OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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OCWA
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Daphanabe wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Ball, when on, is transformative.


I personally have never saw anything in college or with the Lakers that supports this statement. I am wrong as much as the next guy, but I have always felt these statements were hyperbole.


Phoenix game, Bucks game, GSW spurt before he hit his head, etc. Not sure how you could watch those and not see that.


Yeah, there were many stretches where he totally dominated UCLA games. He also transformed them from a 500 team into a top 10 team. He was also dominating Summer league games. These things really happened and people were watching him do it, hence the expectations. Some people act like this is all a mass delusion planted in our minds by Lavar Ball.

Will he be able to dominate in the NBA? We don't know yet. There have been flashes though. The way he dominated Summer League games probably got all of our expectations a little out of whack.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject:

Maybe the scheme should call for him to attack the defense more and drive to the basket a bit?
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Worthy42
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject:

Seems like he's doing what Luke wants. Everyone clamoring about how he needs to attack more. Seems like DLO last year was in the same boat trying to carry out Luke's 'game plan' and people moaned about how he needs to attack more... he's attacking plenty in Brooklyn (when he's healthy).
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2745234-lavar-ball-luke-walton-have-vastly-different-approaches-to-developing-youth

Quote:
"Lonzo's been away from me too long, LaVar Ball said. “I see tendencies in his game. They're trying to baby him a little bit. They're soft. They don't know how to coach my son. I know how to coach him," Ball continued. "I tell him to go get the victory. Stop messing around."

Does LaVar Ball have a problem with coach Luke Walton?

"No, but I have a problem with losing," Ball responded.


Obviously LaVar doesn’t believe Luke knows how to coach Lonzo. Calling Luke and the coaching staff soft is hilarious!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:07 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2745234-lavar-ball-luke-walton-have-vastly-different-approaches-to-developing-youth

Quote:
"Lonzo's been away from me too long, LaVar Ball said. “I see tendencies in his game. They're trying to baby him a little bit. They're soft. They don't know how to coach my son. I know how to coach him," Ball continued. "I tell him to go get the victory. Stop messing around."

Does LaVar Ball have a problem with coach Luke Walton?

"No, but I have a problem with losing," Ball responded.


Obviously LaVar doesn’t believe Luke knows how to coach Lonzo. Calling Luke and the coaching staff soft is hilarious!


There's a whole thread about this article, started by the author himself.

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=183392
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject:

I blame Lavar for Lonzo's bad shooting form. A competent father would have fixed Lonzo's ugly shooting form since childhood. So far, his eldest son seems to be a bust in the NBA. His second eldest son got caught stealing in China. What has he accomplished really. His Big Bust Brand have only his sons as reps. Now he's running his mouth about how Luke should coach his son. Based on the "success" of his sons, I don't think he's in any position to offer any advice to anyone.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
I blame Lavar for Lonzo's bad shooting form. A competent father would have fixed Lonzo's ugly shooting form since childhood. So far, his eldest son seems to be a bust in the NBA. His second eldest son got caught stealing in China. What has he accomplished really. His Big Bust Brand have only his sons as reps. Now he's running his mouth about how Luke should coach his son. Based on the "success" of his sons, I don't think he's in any position to offer any advice to anyone.


As if he had any clue on how to shoot. He talks a lot, and loud, and everyone assumes he know about the sport. All he did was grant his kids infinite time and possessions an hope quantity would translate to quality. Maybe so with hard work weightlifting but you cannot inject talent.

LiAngello has a low release, yet a softer touch. LaMelo seems to shoot a bit better, in what concerns mechanics. Dime a dozen in any playground, anyway.

About the stealing, that is nothing compared to the average NBA baskteball youth criminal record. S-Jax admitted on TV to deal drugs. How many were part of gangs?

It all goes back to a reality show type of exposure. The basketball Kardashians.

The Ball(s) are rich, don't feel sorry for them. It is sad for the Lakers, and all the fans.
Dennis Rodman, when a Spur, was a major problem, Madonna courtside, the marriage to Carmen Electra (both on drugs, surely), etc. Point is he could play.

Watch out: Lavar is working on a blockbuster book like :"inside the Lakers: the truth about Magic crewing Lonzo"
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Ball, when on, is transformative.


I personally have never saw anything in college or with the Lakers that supports this statement. I am wrong as much as the next guy, but I have always felt these statements were hyperbole.


I'm not even sure what it means. If the summer league performance was "transformative," there are probably 40-50 transformative players in the NBA. Maybe a lot more than that.

When I read these posts talking about how Lonzo Ball is a "transformative" player with "generational" passing ability and court vision, I feel like I'm listening to a cheesy car commercial. Cue Ricardo Montalban.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

Let’s see if Lonzo shows any life against Philly who came into staples and made t a point to embarrass him and he shrunk under the lights
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Ball, when on, is transformative.


I personally have never saw anything in college or with the Lakers that supports this statement. I am wrong as much as the next guy, but I have always felt these statements were hyperbole.


I'm not even sure what it means. If the summer league performance was "transformative," there are probably 40-50 transformative players in the NBA. Maybe a lot more than that.

When I read these posts talking about how Lonzo Ball is a "transformative" player with "generational" passing ability and court vision, I feel like I'm listening to a cheesy car commercial. Cue Ricardo Montalban.

Truth, again.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 am    Post subject:

Ball is used to running high octane offenses with plenty of shooters.

Give the kid what he needs, what he’s used to.

Lonzo Ball is an elite role player akin to Draymond Green, Jason Kidd, Iguodala, Michael Cooper, or Brian Shaw ...

... but he’s still elite.

He’ll never average 17 points, but he’s a unique talent nonetheless, the type of player who demonstratively contributes to winning.

So, give him a high octane shooting squad and let him be exalted, even if that means he’s only averaging twelve and a half points a game in the process.

Ball will one day be respected for being the unselfish, low-usage, all-around player that he is, draft position be damned.
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lakersfan85
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Ball is used to running high octane offenses with plenty of shooters.

Give the kid what he needs, what he’s used to.

Lonzo Ball is an elite role player akin to Draymond Green, Jason Kidd, Iguodala, Michael Cooper, or Brian Shaw ...

... but he’s still elite.

He’ll never average 17 points, but he’s a unique talent nonetheless, the type of player who demonstratively contributes to winning.

So, give him a high octane shooting squad and let him be exalted, even if that means he’s only averaging twelve and a half points a game in the process.

Ball will one day be respected for being the unselfish, low-usage, all-around player that he is, draft position be damned.


it's not unselfish to be such a poor shooter that you team is constantly compensating for you and the offense lanes are cut down because you can't shoot.

and to be honest, why does he command a team built around him. what has he shown so far that makes him worth that? Lakers could have just trades for Rubio a few years back and had the same thing...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Ball, when on, is transformative.


I personally have never saw anything in college or with the Lakers that supports this statement. I am wrong as much as the next guy, but I have always felt these statements were hyperbole.


I'm not even sure what it means. If the summer league performance was "transformative," there are probably 40-50 transformative players in the NBA. Maybe a lot more than that.

When I read these posts talking about how Lonzo Ball is a "transformative" player with "generational" passing ability and court vision, I feel like I'm listening to a cheesy car commercial. Cue Ricardo Montalban.



Yeah, I don't really see him as being "transformative," "transcendent," "generational" or any of the other overblown descriptions of his game. When people throw words around like that, I picture a Jordan/Magic/Kobe/Lebron level talent. He's not anywhere near that. He has All-Star potential, but only if he can find a way to get mentally tougher.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject:

If Lonzo can be 75% of what prime JKidd was I'll be thrilled.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject:

lakersfan85 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Ball is used to running high octane offenses with plenty of shooters.

Give the kid what he needs, what he’s used to.

Lonzo Ball is an elite role player akin to Draymond Green, Jason Kidd, Iguodala, Michael Cooper, or Brian Shaw ...

... but he’s still elite.

He’ll never average 17 points, but he’s a unique talent nonetheless, the type of player who demonstratively contributes to winning.

So, give him a high octane shooting squad and let him be exalted, even if that means he’s only averaging twelve and a half points a game in the process.

Ball will one day be respected for being the unselfish, low-usage, all-around player that he is, draft position be damned.


it's not unselfish to be such a poor shooter that you team is constantly compensating for you and the offense lanes are cut down because you can't shoot.

and to be honest, why does he command a team built around him. what has he shown so far that makes him worth that? Lakers could have just trades for Rubio a few years back and had the same thing...

You are really expanding the definition of unselfish, huh?

And just because you put guys in positions to succeed, does NOT mean you’re “building around him”. He’s a role payer. A very good role player.

Use him and use him right because it benefits you that his best game is exalted.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If Lonzo can be 75% of what prime JKidd was I'll be thrilled.


I’ll take 75% of Kidd’s aggression as a start and by that I don’t mean his shot...I mean his approach and style of play.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject:

How does Lonzo ever become better than Ricky Rubio now? What is his upside anyway? Whats there to be patient for?
People talking about Kidd but Kidd isnt playing anymore. Kidd played in an era when shooting wasnt as necessary.
Its sort of like comparing Randle to Horace Grant for the PF position. Doesnt work like that, PF position has changed and its hard to be a PF these days if you dont shoot 3's...thats PF...2nd biggest position. And Randle really cant play it because he's not a great shooter.
Yet PG the smallest position you think can get by without shooting? Forget it.. Its shooting or bust for Lonzo. Likely somewhere in between. Likely a decent bench player in a few years.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
How does Lonzo ever become better than Ricky Rubio now? What is his upside anyway? Whats there to be patient for?
People talking about Kidd but Kidd isnt playing anymore. Kidd played in an era when shooting wasnt as necessary.
Its sort of like comparing Randle to Horace Grant for the PF position. Doesnt work like that, PF position has changed and its hard to be a PF these days if you dont shoot 3's...thats PF...2nd biggest position. And Randle really cant play it because he's not a great shooter.
Yet PG the smallest position you think can get by without shooting? Forget it.. Its shooting or bust for Lonzo. Likely somewhere in between. Likely a decent bench player in a few years.

He is a shooter though.

Right now he sucks balls, but he has a history of being able to shoot.

I trust his ability to become a 40% three point shooter. Guys like Rubio, I don’t.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If Lonzo can be 75% of what prime JKidd was I'll be thrilled.


He has the talent to easily do that imo. But does he have the mental toughness to do it? That remains to be seen.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

You know how D'Antoni makes point guards look better than they are? Walton undoubtedly makes them look worse than they are.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2745234-lavar-ball-luke-walton-have-vastly-different-approaches-to-developing-youth

Quote:
"Lonzo's been away from me too long, LaVar Ball said. “I see tendencies in his game. They're trying to baby him a little bit. They're soft. They don't know how to coach my son. I know how to coach him," Ball continued. "I tell him to go get the victory. Stop messing around."

Does LaVar Ball have a problem with coach Luke Walton?

"No, but I have a problem with losing," Ball responded.


Obviously LaVar doesn’t believe Luke knows how to coach Lonzo. Calling Luke and the coaching staff soft is hilarious!


Oh snap! LaVar and Magic are conspiring to bring back Byron!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
You know how D'Antoni makes point guards look better than they are? Walton undoubtedly makes them look worse than they are.


He's not a PG in the manner that we're trying to use him and never has been. If we wanted a high ball screen PG we should've just drafted DSJ. It's astonishing to me that they watched him play at UCLA and determined that this is how he should be used.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
I blame Lavar for Lonzo's bad shooting form. A competent father would have fixed Lonzo's ugly shooting form since childhood. So far, his eldest son seems to be a bust in the NBA. His second eldest son got caught stealing in China. What has he accomplished really. His Big Bust Brand have only his sons as reps. Now he's running his mouth about how Luke should coach his son. Based on the "success" of his sons, I don't think he's in any position to offer any advice to anyone.


Obviously the shooting did not need to be fixed as it got him into UCLA, and got him drafted #2 in the nation.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
levon wrote:
You know how D'Antoni makes point guards look better than they are? Walton undoubtedly makes them look worse than they are.


He's not a PG in the manner that we're trying to use him and never has been. If we wanted a high ball screen PG we should've just drafted DSJ. It's astonishing to me that they watched him play at UCLA and determined that this is how he should be used.

Fitting square pegs in round holes seems to be common in the Lakers, and not just in terms of players.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

Valid points (IMO) about how they're using him. But we're closing in on 1/3 of the season and the game-to-game inconsistency is maddening. Long run, I think he'll be fine but I'm getting a bit nervous. And at this point, as someone referenced earlier, I can't envision Lonzo ever getting to 40% from 3-point range. It just seems so far off I can't see or even think about it.

One other note that you're not gonna like;
Jayson Tatum's 3 point FG percentage is higher than Lonzo's free-throw percentage. (51.3% to 50%).
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