you will make as a result of having Kobe on your team also.
I'd argue we didn't trade Pau, in part, because we had Kobe rostered. Pau was his guy after all. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."
Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."
Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time. |
Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:53 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."
Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time. |
Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there. |
Yeah. They just basically took a shotgun approach and tried to amass as many young pieces possible. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:57 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."
Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time. |
Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there. |
Yeah. They just basically took a shotgun approach and tried to amass as many young pieces possible. |
I believe that was the mission statement of The Process. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:59 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."
Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time. |
Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there. |
Yeah. They just basically took a shotgun approach and tried to amass as many young pieces possible. |
I believe that was the mission statement of The Process. |
Absolutely.
And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.
Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:36 am Post subject: |
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And that's the key to the rebuilding process because you're not going to hit on all of your picks so you have to select and retain those pieces.
What's crazy about Covington is that he went undrafted, signed by Rockets and released.
Another "proof" that there is some luck in the draft as well since all teams passed on him multiple times. |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
Can you imagine if we'd drafted Porzingis!!!!!!!!!!!!! _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | And that's the key to the rebuilding process because you're not going to hit on all of your picks so you have to select and retain those pieces.
What's crazy about Covington is that he went undrafted, signed by Rockets and released.
Another "proof" that there is some luck in the draft as well since all teams passed on him multiple times. |
There are players who are late bloomers or went to small schools where they did not get much national exposure. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: |
Absolutely.
And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.
Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting). |
How about them Celtics, though? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Absolutely.
And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.
Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting). |
How about them Celtics, though? |
Buck Foston. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Absolutely.
And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.
Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting). |
How about them Celtics, though? |
Buck Foston. |
Well, the Celtics process has been far more impressive than the Sixers. There's a reason why Hinkie only looked up to Danny Ainge. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Absolutely.
And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.
Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting). |
How about them Celtics, though? |
Buck Foston. |
Well, the Celtics process has been far more impressive than the Sixers. There's a reason why Hinkie only looked up to Danny Ainge. |
I think the whole Billy King robbery really set this whole thing up. I mean without those picks, they don't have Brown, Kyrie, and Tatum, no? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25001
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core. |
Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. |
Can you imagine if we'd drafted Porzingis!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
LG would've melted down, LA folks woulda cry on the street, would been ugly |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Absolutely.
And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.
Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting). |
How about them Celtics, though? |
Buck Foston. |
Well, the Celtics process has been far more impressive than the Sixers. There's a reason why Hinkie only looked up to Danny Ainge. |
I think the whole Billy King robbery really set this whole thing up. I mean without those picks, they don't have Brown, Kyrie, and Tatum, no? |
True, but that robbery is exactly what Hinkie prided himself on. The Kings trade was almost nearly as brilliant - it put Colangelo in position to get his man Fultz and a likely top-10 pick this year or next. |
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