Or that a triple double is a measure of an all round game, but a getting points on board is what most people think is all that matters in the current game?
The 10 is a double digit threshold, suggesting the impact through that particular aspect of the game. Whether its rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and of course scoring, a double digit impact is an indicator of contribution.
The only two things that matter in basketball are getting points on the board and keeping the other team from getting points on the board. Everything else is a side show. Assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks may contribute one way or another, or they may not. They are not ends to themselves. We lose sight of this sometimes.
His rebounding is easy to see, instead of breaking out down the court like many guards do he hangs in the paint when a shot goes up. I think that helps start fast breaks.
He does it on the offensive end as well.
he may get an offensive board on a long rebound, or just happens to be where the ball bounces....but I doubt he is crashing the offensive boards....I am not sure any NBA teams still send their guards to get offensive rebounds under the basket.....it would likely kill your transition defense.
He actually does crash the boards. He had a tip back to Lopez when he couldn't secured it and he got a airball from kcp dropped right into his hands "under the basket like a big man". If you zero on him and watch him, he is always trying to do something to help the team. Pass to someone open,get open or even crash the boards.
so your telling me that Luke has him crashing the offensive boards? I do not really pay attention to that, but your telling me that is what is happening?
Don't know if the coaching staff is having him but he is crashing them.
so your telling me that Luke has him crashing the offensive boards? I do not really pay attention to that, but your telling me that is what is happening?
Nope. He doesn't crash the board in that way where it affects the transition defense. But if he's going through the lane and his teammate shoots at that time, he's quick to try to box his man. When he's above the 3 point line, he's always quick to run back on defense.
Just scroll through the 1st quarter video:
You'll see him do this. Also you'll note he does crash the board from the 3 point line when it's the last shot of the quarter. Smarts.
Last edited by epak on Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Or that a triple double is a measure of an all round game, but a getting points on board is what most people think is all that matters in the current game?
The 10 is a double digit threshold, suggesting the impact through that particular aspect of the game. Whether its rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and of course scoring, a double digit impact is an indicator of contribution.
The only two things that matter in basketball are getting points on the board and keeping the other team from getting points on the board. Everything else is a side show. Assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks may contribute one way or another, or they may not. They are not ends to themselves. We lose sight of this sometimes.
How do you explain how only elite players seem to get triple doubles, if it is such a random stat?
Only players to get triple doubles this season
Russell Westbrook, Ben Simmons, Lebron James, James Harden, Demarcus Cousins, Kyle Lowry, and Lonzo Ball
If it were meaningless, then you'd find random players popping up on the list all the time, but this is almost never the case.
You'd think a meaningless stat would produce a motley collection of starters but only the cream seems to be on this list. If Lonzo turned out a bust he would be an outlier with a capital O
Or that a triple double is a measure of an all round game, but a getting points on board is what most people think is all that matters in the current game?
The 10 is a double digit threshold, suggesting the impact through that particular aspect of the game. Whether its rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and of course scoring, a double digit impact is an indicator of contribution.
The only two things that matter in basketball are getting points on the board and keeping the other team from getting points on the board. Everything else is a side show. Assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks may contribute one way or another, or they may not. They are not ends to themselves. We lose sight of this sometimes.
How do you explain how only elite players seem to get triple doubles, if it is such a random stat?
Only players to get triple doubles this season
Russell Westbrook, Ben Simmons, Lebron James, James Harden, Demarcus Cousins, Kyle Lowry, and Lonzo Ball
If it were meaningless, then you'd find random players popping up on the list all the time, but this is almost never the case.
You'd think a meaningless stat would produce a motley collection of starters but only the cream seems to be on this list. If Lonzo turned out a bust he would be an outlier with a capital O
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:54 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
As you note, that is not true, they were easier to get during the Big O's days when pace was even faster and the talent pool was far, far shallower. And even in a slower post-ABA merger NBA that bottomed out in possessions per game in the 90s, stars would play more minutes per game where 40 mins was the median rather than a heavy night (as it was for Ball last night).
Regarding your first point, clearly many posters here consumed information that did not confirm their preferred beliefs in reading Botkin's piece and cogently took it to task for its flaws, while your favorite Twitter analyst, Cranjis, definitively disproved Botkin's claims about contested rebounds with Synegy data. Just because you (undeservedly) feel like LG's Dr. Stockmann doesn't mean you have to project your own frustration and Lonzo-stan persecution complex onto every two bit piece of clickbait hackery trying to buck a straw man groupthink for page views.
Aso, I love you, man, but why don't you use "you're?" Are you saving on typing time?
BVH...not even responding to this crap....you tell me I am wrong, then rewrite a summary of what I stated....then the second paragraph.....making it personal and touching on things we have discussed in private in the past....ok man. Sure you got some LG'ers to google Stockmann....so there is that.
Tom Haberstroh @tomhaberstroh 4h4 hours ago
In Oct, Lakers 24.8 points per 100 possessions WORSE with Lonzo on the floor vs. him on bench. Very bad. In Nov? Lakers are 9.9 points BETTER with him on the floor. Plot twist.
Or that a triple double is a measure of an all round game, but a getting points on board is what most people think is all that matters in the current game?
The 10 is a double digit threshold, suggesting the impact through that particular aspect of the game. Whether its rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and of course scoring, a double digit impact is an indicator of contribution.
The only two things that matter in basketball are getting points on the board and keeping the other team from getting points on the board. Everything else is a side show. Assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks may contribute one way or another, or they may not. They are not ends to themselves. We lose sight of this sometimes.
Is this like saying you'll always prefer the guy who scores 1 pt vs the guy who gets 20 rebounds?
Also, isn't an assist by definition a made bucket?
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
As you note, that is not true, they were easier to get during the Big O's days when pace was even faster and the talent pool was far, far shallower. And even in a slower post-ABA merger NBA that bottomed out in possessions per game in the 90s, stars would play more minutes per game where 40 mins was the median rather than a heavy night (as it was for Ball last night).
Regarding your first point, clearly many posters here consumed information that did not confirm their preferred beliefs in reading Botkin's piece and cogently took it to task for its flaws, while your favorite Twitter analyst, Cranjis, definitively disproved Botkin's claims about contested rebounds with Synegy data. Just because you (undeservedly) feel like LG's Dr. Stockmann doesn't mean you have to project your own frustration and Lonzo-stan persecution complex onto every two bit piece of clickbait hackery trying to buck a straw man groupthink for page views.
Aso, I love you, man, but why don't you use "you're?" Are you saving on typing time?
BVH...not even responding to this crap....you tell me I am wrong, then rewrite a summary of what I stated....then the second paragraph.....making it personal and touching on things we have discussed in private in the past....ok man. Sure you got some LG'ers to google Stockmann....so there is that.
I think everyone should read Ibsen. But I'll drop it.
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:01 am Post subject:
adkindo wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
come on pelican wrote:
KungPau wrote:
Speaking of haters, there's this stupid article. When has anyone ever had an article dedicated to debunking the validity of their triple double? Unbelievable.
"I don't mean to be a buzz kill here, but triple-doubles are becoming a little watered down."
I almost spit out my coffee.
Do not click the article and give him views.
Who is the author anyway? Not clicking this.
Brad Botkin...read it, and agree or disagree with his points. For CBS Sports, especially their NBA coverage, it's actually a decent article. He gives his view, and what he feels supports those views. Most of CBS's stuff is usually just aggregation.
The article is fine. The headline and subject is 100% click bait. Pick a random Westbrook triple double from last year and you'll be able to make the same criticisms. On top of that you might also see his bigs backing off the boards and allowing Westy to get a few gimmie boards. It's not just these two either. The author seems to have a problem with how assists are given out in the NBA and that's perfectly fine. Packaging this criticism as "Meh…Lonzo still isn't that good" is grade A good old fashioned click bait.
Or that a triple double is a measure of an all round game, but a getting points on board is what most people think is all that matters in the current game?
The 10 is a double digit threshold, suggesting the impact through that particular aspect of the game. Whether its rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and of course scoring, a double digit impact is an indicator of contribution.
The only two things that matter in basketball are getting points on the board and keeping the other team from getting points on the board. Everything else is a side show. Assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks may contribute one way or another, or they may not. They are not ends to themselves. We lose sight of this sometimes.
Got to disagree with that. On a individual basis, looks great when you score. But team play is most important. Just look at Wilt. He scored a godzillion points and was super dominant on defense, but couldn't didn't win that many championship. Better teams won.
Tom Haberstroh @tomhaberstroh 4h4 hours ago
In Oct, Lakers 24.8 points per 100 possessions WORSE with Lonzo on the floor vs. him on bench. Very bad. In Nov? Lakers are 9.9 points BETTER with him on the floor. Plot twist.
That's good to know.
Durant was league worst in plus minus during his first 2 years.
Or that a triple double is a measure of an all round game, but a getting points on board is what most people think is all that matters in the current game?
The 10 is a double digit threshold, suggesting the impact through that particular aspect of the game. Whether its rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and of course scoring, a double digit impact is an indicator of contribution.
The only two things that matter in basketball are getting points on the board and keeping the other team from getting points on the board. Everything else is a side show. Assists, rebounds, steals, and blocks may contribute one way or another, or they may not. They are not ends to themselves. We lose sight of this sometimes.
How do you explain how only elite players seem to get triple doubles, if it is such a random stat?
Only players to get triple doubles this season
Russell Westbrook, Ben Simmons, Lebron James, James Harden, Demarcus Cousins, Kyle Lowry, and Lonzo Ball
If it were meaningless, then you'd find random players popping up on the list all the time, but this is almost never the case.
You'd think a meaningless stat would produce a motley collection of starters but only the cream seems to be on this list. If Lonzo turned out a bust he would be an outlier with a capital O
For a guy who always tries to espouse basketball "knowledge" for our erudition- saying assists may not lead to points is almost trump like.
In Lonzo's case specifically, I can even point to his rebounding leading to said "scoring assists" because after he boards, he likes to fire a pass up court.
Then there's the whole "putback" after a missed shot which is LITERALLY A REBOUND THAT LEADS TO POINTS.
I mean, I just can't. _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
y'all are misinterpreting Aeneas Hunter's post entirely.
other stats are important only insomuch as they affect your team's ability to put points on the board or deny the other team from putting points on the board. a rebound isn't valuable in and of itself, it's valuable because it prevents the other team from another shot attempt (DReb) or it gives your team another shot attempt (OReb). An assist is valuable if it puts your teammate in an advantageous situation to be able to score better. Moving the ball is important because it forces the defense to move and rotate and cover more ground, which makes it easier to attack - just passing the ball statically back and forth doesn't actually achieve anything, the pass has to create opportunity.
It's easy to forget but at the end of the day, the single most important thing to win games is to score more than the other team. all the stats outside of PPG are important because they help put your team in a position to be more likely to score more than the other team, but, just to use an extreme hypothetical, even if your team has 100 open layups and misses them all, you will lose to the team that has 1 triple teamed jumpshot that went in. _________________ substance over style
Last edited by 44TheLogo on Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Tom Haberstroh @tomhaberstroh 4h4 hours ago
In Oct, Lakers 24.8 points per 100 possessions WORSE with Lonzo on the floor vs. him on bench. Very bad. In Nov? Lakers are 9.9 points BETTER with him on the floor. Plot twist.
That's good to know.
Nance injury. Brings Kuzma into the lineup, and also mixes lineups. Clarkson's playmaking has regressed too, leaving Zo as only person on the team that can coordinate an offense coherently.
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