Why is San Antonio considered a small market but Boston and DC are not?

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27890
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Why is San Antonio considered a small market but Boston and DC are not?

San Antonio is the 7th largest city in the US whereas DC is 21st and Boston is 22nd. Nobody ever refers to Boston and DC as small markets.

I even hear people refer to Houston, the 4th largest city in the US, as a small market too.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrbEjppnd4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Reply with quote
Eindhoven
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1048
Location: Zürich

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:56 am    Post subject:

It's not just about the size of the city, but the metropolitan area. DC is #6, Boston is #10 and San Antonio is #24.

About Houston, it's not a small market by any angle.

1 New York-Newark-Jersey City 20,153,634
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim 13,310,447
3 Chicago-Naperville-Elgin 9,512,999
4 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington 7,233,323
5 Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land 6,772,470
6 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria 6,131,977
7 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington 6,070,500
8 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach 6,066,387
9 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell 5,789,700
10 Boston-Cambridge-Newton 4,794,447
11 San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward 4,679,166
12 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale 4,661,537
13 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario 4,527,837 (for this purpose, could be added to LA)
14 Detroit-Warren-Dearborn 4,297,617
15 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue 3,798,902
16 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington 3,551,036
17 San Diego-Carlsbad 3,317,749
18 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater 3,032,171
19 Denver-Aurora-Lakewood 2,853,077
20 St. Louis 2,807,002
21 Baltimore-Columbia-Towson 2,798,886
22 Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia 2,474,314
23 Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford 2,441,257
24 San Antonio-New Braunfels 2,429,609
25 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro 2,424,955
_________________
It's Ball Time!

No Melo - No Rose - No Rondo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 19390

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject:

You can get a similar result by looking at TV markets. San Antonio is 31st.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 79263
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
You can get a similar result by looking at TV markets. San Antonio is 31st.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market


And that is a key component.
_________________
Tolerance is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
adkindo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 15823
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
You can get a similar result by looking at TV markets. San Antonio is 31st.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market


And that is a key component.


yeah, in regards to sports and entertainment.....it is all about the TV market. City lines can be redrawn to manipulate population count, but TV market is pretty accurate/consistent.

For example...Jacksonville is considered the largest city in Florida by population....almost twice that of Miami. If anyone has been to Jacksonville, they know it is actually a fairly small city from the "eye test", while Miami actually appears to be a major US city. Years ago, the City of Jacksonville and Duval County merged for government service efficiencies, etc....so now Jacksonville city limits extends throughout the entirety of Duval County, and Jacksonville is largest city by area in the contiguous United States.
_________________
"Lonzo Ball is the headline, Kyle Kuzma is the STORY!" Jalen Rose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27890
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

That makes sense. I guess it's not just Boston that supports the Celtics, but likely all of New England as well. (Since I don't think New England has any other NBA teams.) It never occurred to me that people in Connecticut and Rhode Island are likely also Celtics fans until just now. Just never thought about it.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrbEjppnd4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 25289

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
That makes sense. I guess it's not just Boston that supports the Celtics, but likely all of New England as well. (Since I don't think New England has any other NBA teams.) It never occurred to me that people in Connecticut and Rhode Island are likely also Celtics fans until just now. Just never thought about it.


If you live in Rhode Island, you might be closer to the Celtics arena than someone who lives in San Bernadino is to Staples.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27890
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
That makes sense. I guess it's not just Boston that supports the Celtics, but likely all of New England as well. (Since I don't think New England has any other NBA teams.) It never occurred to me that people in Connecticut and Rhode Island are likely also Celtics fans until just now. Just never thought about it.


If you live in Rhode Island, you might be closer to the Celtics arena than someone who lives in San Bernadino is to Staples.


Yeah. I think San Antonio in particular is affected by the fact that there are two other major NBA teams in the same state. If the Spurs were the only team in Texas then I guess it would be considered a big market team.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrbEjppnd4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Reply with quote
Shecky
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 03 Jul 2016
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject:

The actual city of Boston is smaller than Disney World.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 27890
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject:

Shecky wrote:
The actual city of Boston is smaller than Disney World.


Source?
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrbEjppnd4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Reply with quote
Rek
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1714
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Shecky wrote:
The actual city of Boston is smaller than Disney World.


Source?

Have you ever been to Boston? Ever walked The Freedom Trail? The downtown area is miniscule compared to any other major city in the country. You wan walk the entire area in less than a day. He doesn't need a source if he's ever been.

To answer your OP - economics and TV market. Both are much healthier than the likes of San Antonio. I would never pay their prices for real estate. But, Boston's economy has been booming for many years with no signs of dying off any time soon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 19390

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
That makes sense. I guess it's not just Boston that supports the Celtics, but likely all of New England as well. (Since I don't think New England has any other NBA teams.) It never occurred to me that people in Connecticut and Rhode Island are likely also Celtics fans until just now. Just never thought about it.


If you live in Rhode Island, you might be closer to the Celtics arena than someone who lives in San Bernadino is to Staples.


Yeah. I think San Antonio in particular is affected by the fact that there are two other major NBA teams in the same state. If the Spurs were the only team in Texas then I guess it would be considered a big market team.


Not really. If the Kings were the only team in California, they would still be a small market team. Physical distance matters. When I was a kid in Dallas, there was a baseball team in Houston, but most of the baseball fans followed the Yankees or the Cardinals. After the Chaparrals packed up and moved to San Antonio, people like me became fans of the Lakers or some other team.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Don Draper
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 25180
Location: RIP DLO

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject:

Rek wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Shecky wrote:
The actual city of Boston is smaller than Disney World.


Source?

Have you ever been to Boston? Ever walked The Freedom Trail? The downtown area is miniscule compared to any other major city in the country. You wan walk the entire area in less than a day. He doesn't need a source if he's ever been.

To answer your OP - economics and TV market. Both are much healthier than the likes of San Antonio. I would never pay their prices for real estate. But, Boston's economy has been booming for many years with no signs of dying off any time soon.


I've been to Boston several times and while it's very walkable I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around it being smaller than Disney World. Just the drive from Logan to my hotel seems to negate that idea. Unless you just mean downtown Boston by itself (not including the stuff across the bridge or closer to Fenway) in which case yeah it probably is smaller.
_________________
Lonzo Ball Projected 2017-18 Stats: 16pts/8asts/5rebs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
slavavov
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3729
Location: Santa Monica

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject:

Is Miami considered a big market? The city itself has less than 500,000 people, but the Miami metro area has ten times as many people, and Miami itself has one of the biggest concentrations of big corporations and large banks in the world.
_________________
"Lindsay Hunter is starting to make Devean George look like John Stockton" - Bill Walton, Game 4 of the 2002 WCFs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 19127

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Is Miami considered a big market? The city itself has less than 500,000 people, but the Miami metro area has ten times as many people, and Miami itself has one of the biggest concentrations of big corporations and large banks in the world.


Here’s a rough guide to the top media markets. Miami is sort of ... middle tier.

https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 79263
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject:

San Antonio ranks 25th of the thirty NBA teams in TV market size.
_________________
Tolerance is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Rek
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1714
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:13 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Rek wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Shecky wrote:
The actual city of Boston is smaller than Disney World.


Source?

Have you ever been to Boston? Ever walked The Freedom Trail? The downtown area is miniscule compared to any other major city in the country. You wan walk the entire area in less than a day. He doesn't need a source if he's ever been.

To answer your OP - economics and TV market. Both are much healthier than the likes of San Antonio. I would never pay their prices for real estate. But, Boston's economy has been booming for many years with no signs of dying off any time soon.


I've been to Boston several times and while it's very walkable I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around it being smaller than Disney World. Just the drive from Logan to my hotel seems to negate that idea. Unless you just mean downtown Boston by itself (not including the stuff across the bridge or closer to Fenway) in which case yeah it probably is smaller.

Now you have me second guessing myself. I was thinking this only referred to the downtown area - which I think is pretty safe to say is smaller than DW. But, when I look up maps for Boston city limits, I get both versions for just that area as well as ones that cover a lot more ground. I'll back off to neutral on this one since I dunno for sure which was intended..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 19390

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Is Miami considered a big market? The city itself has less than 500,000 people, but the Miami metro area has ten times as many people, and Miami itself has one of the biggest concentrations of big corporations and large banks in the world.


In some respects, Miami punches above its weight class because of its demographics. There is a lot of wealth there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 79263
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject:

Rek wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Rek wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Shecky wrote:
The actual city of Boston is smaller than Disney World.


Source?

Have you ever been to Boston? Ever walked The Freedom Trail? The downtown area is miniscule compared to any other major city in the country. You wan walk the entire area in less than a day. He doesn't need a source if he's ever been.

To answer your OP - economics and TV market. Both are much healthier than the likes of San Antonio. I would never pay their prices for real estate. But, Boston's economy has been booming for many years with no signs of dying off any time soon.


I've been to Boston several times and while it's very walkable I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around it being smaller than Disney World. Just the drive from Logan to my hotel seems to negate that idea. Unless you just mean downtown Boston by itself (not including the stuff across the bridge or closer to Fenway) in which case yeah it probably is smaller.

Now you have me second guessing myself. I was thinking this only referred to the downtown area - which I think is pretty safe to say is smaller than DW. But, when I look up maps for Boston city limits, I get both versions for just that area as well as ones that cover a lot more ground. I'll back off to neutral on this one since I dunno for sure which was intended..


Boston has an area of 89.63 square miles, while Disney world is approximately forty, including the nature preserve.
_________________
Tolerance is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LarryCoon
Site Staff
Site Staff


Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 9859

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:

Per a quick google search, Boston is 89.63 square miles, Disney world is 40 square miles.

Here are the designated market area TV household figures the league used in 2011 when implementing the luxury tax plan (in millions of households):

YJN 7.39
NYK 7.39
LAC 5.57
LAL 5.57
CHI 3.49
PHI 2.99
TOR 2.71
DAL 2.57
GSW 2.51
BOS 2.38
WAS 2.36
ATL 2.29
HOU 2.19
DET 1.84
PHO 1.81
MIN 1.72
MIA 1.58
DEN 1.55
CLE 1.51
ORL 1.47
SAC 1.39
POR 1.19
CHA 1.14
IND 1.11
UTA 0.93
MIL 0.91
SAN 0.88
OKC 0.71
MEM 0.67
NOR 0.64
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
adkindo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 15823
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject:

not related....but an interesting fact related to sports and population.....on Saturday's when WVU fills up Mountaineer Field / Milan Puskar Stadium (60,000)...the stadium itself could be considered the largest city in the state of WV! No city within state lines exceeds a population of 50,000.
_________________
"Lonzo Ball is the headline, Kyle Kuzma is the STORY!" Jalen Rose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 28753

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
not related....but an interesting fact related to sports and population.....on Saturday's when WVU fills up Mountaineer Field / Milan Puskar Stadium (60,000)...the stadium itself could be considered the largest city in the state of WV! No city within state lines exceeds a population of 50,000.


Thats pretty much the nature of college football....
I'm sure you can find a lot of other big time college football schools which gathers most of the population in-state and treats college football like religion. Most of these places don't have any pro sports teams to root for so college football is a way of life.
The closest pro sports team I can think of that captures that level of fanaticism is the Green Bay Packers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB