OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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AY2043
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I can see him being a league leader in shot blocks at the 1.

He's demonstrated that he's a lot more athletic than he was given credit for.


I disagree on the athleticism argument. Good athlete, not very good or great.

LOTS of IQ plays. Defensive switches, digging, "spacing" a driver to get a blocked shot, defensive rebounding, deflections, hiding/baiting for steals, etc.


He does elevate to an elite height for PGs(different from saying he's an elite leaper overall. His length is a factor). He's also an active/quick leaper.
The dunks in his highlight reel can't be consistently duplicated by 99% of PGs --- he can tip dunk anything, that alley oop where he dunked on the guys whole body at UCLA. His summer league dunks even, 99% of PGs can't do those.
Why his leaping isn't translating in traffic/drives is some different type of athletic weakness - connecting a sprint to a leap , it's almost like he's going too fast on his drives + not looking for a takeoff point but instead for a pass, then it's too late in his momentum to really elevate. And he's also got some well documented "bend/change of direction" athleticism issues that play a factor.
Of course he also has good timing and traces the ball well, too. But, DLo probably has the same exact length -- and their blocking capabilities aren't even in the same universe.
This dunk at 2:20 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgUUEa7NxMU went viral because you literally never ever ever ever see PG's do this, put their nuts on a dude's shoulder and also tamawahk it. And you never see PGs catch as many oops as he did.

In specific situations he's an elite leaper for his position, no doubt. Also a quick leaper

His form looks a million times smoother in that vid than it has all year..
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FanOfFour
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject:

If he just gets more efficient finishing in the paint that would have a huge impact. At that point, just becoming a decent jump-shooter makes him All-Star caliber.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
K2 wrote:
epak wrote:
Quote:
Ball and James, who was Ball's favorite player growing up, were the same age down to the day when they recorded their second career triple-doubles (20 years, 23 days).


Just meant to be


Lebron had 4 triple doubles, his first [edit] didn't come until January of his 2nd season. Think Lonzo could match that even before the end of this year. Magic had 7, which could fall too.


Actually, LeBron scored them in his 2nd year, he didn't score any in his rookie season. Just reminding he got straight from High School.


Good catch, LeBron's first triple double didn't materialize until Jan 19 2005 against the T'Wolves which was well into his 2nd year. Have made the correction. Thank you.
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AY2043
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/

A (bleep) triple double truther?? How pathetic does a sports "analyst" have to be?

The vast majority of assists are basic ball moving passes. And Ball's whole deal is to make the basic play at the right time (obviously he's still improving at that at this level, as he eschews shooting far too often) while other guys get tunnel vision and take harder shots than they may have had to if they just kept the ball and themselves moving. If the Nuggets leave Brook Lopez wide open behind the arc - then Ball should pass to Lopez! Why should he pursue a more difficult play - to impress some highlight truther who couldn't get past the second round interview for ESPN.com?

Lastly, if the kid can put up multiple "fake" triple doubles at the age of 20, then what happens when he's 25?

Itís ridiculous. If itís so easy to post a triple double, how come no 20 year old has done it since LeBron 13 years ago? Thatís really the only question that needs to be asked..
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/

A (bleep) triple double truther?? How pathetic does a sports "analyst" have to be?

The vast majority of assists are basic ball moving passes. And Ball's whole deal is to make the basic play at the right time (obviously he's still improving at that at this level, as he eschews shooting far too often) while other guys get tunnel vision and take harder shots than they may have had to if they just kept the ball and themselves moving. If the Nuggets leave Brook Lopez wide open behind the arc - then Ball should pass to Lopez! Why should he pursue a more difficult play - to impress some highlight truther who couldn't get past the second round interview for ESPN.com?

Lastly, if the kid can put up multiple "fake" triple doubles at the age of 20, then what happens when he's 25?


Don't feed the beast.
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come on pelican
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject:

KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/


Quote:
"I don't mean to be a buzz kill here, but triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down."


I almost spit out my coffee.
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LuciusAllen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject:

KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/

I wonder how this person envisions most high-assist games being achieved. There are always easy passes, and often a little stat padding by a home team. Couple that with his strawman argument that Lonzo will officially "turn a corner" with a single trip-dub (it's his development over the season that matters, not one game), and I'd have to say that yeah, this article is trash.

Personally, I don't really care about the actual attainment of a triple-double - it's really an arbitrary stat. An efficiently-earned 14-9-9 is not worse than 10-10-10. But whatever.

Zo brought great energy tonight. And that is reflected in his rebounding stat. When the shots aren't falling, bringing energy and fight in all other aspects are necessary. And he did that tonight.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject:

All they want is engagement, and you guys are giving it to them. This is how the cycle of terrible sports media continues.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject:

Exactly. Why click the link?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject:

come on pelican wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/


Quote:
"I don't mean to be a buzz kill here, but triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down."


I almost spit out my coffee.


Do not click the article and give him views.

Who is the author anyway? Not clicking this.
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject:

Hating Lonzo is going to become so cool that hipster, pro-small market writers and podcasters will do a 180 and actually appreciate him
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

lol Triple doubles were amazing last year when westbrook was actively chasing them but now that lonzo gets them in the flow of the game its watered down
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject:

KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/


I clicked on the article out of curiosity and all I can say is whoever made the headline was seeking too much attention. The article itself was not bad. It highlights a lot of what people downplayed about Westbrook's play over the years.
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thenextgreat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Take a stand experts. Five years from now Lonzo Ball will be?

A) Superstar
B) All Star
C) Role Player
D) Bust

No hopping on the fence.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject:

thenextgreat wrote:
Take a stand experts. Five years from now Lonzo Ball will be?

A) Superstar
B) All Star
C) Role Player
D) Bust

No hopping on the fence.


Five years? Heís been all of those things in the last 20 pages of this thread.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject:

https://nbamath.com/the-numbers-dont-lie-lonzo-ball-is-a-good-nba-defender/

Fun page about his defense.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject:

thenextgreat wrote:
Take a stand experts. Five years from now Lonzo Ball will be?

A) Superstar
B) All Star
C) Role Player
D) Bust

No hopping on the fence.


Hm. Hopefully an all star. But I don't care as long as he can call himself a champion.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I can see him being a league leader in shot blocks at the 1.

He's demonstrated that he's a lot more athletic than he was given credit for.


I disagree on the athleticism argument. Good athlete, not very good or great.

LOTS of IQ plays. Defensive switches, digging, "spacing" a driver to get a blocked shot, defensive rebounding, deflections, hiding/baiting for steals, etc.


He does elevate to an elite height for PGs(different from saying he's an elite leaper overall. His length is a factor). He's also an active/quick leaper.
The dunks in his highlight reel can't be consistently duplicated by 99% of PGs --- he can tip dunk anything, that alley oop where he dunked on the guys whole body at UCLA. His summer league dunks even, 99% of PGs can't do those.
Why his leaping isn't translating in traffic/drives is some different type of athletic weakness - connecting a sprint to a leap , it's almost like he's going too fast on his drives + not looking for a takeoff point but instead for a pass, then it's too late in his momentum to really elevate. And he's also got some well documented "bend/change of direction" athleticism issues that play a factor.
Of course he also has good timing and traces the ball well, too. But, DLo probably has the same exact length -- and their blocking capabilities aren't even in the same universe.
This dunk at 2:20 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgUUEa7NxMU went viral because you literally never ever ever ever see PG's do this, put their nuts on a dude's shoulder and also tamawahk it. And you never see PGs catch as many oops as he did.

In specific situations he's an elite leaper for his position, no doubt. Also a quick leaper

His form looks a million times smoother in that vid than it has all year..


KIROE's post perfectly puts into words what my eyes see. I wouldn't have been able to explain it in such detail with phrases like "connecting a sprint to a leap".

It's true his leaping seems to pop when he's going for rebounds and blocks or even when he jumps to pass. We don't see that same athleticism/verticality when he's attacking the rim with the ball. It's good to know he at least has the tools to become a good finisher. I suppose it'll just come down to skills training.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject:

thenextgreat wrote:
Take a stand experts. Five years from now Lonzo Ball will be?

A) Superstar
B) All Star
C) Role Player
D) Bust

No hopping on the fence.


I am hoping all star
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
come on pelican wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/


Quote:
"I don't mean to be a buzz kill here, but triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down."


I almost spit out my coffee.


Do not click the article and give him views.

Who is the author anyway? Not clicking this.


Brad Botkin...read it, and agree or disagree with his points. For CBS Sports, especially their NBA coverage, it's actually a decent article. He gives his view, and what he feels supports those views. Most of CBS's stuff is usually just aggregation.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:

Lonzo Ball Credits Advice From Brian Shaw For His 16 Rebounds Against The Nuggets

http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-lonzo-ball-credits-advice-from-brian-shaw-for-his-16-rebounds/2017/11/20/
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
come on pelican wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/


Quote:
"I don't mean to be a buzz kill here, but triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down."


I almost spit out my coffee.


Do not click the article and give him views.

Who is the author anyway? Not clicking this.


Brad Botkin...read it, and agree or disagree with his points. For CBS Sports, especially their NBA coverage, it's actually a decent article. He gives his view, and what he feels supports those views. Most of CBS's stuff is usually just aggregation.

Highlight truthering is reserved for bad LG posters.
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
come on pelican wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-balls-triple-double-vs-nuggets-could-not-have-been-less-impressive/


Quote:
"I don't mean to be a buzz kill here, but triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down."


I almost spit out my coffee.


Do not click the article and give him views.

Who is the author anyway? Not clicking this.


Brad Botkin...read it, and agree or disagree with his points. For CBS Sports, especially their NBA coverage, it's actually a decent article. He gives his view, and what he feels supports those views. Most of CBS's stuff is usually just aggregation.

Quote:
triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down.

Delusional
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject:

thenextgreat wrote:
Take a stand experts. Five years from now Lonzo Ball will be?

A) Superstar
B) All Star
C) Role Player
D) Bust

No hopping on the fence.

Borderline superstar.
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